Simple question.

[espm1000]

As I play guitar and do exercises will my max speed of picking with my right hand increase and will it become easier? Right now I can barely make 140 bpm 16ths just picking one note with my wrist.

[Joe Pass Jr]

Yes:)

Just keep at it.

[oRg]

Speed will come with time, practice, and patience. The more you practice the faster it will come basically. Just keep at it.

[smallbusrider]

Just make sure you start off at a slow tempo utilizing scales or repeating patterns...then work your way up. I always found that a climb of a few BPM per week works fine. I'm back at square one after last years right hand problems. It gets sore pretty quick so its gonna take me some time to build up again.

[hummingmusic]

why is everybody so concerned with speed? you're not gonna get paid by the note so make it easy on yourself. find a killer tone, learn some beautiful melodies (santana, gilmour, etc.) and develop a sweet vibrato.

the more you play, the less anybody hears.
the day of the guitar hero are over. after 30 years of being a working guitarist, i've learned that a great rhythmic feel and vast chord knowledge is the best things a guitarist can have in his bag of tricks. a good knowledge of blues licks will get you through any typical gig.

:D

[newamerikangosp]

why is everybody so concerned with speed? you're not gonna get paid by the note so make it easy on yourself. find a killer tone, learn some beautiful melodies (santana, gilmour, etc.) and develop a sweet vibrato.

the more you play, the less anybody hears.
the day of the guitar hero are over. after 30 years of being a working guitarist, i've learned that a great rhythmic feel and vast chord knowledge is the best things a guitarist can have in his bag of tricks. a good knowledge of blues licks will get you through any typical gig.

:D


But if you have a fast wrist and don't use it, cool.

But NEEDING a quick wrist and not having one makes the crowd think you are an amateur.

Listen to fear factory, dino and wolbers have :eek: speed on their picking, but neither play solos on the FF records (well wolbers did one on the latest one).

[Padawan]

I always say that but I think it helps a lot to practise down- and upstroke seperately!

[oRg]

why is everybody so concerned with speed? you're not gonna get paid by the note so make it easy on yourself. find a killer tone, learn some beautiful melodies (santana, gilmour, etc.) and develop a sweet vibrato.

the more you play, the less anybody hears.
the day of the guitar hero are over. after 30 years of being a working guitarist, i've learned that a great rhythmic feel and vast chord knowledge is the best things a guitarist can have in his bag of tricks. a good knowledge of blues licks will get you through any typical gig.

:D
I'd have to disagree. You can call it my false sense of hope or naiveness, but I think that alot of faster music is making a comeback. At least from evidence on MTV2 with them bringing back Headbangers Ball and more and more people picking up guitar. There are more and more bands coming out with fast guitar riffs/licks/harmonies than there were in the 90's. I could name about 10...lol.

Not to mention there's an overwhelming satisfaction when your able to nail a lick correctly and cleanly.

I do have to agree though that a rhythm feel is just as important and should be practiced along side with lead playing. w00t for polyrhythms and asymmetrical time-signatures.

[TheJeffinator]

Seriously - can you give me ONE good reason why it's good *not* to be able to play fast? I'm not saying anyone's getting anywhere if their only claim to fame is being yet another goofball who can play 32nd note triplets over everything they hear, but I don't think there's a good reason not to add speed to the things that you can do well (which already should include tone, vibrato, rhythmic development, and melodic taste). There's no argument as far as metal goes - you need to be fast. Bebop and fusion players need their chops together just because of the high tempos involved. Country pickers are some of the fastest guys you can find and they're probably staying that way. Any kind of modern rock that builds and increases in tension long enough will need to have some speed just to accentuate the tension. Faster music is definitely being brought out more and will probably continue to be brought out (Trivium makes it on the radio and MTV, Children of Bodom have made it pretty big and got higher on the charts than Britney Spears a few months ago, Gigantour was a huge success for something with as little media blabbering as it got (hardly anything compared to Snozzfest these days) and it featured none other than Megadeth and Dream Theater, with Nevermore, Fear Factory, and the Dillinger Escape Plan).

