Teaching yourself - how far can we develop?

[juliac]

I started a thread recently about my left hand guitar technique and i found the response really really helpful so i want to pose a different question. Although i know many musicians and creative people i dont get the chance to sit and talk to them about my issues - life is too busy. Talking through is part of learning. so here goes.....

I am vocalist, that is a major strength for me. I am also a songwriter. I tried to find a guitarist to work with so that i could get out and sing and be heard but it just didnt happen so I decided to learn the guitar. As I learned the basics, songs started to come through. Now I am at a stumbling point. I feel that what i can currently do on guitar limits me - how can i explain this? I am bored of the chords, I am bored the progression, I am bored of the rhythm. I want to learn how to play this damn thing so that I can fully express myself, use my voice and songwriting skills to my full potential. The best way i learn is by watching people but my friends are too busy to sit and jam with me, we're not teenagers anymore and Ive taken this up as a mature person. Ive had lessons but i got irritated by teachers teaching me songs i didnt want to play. People have said to me just sit and play, listen to music you like and try to work out what they are doing. How can i work out what they are doing when I dont know the techniques???? - so here is my question.

To what extent can we learn how to manipulate the guitar without having lessons and without learning from other people. Is it possible, with just the basics in guitar playing, to teach yourself different technques - i mean can you discover your own techniques. what I am trying to say - in way, I would like to look at this instrument as if I had never seen it before and no-one had ever discovered it - is it possible to become a strong guitarist that way or do I need to go through structured lessons to be a varied player.

I've sung ever since i can remember. I didnt have lessons, i just sung (mimicked people) - it was a natural process. When I sing i just express myself, i dont think about what i am doing - i just do. People are often blown away and they ask how i do it. I want the guitar to be like that. Is it possible - tell me your experience.

[Danster]

I've sung ever since i can remember. I didnt have lessons, i just sung (mimicked people) - it was a natural process. When I sing i just express myself, i dont think about what i am doing - i just do. People are often blown away and they ask how i do it. I want the guitar to be like that. Is it possible - tell me your experience.

Some will disagree, but I suspect it is much more common for someone to be naturally good at singing than to be naturally good at the guitar.

However, if you want your voice to be the star, and the guitar to be there for support, I think you don't need much in the way of guitar skills. With relatively modest guitar skills, damn good songs can be written.... think James Taylor, Neil Young, Bob Dylan, Donovan. Admittedly, even with those guys, sometimes I wonder for example how they came up with "that chord" which fits the song perfectly.

I suspect finding the right teacher could help you a lot though. Good luck!

[Malcolm]

In the old day’s mountain music, clawhammer banjo, etc. was taught the way you learned to sing by listening and watching others. In the old day's the young were expected to learn music the same way they learned how to plow the fields. By watching Dad do it and keeping out of the way -- Mountain music evolved because of this as everyone did develop their own way / style.

I lean toward what Danster said in the other post -- songwriter, lyrists, vocalists and musician – which is the most important in developing songs?

IMO – when songwriting your musician skills can take a back seat.
When performing your songwriting skills can take a back seat.

Separate the two – Sounds like you want to develop your playing skills - how you accomplish this is up to you - I have no idea what your schedule looks like. You may have to do like those old time banjo players. It’s a matter of priorities.

[Jed]

It sounds like you are bored with you guitar playing, . . time to hit the woodshed.

If you are talented enough and dedicated enough there's no limit to how far you can go but you're fighting an uphill battle without lessons and without others to learn from. Did you teach yourself how to drive? Did you teach yourself Algebra?

You may want to consider working through a bunch of the articles on this site. If you play with a pick - learn how to use your fingers, if you play with fingers - learn how to use a pick, learn about harmony, learn to use the whole fret-board, learn your arpeggi, discover new chord voicings and new progressions, learn to voice-lead, learn to comp, learn lots of new material, learn to sing through your guitar. There's more than enough music on any fret-board to last anyone a lifetime.

Lastly, unless you are a savant (in which case you would not be asking for advise) you would be well served by finding a good instructor. Music is a very deep and intricate language, imagine how difficult it would be to learn to speak if you never had exposure to other people to talk to/with?

