Secrets to the Floating hand

[mmchoppers]

Now that I have your attention.....Hello

This is bothering me soo much, I've searched all around the forum, and googled it, but still I can't find the answer!!

My Question, are you ready??

I want to know HOW IN THE WORLD CAN YOU FEEL STABLE AND IN CONTROL WHEN YOUR HAND DOESNT TOUCH THE GUITAR AT ALL? eVERYONE SAYS IT IS THE BEST WAY TO ALTERNATE PICK, but It is soo hard for me. A lot of people compare this situation to PG and how he picks, and I read Eric V's advice on this matter, but the dynamics of this technique are not clicking for me. WHAT I AM ABOUT TO SAY, PLEASE READ CAREFULLY,PLEASE.... EVERY TIME I ASK THIS QUESTION I GET OFF SUBJECT REPLIES..SO PLEASE BE THE FIRST TO ANSWER CORRECTLY. When I say I am frustrated about dynamics, I mean the whole thing. here is a list of exactly what i need help on

1.wrist movement, which joints in the wrist are actually doing the work, also if you were to arch/bend your wrist, how would you accomplish that without being really far away from the strings?

2.right hand placement, and a good thorough explanation on the floating hand, and placement....did i mention that?

3. Not really a question, but more of a statement... When i attempt to tremolo pick or alternate pick with my approach now, the pick feels like its sliding off the string instead of being in control......

I know this was a big post so thanks for taking the time to read it!!!

Talk soon,
MM

[Megus]

Maybe there's a reason for being denied of an answer, because the answer you'll get probably won't satisfy you anyway...

I'll toss my 2 cents and tell you this:

1) I assume you already play with an anchor hand, why the hell would you want to fight this and move to floating hand? the floating hand just doesn't come naturally to many players (including moi.)

2) If this is something you still want to try after all, this is the most straight forward and sincere answer there is - sit down with your guitar, assume your floating hand position and start slowly... stop searching for threads about it and wasting your time on forums while all you have to do is practice, practice, and practice till your hand floats like **** on water. :)

There aren't exact measures of where your hand should be, the main concept is having your hand above the strings at a relaxed position which can't injure you.
I'll bet that after 2 weeks of daily practice, your hand will find its natural place above the strings... but know that this doesn't necessarily means this is the best approach for a hand which chose (it has its own scary power of will) anchoring over floating.

Wishin' a good luck, let us know 2 weeks from now where you stand.

[newamerikangosp]

Well, I can say that 1) I don't really bother with exploring new techniques for picking, minus pick positioning and 2) Remember when you first started playing, everything felt uncomfortable, so any "" you are feeling is just not "knowing" what you are doing (as in you haven't gotten used to it). With time, even the most uncomfortable positions feel natural.

[EricV]

The point of the floating hand is not to have the hand far off the guitar. The point is that it´s the opposite of anchoring. If you listen to Paul Gilbert ( as an example ), he still palm-mutes the strings, which he couldn´t if his hand was off the guitar.
With the floating hand, you may still touch the bridge with your palm, usually with a very light touch. But the point is that you do not anchor. If a patrt of your arm rests on your guitar, and you still have some contact to the bridge, you can have pretty much as much control as you have anchoring.
Hope this helps
Eric

[eastwood]

Watch how players control their picking hand.....Malmsteen anchors his on the volume control, I have seen others use their pinky on the scratch plate or body of the guitar.

I 'float' mine just on the Floyd Rose / Bridge and my other fingers form a loose 'fist'

Daz

[tadejsusta]

Well I can't really explain your problem. But here is i think the best site, where you will be able to find your answer. It's Guitar Principles. I know i also couldn't play without supporting fingers on the pick board.

http://www.guitarprinciples.com/ForumMain.htm

[tadejsusta]

Well I can't really explain your problem. But here is i think the best site, where you will be able to find your answer. It's Guitar Principles. I know i also couldn't play without supporting fingers on the pick board. But now i'm slowly advancing and I'm very content

http://www.guitarprinciples.com/ForumMain.htm

[mmchoppers]

Thank guys for all the great replies! Eric, BTW, thsat did clear up a lot...I guess i float, i just wasnt sure cause sometimes i lightly touch the strings....But cool, although it does hamper my playing on acoustic, ill figure it out, hey while you are looking at this, how do YOU get your wrist to pick fast, which approach do you favor? Tremolo is a tad bit hard for me ...Later

[John Tuohy]

MMchoppers,

I used to anchor my hand on the bridge of my guitar for many years, and it was very comfortable for me. However, when you anchor, first of all you are picking nearer to the bridge of your guitar, and creating a bit of a harsher picking sound. Second of all, you don't have as much volume/nuance control this way.