As far as 'the more you play, the less anybody hears', neither I nor anyone I know (this is in metal, but I don't think headbangers are the only ones who do this) ignore or think poorly of a guitarist simply because of good technique - in fact it's just the opposite. If you really think 'a good knowledge of blues licks will get you through any typical gig' then you seriously need to think outside your box and listen to some of the other stuff out there - I think the days are numbered for the guys who just noodle over the same blues stuff that's been going on since before we all were born. I can not name a single good player (including those on your list) who gets *anywhere* just playing the same blues licks as everyone else - in fact, I think it's absurd to look up to Carlos Santana and David Gilmour, who themselves pioneered so many things you could not begin to count them, and not be compelled to try new things and not just copy everyone else's pentatonics. Anyone can think they're hot stuff playing blues, blues, and a bit more blues here and there, but I doubt the audiences will agree, and I know anyone wanting to hear innovation will look at you the same way the headlights look at a deer.

If you look at the work of John Petrucci, Eric Johnson, Michael Schenker, Yngwie Malmsteen, Jeff Loomis, Frank Marino, Randy Rhoads, Paul Gilbert, and of course Eddie Van Halen, you can see very clearly that they can be just as melodic as anyone else you can name and don't sound at all like each other or anyone else out there. You can't find me too many players with better rhythmic mastery than Petrucci, better tone or melodic sense than Eric Johnson, or better vibrato than Schenker and Marino. They also refuse to just do what has already been done too many times entirely.

Not that they know anything about being good players, of course - compared with hummingmusic, who apparently is so famous that nobody has ever heard of him and has ghost-written every good recording book in existence. Seriously - there's no good reason not to want to be able to play more, and it's about bloody time people stopped clinging to the same stuff that's been going on for as long as electric guitars have been in existence. I've never played for an audience that wanted to hear the same licks everyone else played since they were in diapers, and I've never seen a well-respected player bet to where he is doing the same. If the seventies were really all that great we would all have started counting in base fifty so they'd never have to end. If mimicry was really all that great Eddie and Yngwie wouldn't have shaken music up so much. If blues was everything we needed nobody would have come up with jazz or rock. And if espm wanted to play slower, he probably wouldn't have asked a very good question about how to do just the opposite.

Rock On,
The Jeffinator

[hummingmusic]

wow! i didn't mean to upset anybody. but i'm glad somebody's paying attention. i never said it was bad to be able to play fast. i just said it was unnecessary. particularly for someone just starting out. i think my post was in response to a beginner's post. they can get as fast as they want as they progress over the years. i'm sure they'll find as they get out and start working, if that's what they choose to do, that all that speed is not gonna attract chicks to their gigs and chicks attract guys and both of them drink which makes the bar owner happy which keeps them working.
i just think they'd be better off concentrating on being really tight and interesting rhythmically, get a decent blues vocabulary and find a good tone and play less so they can be heard over the rest of the band and not constantly be told by the soundman to turn down.

i'm just sharing my experience. i'm just another guitar player that's played a lot of different kinds of jobs and the things i've mentioned were always the most important things. never speed. that's not saying it's bad. i totally agree with you about the country, and fusion, and bebop guys. how many of us are going to achieve the level of proficiency that our mentors have? few. that doesn't mean you can't make some $ as a working guitarist and a working guitarist doesn't need speed.

i would think that the goal of a professional or just a weekend warrior would be to play to the largest audience he can. the 80's are long gone. i don't see shredders packing stadiums anymore. nor do i see a couple of hundred people in a local club where there's a metal band playing. there are very few that a bar owner will tolerate cuz they're too damn loud and don't draw. i do see what carlos santana has done in the last ten years and dark side of the moon by floyd was on the top 200 billboard chart for about fourteen years. it is timeless and the most memorable stuff is gilmour's silky guitar playing. far beyond any speed demon's wildest dreams.

i can't imagine al dimeola or ingwie malmsteen ever being able to pick what artists they want to work with and have the whole record become a massive hit. CARLOS RULES!!!!

oh yeah... there's a reason people hang on to the same chops generation after generation. cuz they sound good.

[newamerikangosp]

Well, what sounds good to one might sound like poop to others. I listen to death metal, and people at work are like "OMGwhy do you listen to that that is chaos" and I also listen to free form jazz and the same people say "OMG I don't understand it it is chaos". But then these people listen to what ever is on the radio, forget the last favorite band because there is someone else being played on the radio. Shred does attract people. The standard person who has never played guitar in his life loves solo and the speed involved with it. BUT it seems nowadays only musicians who like to hold their nose in the air (or guitarists who cant do it) don't like shred.