[juliac]

Ive got a lesson tomorrow with a new tutor.

i think what happens is i get overwhelmed because i realise there's so much to learn and not much time and yes i appreciate we are always learning and people who have played for 20 years are still learning but you know I'm still talking about the basic technique i reckon. You see I want to know more chords, know the fretboard, be able to play different rhythms, know scales, try lead guitar bits and I only have 1 hour each evening and a few hours at the weekend and I think god where do i start. I go to these open mics and i see younger people doing amazing things I think, god how am i going to catch up. I listen to music and i think i want to play that but i dont know where to start. I have lessons and it starts fine and then the tutor starts doing things with me that i dont want to do and the lessons becomes less and less what i want to do and can end up being so rushed that i wonder why i am paying them. it just gets overwhelming.

anyway.................the crux of it is that it takes time and I need to allow that and thats something i find hard to do.

i'm going to look at some dvds i think.

x

[Jed]

Keep in mind that as a student you won't necessarily have the perspective to know what you should learn or in what order. There is a lot to learn and it (the learning / understanding) doesn't happen in any single event but rather from a collection of events (and old-fashioned hard-work) over significant time. Even after you learn something, there is still time and practice required to internalize / master it.

You don't need to know it all . . you just need to know (in the abstract) more than you can play so you'll always have things to work on.

Lastly, if your new tutor is worth their salt, they'll have you work on your weaknesses to make you a stronger and more well-rounded player. Working on stuff you suck at is never fun but it is often the best way to improve. Embrace your weaknesses until they become strengths. Use your level of discomfort as a road sign to guide you to those things that will help you make the greatest strides in shortest time.

We're all in the same boat - so much to learn and never enough time. But if the goal is one of personal growth and expression then every minute spent in that pursuit is precious and well worth the effort.

cheers,

[Swede]

The only decent thing I could share is ...

While having lessons ... jam along to your favorite records
and song ... and ... jam ALOT !

Back when I was 14, I started to take acoustic guitarlessons,
but at that time I was more interested in playing basketball
outside with my friends, so I lasted 2 lessons, didn't learn anything
besides slam dunks.

Then a few years later I picked up the guitar again,
bought a cheap'o stratcopy an amp and a distortionpedal
and started to learn songs I liked.

Ok, I didn't really learn them note for note, I simply played
what I thought sounded close to what I heard. My knowledge
was quite limited.

Then one day, I had a music-class at school, and got to see
some friends play Death Metal. This opened new doors for me.
The speed and the brutality amazed me so I started copying what
I saw and it seems like those days opened my ears alot more :D

Still today, if I hear a song, a solo or a riff the binds me ...
I don't give up until I have the basic structure of the song
nailed down, then I can start work on the details.

My point being ... listen to as much and as different styles of
music as possible ... whether it's the most brutal metal or the
softest jazz. Don't limit yourself.

[juliac]

cool......i am taking all of this on board. This is very encouraging. Especially, embracing weakness and using as a guide - thats fantastic!

the one thing i dont do is listen to music - can you believe that. When i was a kid i would be in my room listening to all my records - be it madonna, michael jackson, Grease (sung this a million times)......I'd sing those songs over and over and over and over - i guess in the same way that you played your guitar over and over and over........instead of working on technique my focus was about feeling - getting inside the songs and that made me feel fantastic. I guess this developed my voice, i didnt know it at the time. I had a difficult time as a kid and this was my release. The guitar is a different challenge but i get the feeling it is a very worthwhile and i think its the channel for my songs. When i put my fingers on my strings and start to move the ideas begin, its as if it triggers feelings and I begin to open up. Its quite incredible. This is why i want to learn other techniques and chords because i want to see what happens. Its exciting as long as i dont get caught up in right or wrong.........

[Michael. A]

Best way to progress when you are like that is to stop playing. Instead get some highly recomended music that you haven't heard before and just listen to it properly with your full attention and try and mimic or use the ideas. I find I'll be improvising and repeat some idea I heard but didn't practice and find the sound of something I'm doing has come into my playing without my attention on it. It all goes in there somewhere if you listen properly and you'll come out a better player.