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pkutcher
03-29-2003, 12:20 AM
Harmonic minor scale: 1 - 2 - b3 - 4 - 5 - b6 - 7
Example: Key Of A: A - B - C - D - E - F - G# - A

What major key is the A harmonic Minor in? Since it is still A minor, would it be considered C major? Because A is the sixth of C?
Peter

the1andonly
03-29-2003, 02:12 AM
no. If something is in the key of A harmonic minor, it's in the key of A harmonic minor. Harmonic minor and natural minor are two seperate scales and should be treated as such.

szulc
03-29-2003, 12:25 PM
The harmonic minor is a modified version of the natural minor with the 7th tone raise to give you a 'leading' tone and in addition to make the v7 chord V7. V7 to i is a much stronger cadnece than v7 to i.
The melodic minor is the dorian mode with the 7th tone raised to give a leading tone and to make the v7 to i a V7 to i.

The melodic minor could aslo be thought of as a parallel minor in that you only need lower the 3rd to make it from the Ionian mode.

Bongo Boy
03-31-2003, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by szulc
The melodic minor is the dorian mode with the 7th tone raised... to give a leading tone and to make the v7 to i a V7 to i.You ALWAYS seem to provide what for me is a new perspective. I was comfortable thinking of melodic minor as Aeolian mode (or natural minor) with 6 & 7 raised, vs what you just stated. As usual, I have to get out pencil and paper to understand what you're saying--and to verify that the two structures are identical.

Are there cases where there's an advantage to choosing one perspective over the other?

Michel
03-31-2003, 11:48 PM
Bonjour

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The melodic minor is the dorian mode with the 7th tone raised
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Hey Bongo Boy I had the same reaction
I went WHAT IS JAMES talking about ?

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Are there cases where there's an advantage to choosing one perspective over the other?
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That would be an interesting reply from you James

Merci

Michel

szulc
04-01-2003, 01:05 AM
It all really depends on the modulation you are trying to achieve.
If you are playing along in a Major Key and the tonality switches to parallel minor then b3 to Melodic is the safest bet. If you are playing along in a major key and the tonality modulates up the the 2nd then Dorian and then to Possibly Melodic via #1.

You can actually create an interesting (incomplete) cycle by playing a Major Scale then raising the root then mentally re-number from the second degree and raise the third. Now you are back in a major scale and you can continue this up, through the whole tone scale of roots. Conversely you can flat the 3rd of a major scale then flat the 7th now once again you are in a major scale and you can continue this down, through the whole tone scale of roots.

CDEFGAB> DEFGABC#> DEF#GABC#> EF#GABC#D#
or
CDEFGAB> CDEbFGAB> BbCDEbFGA> BbCDbEbFGA

From a classical theory standpoint, the melodic minor is created by rasing the seventh degree in the dorain mode to create the strong V7- i cadence.

I almost always use the melodic minor from the dorian mode.

This is really an issue of reduction, what is the simplest way to create a melodic minor? Raise the root and start on the 2nd degree or lower the 3rd. Any other method causes you to need to change at least two notes, and therefore is a more distant relationship.

Michel
04-01-2003, 04:14 PM
Bonjour James

OK we are now far ....far from this post subjet but

I would think about the melodic minor as a major scale with a minor 3rd But doing this i had a "tension"between the thinking and the playing (don't ask me why)
So i tried ! Same scale same fingering thinking dorian fits me better Hé hé....

Merci James

Michel