However, the floating hand seems IMHO, a very difficult way to pick, and especially hard to judge string distance.

So, my solution is this: do both! I have learned to keep my hand above the strings, floating if you will, however having my pinky down LIGHTLY on the pick guard. Your pinky then serves as a height for your hand, but you are not "anchoring" thus combining the best of both worlds.

All you have to do is look at some of the best pickers in the world, and see how they do it. John Petrucci, Frank Gambale, Scott Henderson Al Di Miola, etc. etc. all pick this way. It makes a ton of sense. As a bonus, you can also move your hand back and forth between the bridge and the neck to help shape your picking tone. This makes a lot of difference if you play with a clean tone. I know that Scofield uses this move (moving back and forth from neck to bridge) to emphasise his phrases.

Anyway, try this out and see if it works for you. It took me at least 6 months to get this going, but my right hand chops have never been betterand I have never been more comfortable.

-John 2e

[Skyport]

On a related topic, does anyone notice that Al Di Meola's version of the floating hand technique involves some degree of forearm rotation?

[Finsta]

So, what would you say would be the ideal way to pick - EricV?

[EricV]

There is none. It depends on what works best for you, what feels most comfortable. How could I possibly say which one is best, as there are examples of great pickers for all the different styles of picking. ( like in John´s post )
Petrucci, Malmsteen, Angelo amo do anchor and get amazing results. Paul Gilbert, Buckethead and Thorsten K do use a floating hand approach, and it works great for them I´d say. Steve Morse has a very interesting way of holding the pick and anchoring, and is an amazing picker. Vinnie Moore moves from the elbow ( something a lot of people do consider "wrong" ) yet he gets a lot of mileage from it.
The thing is, and I have said this before, a lot of people ask about what picking style is best, instead of trying to find it out themselves. Sure, with the internet and places like this available, why shouldn´t one ask ?
But... trying out a different picking style ( different from what someone has been using before ) usually is not a thing that you can accomplish in a few days.
Paul Gilbert said that it took him a very long time ( couple of months, if I recall correctly ) to switch from the pickign style he used to have to the one he does use now.
Little details of your technique do have a pick impact, and changing even a little thing like the angle of the pick, type of pick, whether to anchor or not, movement from the wrist, the fingers, arm or elbow.... all those differences might seem small, but can take a long time to adjust to
Eric

[Rizla]

Yeah I agree that there is no ideal way. Look at the difference between Michael Angelo's technique and Paul Gilberts - they couldn't be any more different. I started picking like paul as soon as I seen his videos, and I can't do it any other way now, I tried anchoring just to see if I could do it, and it wasn't going to work, it felt alien, but it obviously works for some people, however looking at Michaels technique, it certainly looks harder..

[AndyPollow]

I dont play as good with floating hand but if you want proof that you can watch Shawn Lanes video Power licks or Power solos - they are both good enough to save money for - I get them free at the library cuz the King County Library in WA has almost anything you can think of. That guy plays really good with floating hand. He is the fastest I have ever heard.

[Finsta]

Eric, what would suggest be the best way to try and pick, right now I'm kinda stuck in a mutation between shifting from anchoring to floating.
HELP!!! I don't wanna mess up my technique anymore:p

[mmchoppers]

hey again, I just wanted to update... first off, ive been having so far good playing days, where im fast and relaxed, but some days i feel off(i think most ppl have those days). I am leaning more towards the floating anchor as i call it, where you anchor pinky lightly and don't rest ur hand on anything so u can freely move. Im really focusing on string skipping and tremolo picking and trying to eventually put them together. When i warm up i usually strum some chords to get my hand loose, and then i start slowly and work my way up to tremolo picking...... For those who are wondering about fast picking, the way i do it is with a combination of the wrist and arm, cause its really tough to get that wrist moving, playing 16ths at 200bpm....the only hard part is string skipping, thats where feel comes in, and you just have to get used to the alternate picking pattern,first slowly, then build up...... hope this helped someone..By the way, thatnk you guys for all the replies!!
Peace

[Lidocain]

Well ... I tried the "floating hand" stuff, just to experiment ...

