Thumb over the top

[joeyd929]

Just looking for opinions about using your thumb on the bass note and even sometimes 5th string on guitar. Many famous guitarists did this, like Jimi Hendrix, Tal Farlow, Ted Green, Chet Atkins.

It does have it's advantages for some chord types. I know that "Schooled" musicians, especially classical guitarists view this as taboo but honestly, who really cares if it works.

I do use it with discretion but have found that there are some chord shapes where it is actually an advantage. Just looking for opinions on using the thumb over the top..

[silent-storm]

if it allows you to do what you want to do, then it can't possibly be wrong.

Ever use the thumb in front? allows you to stretch half the fretboard.

[tinsmith]

I use it on the top string especially for a bass notes on the F or B as I'm picking & bending the higher string notes.

[paTz0r]

I use it for the F# on a D/F# and similar occasions. Unfortunately my hands are small so I cannot reach the 5th string very easily, or really any notes that are not close to parallel with what my index finger is fretting.

[newamerikangosp]

well man, I can say that if you watch shawn lanes playing and then showed that to a classical guitar player/teacher, they would tell you thats the worst finger positioning ever. As well as vice versa. I don't see anything wrong with it. I saw an old folk singer, HUGE black guy, who could fret with hisfingers AND his thumb and he wasn't even stretching his hand. His hand was that big. But as long as its comfortable for you, it should be fine.

[delicious]

I use my thumb to fret the bass note for some chords that doesnt require a massive stretch likeFmaj7

[joeyd929]

if it allows you to do what you want to do, then it can't possibly be wrong.

Ever use the thumb in front? allows you to stretch half the fretboard.

Yes, actually, I have tried that but have trouble muting. I should try a damper like Stanley Jordan.

[hairballxavier]

Generally I use 3 different types of thumb positions. It's all about an economy of motion IMO. With some stuff you want to use a "classical grip" with the knuckle of your thumb on the back of the neck and the elbow much lower than the neck to give alot of leverage for barre chord positioning.

Other times I use the "broomstick" or "jackoff" grip as some like to call it. That's where the palm is almost on the back of the neck and the thumb sticks out over or wraps around the top of the neck and the elwow is a bit higher. The advantage of this grip is that your first thumbknuckle acts as a pivot for bends and other types of articulations with your other fingers. Plus you can also use your thumbknuckle to either mute or fret the 6th string. It can clamp on there like a vice-grip. With this type of grip the first thumbknuckle, over the top of the neck, the second thumbknuckle on the side of the neck and the index finger work the same way as locking pliers and give a firm base for the other three fingers to articulate with hammers, bends, and pulloffs.

Then another way to use the thumb is to actually use it as a barre while the third index finger knuckle acts as the pivot point and the elbow sticks up in the air. I generally only use that if I need to reach the 5th string with my thumb.

[reich shock]

I had the privlege of taking lessons from Ted Green for a little while and saw him use the thumb over the top while playing bass lines, rythm and harmony at the same time. If the thumb over top is good enough for ted it is good enough for me!

[AyKay]

Now, I'm one of those classical guitar pricks (who plays on a wider neck, mind you), but here's my $.02 - When your thumb is over the top of the neck, it decreases the mobility of your other fingers. Also, with a well-stretched left hand, you shouldn't even need to use your thumb. For simple chord strumming work, the lack of mobility isn't that consequential.

The difference between neck sizes makes a huge difference though. Hanging the thumb over the neck (think Becker) while you're playing on the twig that most electric necks are isn't really that big a deal, since that's where your thumb wants to be naturally anyways. Actually fretting with your thumb is inefficient 99% of the time though, and technique is simply the art of playing as efficiently as possible. Unless you've got some pretty big hands, using your thumb to fret notes will just about always put your wrist in unnatural positions and create stress in your hand. Classical guitarists (generally speaking) have to worry about this more because we usually play unaccompanied and with a bit more scrutinous audience, so there's a bigger emphasis on eliminating as much bodily tension as possible.

[joeyd929]

Now, I'm one of those classical guitar pricks (who plays on a wider neck, mind you), but here's my $.02 - When your thumb is over the top of the neck, it decreases the mobility of your other fingers. Also, with a well-stretched left hand, you shouldn't even need to use your thumb. For simple chord strumming work, the lack of mobility isn't that consequential.

The difference between neck sizes makes a huge difference though. Hanging the thumb over the neck (think Becker) while you're playing on the twig that most electric necks are isn't really that big a deal, since that's where your thumb wants to be naturally anyways. Actually fretting with your thumb is inefficient 99% of the time though, and technique is simply the art of playing as efficiently as possible. Unless you've got some pretty big hands, using your thumb to fret notes will just about always put your wrist in unnatural positions and create stress in your hand. Classical guitarists (generally speaking) have to worry about this more because we usually play unaccompanied and with a bit more scrutinous audience, so there's a bigger emphasis on eliminating as much bodily tension as possible.

Actually, I figured that classical guitarists would feel that way and I do agree with the philosophy. However, as far as mobility goes, there are certain situations where I use the thumb over the top and at that particular moment, mobility of remaining fingers is not an issue because the piece or chord I am playing does not require any other notes.

I do agree that it inhibits mobility but my honest opinion on all this is that if Beethoven, Bach, Handel, or any of them "stuck to the rules" do you think they would have writtin the music that they wrote?

I highly doubt it. There are situations where using the thumb over the top (not on nylon string guitar) has advantages.

One example is some of the chords that Lenny Breau formed to do octave harmonics, also Ted Green. To play these chords without the thumb on top is virtually impossible (unless you use your nose on the Bb) (ha ha).

Fretting over the top is lots of fun and does give you an entire different perspective.

[svendo]

Hi Folks,

IMO using the thumb on the fretboard can be very usefull, especially if you want to play a rythem/lead combination on one guitar. i like the following shape for example: Amin7: 5 x 5 5 5 5
Starting with this shape you have a nice minor chord with a jazzy taste, and still three fingers left to play a melody and vary the chorr by adding notes (and also enough power left, because your index finger only presses four strings but a six string barre) you may vary it like this:

Amin7/9: 5 x 5 5 5 7
Amin7: 5 x 7 5 8 5
A7b13 5 x 7 6 8 8

and many others... just start with the 5 x 5 5 5 5 and play around with your fingers. theese chords are also good in combination with a basic shape for example in Dmin: Dmin7 x 5 x 5 6 5 - need to stretch the thumb a bit, bat also two fingers left to play around with.

even if youre just strumming some chords i like the sound of only four strings, especialy if you play together with some keys. try these shapes:

Amin: 5 x 7 5 5 x
Amaj: 5 x 7 6 5 x

greets

sven

[Zatz]

Usually I thumb fret 2 bass strings on my acoustic but if it's D drop tuning the thumb grip can even span over 3 upper strings when I want to play a power chord - the rest of the fingers are free to play variations over it. I've got a small hand but my guitar neck is thin enough to let me do that.