Think about this. The Flight of the Bumblebee is a fairly impressive composition, and when played at speed it is can be complicated (especially on guitar, considering it was written on a violin tuned in 5ths as opposed to the guitars 4ths) and is a shred fest.............and it is still being played 100 years later by john petrucci, yngwie, nuno beckencort.

Opinions are opinions.

[Len H]

Speed is just another aspect of playing guitar; if the type of music you play requires it, you should be able to play it. There is this perception that those who play fast are missing something, maybe melody, maybe feeling, and so on. Hummingmusic's opinion of David Gilmour's guitar work as being "silky" on DSOTM is a good description, but going as far as claiming that it is "beyond any speed demon's wildest dreams" is simply not accurate. In fact most of the guitarists he refers to as speed demons also have great vibrato and bend precisely to pitch. Because being able to play fast implies that you have spent considerable time and effort learning your craft, which leads to having command of your instrument. Does anyone think we should re-write Paganini's 24 Caprices, or List's or Chopin's piano works because there is too much speed? Of course not, so why should we neuter Far Beyond the Sun (Yngwie) or No Boundaries (Michael Angelo Batio) or any other piece of guitar music that goes beyond a certain speed limit.

I have to disagree with the statement that a working guitarist's goal should be to play to the biggest audience possible. That may be Hummingmusic's goal, and that is fine, but he shouldn't decide everyone else's goal for them. I would prefer to develop my playing to the highest level that I am capable (my opinion). If I never play to an audience of 100000 that is fine with me. By the way, there will always be an audience for metal, shred, and associated music, maybe not like the 80s, but it is popular in Japan and Germany.

[curiousgeorge]

Satriani threw me a curveball when I say him in Toronto...Usually when he tremolo picks, you can see his wrist pivoting back and forth, very loose, but I saw him do some fast tremolo picking with his wrist locked as well, using his forearm...Weird!! :D

[hummingmusic]

i've spent the last twenty years trying to slow down. i wish somebody would have told me a long time ago what i'm saying in my posts. i'd be a much better player if i'd spent less time learning how to stuff 16 notes into a seconds' worth of music and more time learning how to take one note out for all its' worth or expanding my chordal vocabulary.

just sharing my experience.

just to show that i'm not completely anti-speed. one of my favorite guitar records of all time is deep purple's made in japan. i wore out two lp's stealing blackmore's chops. us old farts didn't have cd's or half speed processors and casette tapes were just starting out. not that you could slow them down. if i wanted to slow down a part i had to hold my finger on the edge of the record just to count how many notes were being played. then let it play at normal speed to hear what they were. HAH!

i guess if you want something bad enough...

everyone turn your metronomes up a notch!

[Len H]

Deep Purple "Made in Japan" is an absolutely great album, and Blackmore's playing on it is superb. The extended solo in "Child in Time" is killer, not only are there parts of it that are at warp speed, but he builds up to the fast runs. The contrast between fast and slow keeps things more interesting than if he were to just start blitzing away. He also switches between using the neck and bridge pickups, the sound alternating between thick and biting. I have to mention that this was recorded in 1972 when very few other guitarists were anywhere close to his level of ability. Highway Star is also one of the all time great songs as well as a great solo.

I am also from the older generation that grew up on vinyl, so I know what it is like trying to figure out hot licks. I was lucky enough to have a 4 speed turntable for a while, one that could be played at 16 2/3 RPM so that everything was at half speed one octave down. At least I stood half a chance of figuring out a few things.

[hummingmusic]

16 2/3 ?!?! are there records that played at that speed? have i forgotten that much or are they really that rare?

i had on old console stereo that ran at 33 and 45 and that was it. i eventually figured out how to plug my kingston electric into it. early on my parents got me this little battery operated amp that had a suction cup pickup. it just wasn't nearly loud enough so i went out to the garage and removed the ac power cord from an old tv we had. more power, more volume, right? i connected the wires to where the battery connected, (i figured that much out) plugged the cord into the wall and turned on the power. it went off like a firecracker and started smoking. my mother came running into my room accusing me of trying to burn the house down.

needless to say... that was the last time i used that amp.

i used to put on highway star from made in japan to get me going in the morning for school. before the song was halfway through i was dancing around the room. the energy level on that record is uncanny. and it actually sounds pretty damn good for a live recording in '72.