It requires some time to get used to* , but it's really efficient and powerful ! I feel really comfortable with this technique, it gives (for me) a more precise, quick, and dynamic playing style .:)

* let's say 10-15 minutes in my case, since I had a sort of "anchored-floating" right hand. Fairly quick adaptation to the new technique.

[Austin]

try not to get too cought up with this ****. just do what flows for you. if you really want to get it down then you need some dedication. do it really really slow. trust me it helps to burn the movements down in your brain.

[Lidocain]

Well, that was just an experiment. It works (for me) because I have a right hand position very similar to this "floating hand" stuff since the beginning (7 years of playing).

[joeyd929]

I was watching a few videos of the jazz legend Pat Martino. He clearly picks every note in his style of playing but I noticed that his picking hand does not move the same as lets say, a shred player or even a rock player.

His wrist sort of bounces. IT appears that he is reaching in between the strings with the pick, being careful not to touch the guitar body with the tip of the pick.

Then it seems that he presses the pick against the string he is going to pluck and gently slides up while applying a little light force against the string. When you do this, it causes your hand to bounce up just a little bit over all the strings as you stroke the note. The slight pressure insures you have the string in your possession so as not to miss the note.

Because every stroke puts his picking hand hovering over the strings it is very easy for him to switch strings because after every stroke he is above the strings and can jump to any string.

It appears that he would need a free flowing wrist to do this. I have been trying to practice this approach by being deliberate in trying to execute this style. It does seem to have advantages for string skipping, as I said, because you are always above the strings far enougn away, but still close enough to grab the next note.

[Lidocain]

I'll check some videos of him to see his picking techninque in detail ;) It seems pretty nice.

[joeyd929]

It just seems like for the accuracy and speed he has, his hand does not appear to be anchored, but even if it is, he has a very deliberate way of striking the string.

Pat Metheny picks in a similar manner but tends to use more pull off and hammer on technique mixed in. Martino picks every note with the exception of an occasional quickly used slur..

[Michael. A]

Its hard to get used to man. I went to a new teacher who instructed me in it and it took 3 months to fully change over everything I did. But man is it worth it. Of course, incredibly so. Its not just better for alternate picking but sweep picking and well everything really.

My trick to learning was a mental approach. Change what I call my "comfort zone." The point at which you feel comfortable resting your hand when playing and consciously remember how your hand should be for it to float then tell yourself thats where you feel comfortable. This helped a lot in particular muting strings with my right hand when I'm not playing them. Muting is a very important technique you should do subconsciously when playing. I told myself I should feel comfortable playing with the underside of my hands on the string muting what I wasn't playing and thats how I got good at it.

As well as floating hand and muting you should consider economy of picking. Alternate picking I found only clicked when I stopped looking at what I was doing and remembered just to go up and down no matter what conquering my need to sweep when changing strings and I can play faster because of it.

[joeyd929]

IT seems the best players really don't look as much as maybe an occasional glance.. It seems that I am using my wrist more in an up and down motion, as well as side to side, to get the pick to bounce.

Eric Johnson uses this bouncy sort of picking and he can skip strings so well that when he picks out chord notes with just the pick, you would swear he was fingerpicking.

He does use the index finger to pick for some of the chicken pickin stuff as well. IT's all good, learn whatever you can..

[jade_bodhi]

Well, my. This is a very esoteric discussion. I sort of agree with whoever asked why you would want to move from an anchored technique to a floating technique. What is gained?

But if your dedicated to learning this technique, it seems to me that the difficulty is in integrating the fine motor activity of the hand and fingers with the gross motor activity of the wrist and even perhaps the forearm. That would be a hard balancing act. But it can be done with practice, I'm sure. I don't think there is any silver bullet that will fix it for you; just more practice. I'm sure you don't want to hear that, especially from a rank and file lead player like me.

Good luck.

Miss Jade

[tasdvl9]

A lot of people are interested in developing their alternate picking skills. They feel that if they emulate their idols, they'll be able to be as proficient as they are. It's just not true. If you stick to a dedicated practice routine then eventually you'll find the ideal way to pick for you. This might not be the way Paul Gilbert picks or Steve Morse does but it'll be the way YOU pick. Afterall, playing the guitar should be comfortable. When you are comfortable you'll be able to play more precisely.

