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Michel
03-11-2003, 05:01 PM
Bonjour tout le monde Hello! this is my first forum not sure how this works ?
let me jump in.You know jazz standar " Flim Flam "3on4 beat
G13 Ab13 G13 Gb13 how do you solo on this ? the best i could find is F blues

Merci Michel

Guni
03-11-2003, 06:56 PM
Hi Michel and welcome to iBreathe.

mmm Flim Flam ... never heard of this one. Who's playing this tune?

2 things that would be good to know:
- so you are saying that it's in 3/4. Does every chord last for one measure? so we have:
| G13 / / | Ab13 / / | G13 / / | Gb13 / / |
- the melody

Nevertheless, it will be hard to use one scale or tonality over all 3 chords. I wonder how you got to F Blues?

Lemme do some analyses:

So, the tunes basically in C, starting on G7, so it's a G mixolydian tune. Thus, we can think of the G7 as the I7 chord, like in a blues.

Ab7 can be seen as the subV7 of I (subV because it is a subsitute for the V7, which is D7. Using tritone substitution we can use Ab7 instead of D7). subVs take Mixolydian #11.

Same with Gb7: it is a substitute for C7. Gb7 also uses Mixolydian #11

And tension 13 that is added to the chords underlines our scale choices.

Our analyses:
G13: Mixolydian
Ab13: Mixolydian #11
Gb13: Mixolydian #11

Still with me? Don't hesitate to ask why .... this answer is straight by the book.

And now some practical stuff ... :) :)

... and a few ideas on how you could approach this progression. Well, first you can go with the straight analyses from above, exchanging mixolydian scales with other dominant scales, like altered.

Next, you can forget about scales and play around with arpeggios, ie playing the chord tones (1 3 5 7 (13)) of the chords, throwing in some chromaticism ...

Now, above we mention that Ab7 substitues for D7 and Gb7 substitutes for C7. If we 'convert' the progression we get:
G7 D7 G7 C7
so exactly the chords of a Blues in G == G Blues Scale.

Just some ideas but I hope they might be useful to you.

Guni

Michel
03-11-2003, 10:38 PM
Merci Guni... Flim Flam was wrote by Mike Wofford And yes one chord per measure the melody sounds weird ( to me ) we play it at fast tempo to make it more fusion the bridge goes
Gmi7/C Fmi7/Bb Em7/A Ebm7/Ab
OK now the chord substitution Major chords substitute relative minor seventh chords susbtitute dominant minor ect ect......
tritone substitution ??????????Helpppppppppp

I got to the F blues trying to play in and out the pattern but i sound more out not much in .Next time i play this tune i will try
G bues

Merci Michel

metaljustice83
03-12-2003, 06:47 AM
sounds like guni's got you covered, but from me all I have to offer is a welcome!

Guni
04-09-2003, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by Michel tritone substitution ??????????Helpppppppppp All right, let's see:

Tritone Substitution

Tritone

The characteristic of a dominant chord sound is attributable to the tritone (interval splitting an octave in two = three whole steps) which exists between the 3rd and 7th of a dominant chord.

Example: G7 = g b d f
tritone is between b (3rd) and f (7th)


Tritone Resolution

The characteristic of dominant resolution is the movement of the two pitches of the tritone to the 1st and 3rd degrees of the target chord.

G7 resolving to C.
b resolves to c
f resolves to e

The root g is resolving down a fifth to c.


Now we can 'invert' the notes without actually changing the tendencies of the tritone notes. Inverting means that the 3rd becomes the 7th and the 7th the 3rd of a new chord:

3rd of G7 = b (cb) == 7th of Db7
7th of G7 = f == 3rd of Db7

Just as the notes of a tritone resolve by chromatic movement, so too may the 5th of the dominant chord resolve chromatically, in our example with G7 the fifth d goes down to db resolving to c.

This altered fifth (db) may become our new root.

So instead of G7 resolving to C we now have Db7 resolving to C.

|Dm7 G7 | Cmaj7 |
|Dma7 Db7 | Cmaj7 |

I hope that helps. I put that together in quite a hurry so lemme know if there's anything else.

Laterz,

Guni

Michel
04-09-2003, 09:51 PM
MERCI

I'l take some time with this one
first thing that went in my mind was A C Jobim songs

Merci
Michel

Michel
04-10-2003, 09:22 PM
Bonjour Guni

What is a Dma7 ? Is it D manor 7 HÉ hé
was just for fun:)

Michel

Guni
04-10-2003, 10:33 PM
Oh well, .... this typo ruining my reputation? :D

Guni