I'm guilty of changing my picking habits to imitate my heroes as well. After a while I realized that I wasn't able to play songs I used to play with the "new" way of picking. I mean, I used to play almost every Iron Maiden song with ease with my old picking technique. With the new one, it just fell apart. That's when I realized that why should I change when what I was doing was working all along. I just never really tried to develop my old way. Instead, I changed my picking completely and that's where I went wrong.

Just play the guitar, practice and try to augment your technique. Eventually you'll reach your goals with some dedication and determination.

I just thought this might help someone along the way. Excuse me for indulging a bit.

[Spidervenom]

Just play the guitar, practice and try to augment your technique. Eventually you'll reach your goals with some dedication and determination.

Exactly. Different strokes for different folks. Heck, look at Dave Mustaine. His fingers flail what seems like miles off the fretboard when he plays the opening riff to Holy Wars, but eh, it works.

That being said, I went through the process of developing a new picking technique. I've always used an classical-influenced left hand position, and I was happy with that, but I felt my picking could be better. I moved to the wrist-only floating method, and, like anything, it was harder at first. I couldn't play as well, and so forth.

The important part is that I didn't let myself get put off by the "play what feels natural mantra". After a couple of weeks, once I got over the initial adjustment, my picking ability was totally superior to before.

[Darkman]

Way of The Floating Hand


This I got to try :cool:

[tasdvl9]

Yes, it's a good idea to experiment. I think that if you do decide to change your technique you have to give it ample time. Your body needs to readjust to the new way. I also realized that while the new way of picking didn't exactly work for me, it gave me some insight as to what I needed to do to improve my old way of picking. All in all the experimentation of using various techniques helped me in the long run.

The only advice I can give is to just be aware of your technique. If it's hindering you then devote some time to correct it. If it's not and you feel comfortable with it then develop it.

[tedmaul]

Very much agree with the above. I've been working really hard on my alternate picking for the last two months, and have spent a lot of time in that period experimenting with different ways to pick.

My original way of picking was to anchor my pinky and use a combination of wrist and fingers at slow/medium speeds and then some arm movement as i got faster. This was pretty inefficient, i never really felt in control and couldn't really play at high speeds without it all falling apart.

Over the last two months i've been trying floating hand, without anchoring at all, and picking only from the wrist. I've really stuck at it solidly for the whole 2 months and I've made lots of progress, with much better accuracy and control, but i still found that triplets at around 160bpm+ started to fall apart a bit.

Then just in the last week i decided to try anchoring again, but not in the same way as my original technique - i now anchor my pinky and pick ONLY from the wrist with no finger or arm movement. Bingo!! - i seem to have cracked it! Suddenly i'm clean and accurate with triplets at 200bpm+. I'm over the moon with that level of improvement, though i know there's still plenty of work to be done to get certain sequences and alternate picked arps up to those kinds of speeds.

This combination seems to be the one that works for me, but it's taken this last few months of really working on different ways to pick to let me establish what is actually the best technique for me.

The whole process has really brought home to me how much truth there is in the articles EricV wrote on this subject, and how important it is to take the time to experiment and establish the correct technique for YOU - rather than just assuming the first technique you came accross is the right one or that you should copy a certain way of playing because player x uses it.

[tasdvl9]

That's great, tedmaul. I know for me it's a great feeling knowing all of the hardwork, persistence and sticktoitness is paying off. I used to be amazed at how effortlessly guys like Paul Gilbert, Shawn Lane and BucketHead picked. They make it look easy but not only that, what amazed me the most was they were so consistent. That's when I really sat down and analyzed my own picking technique. During this process I think I must have looked at countless youtube clips of the guys I mentioned above. I was trying to see exactly how they were picking.

Trying to pick like them actually helped me in developing my own way of picking. Now I'm much more comfortable and in control. And yes, I also have a long way to go but now I think I'm on the right track.

[AndyPollow]

I just bought a big stubby 3mm made by dunlop and its seems easier for floating hand because you can push hard into the string and feel it alot with the index and thumb but you wont trip up because its really stiff andd as smooth as glass. I think you should turn up the high end though cuz the smooth material makes a duller tone.