Hitting a wall

[elvisjer]

Hey guys. Ive been playing for about 11 years...since I was 9. I play mostly rock in a couple bands, including lead in a rock worship band (not the mellow stuff). I am good, people say I am good, great even. BUt as most guitarists are, you never feel like you are that good. I can play the first editions of major minor and pentatonic scales fast enough to rake pick in a millisecond, i can improvise every known technique of these. But what now? I feel like when im doing a longer solo im stuck. I sit down to practice but have no idea where to go now so i just simply dont practice anymore (blush). What have you guys done?

[Kinoble]

I am good, people say I am good, great even.

I can play the first editions of major minor and pentatonic scales fast enough to rake pick in a millisecond, i can improvise every known technique of these

Sorry bud, but this just doesnt add up. You havnt stated what you think is wrong-creatively, lack of idea's etc. When you say you have nowhere to go, is that what you mean, loss of idea's?

EDIT: welcome to the forums as our newest member. :)

Ben

[elvisjer]

Thanks for the welcome. I guess what im saying is, I can rip off a jimmy page riff like gold but I'm still ripping off a jimmy paige riff. I feel like in between "riffs" im not doing anything except hitting notes for fillers sake. To a non-guitarist im good, but to a trained guitarist there is room to be worked on. I can run through the position 1 scales, but then im playing scales. I have trouble turning this into a melodic solo, such as santana--to be cliche. Maybe I'm not making sense..so ill sum it up.

How do you guys move from knowing the scales by heart to playing a melodic solo?

[Kinoble]

This is tricky. We only have 12 notes to play with in music, and making them sound different to everyone else can be hard going.

Scales are great beacause you will often be playing within a key or keys, and scales give you a selection of notes to play with that will sound 'good' or 'in' key with the piece.

Transfroming running up and down scales into coherent, well written and melodic music can be quite different. Try playing fragments of scales, forwards, backwards, using legato, alternate picking, limiting yourself to 3 notes and making melodic phrases.

Actually, now that ive mentioned phrasing, may i just say theat personally, i think phrasing is one, if not the most important aspect of playing melodically, that along with note choice and rythm (which is a by-product of phrasing or vice versa).

Concentrate on phrasing your notes on the offbeat, mix up note values 16ths, 8ths, quarters etc. That shouls lend your playing a more melodic approach.

Let your music breathe-put in some rests now and again.

Learn your modes if you dont know them, so you will have seven different ways of playing the same scale, which inturn may yield different phrases/note choices.

Finally, try playing whats in your head. This can be hard at first, and is thought of as the 'ultimate' im playing melocially, but give it a go. Hum a phrase and repeat it on guitar to help you break out of certain patterns etc.

Hope this helps,

Ben

[leppard81]

Kinoble pretty muched summed it up; but let me add some more:


VIBRATO/PHRASING:
Try different kinds of vibrato, short, long, wide, narrow, agressive etc.... For inspiration DO NOT only listen to guitarists. I recommend: Sam Cooke, James LaBrie(Dream Theater), John Coltrane, SRV, Charlie Parker, Celine Dion,.... Listen to them or chose your own favourite artists - compare them, have a look on how their approaches/sound differs. Try to find a song covered by some of them and compare their approach. This can also be done for melodies, phrasing, attitude. It helped me ALOT!


LESS IS MORE!
If you have trouble being creative; limit yourself! Remember: The easiest melodies are the best ones. A well thought-out 4-note melody is worth gold, whereas playing too many notes may destroy the momentum. Everything that can´t be hummed isnt a real melody...........;)


ATTITUDE!
Play it like you mean it! No, dont just pretend, really MEAN it. If you´re not confident about the melodies you play the listener won´t be either. Put as much effort in that one note your playing right now as in your 16th note-at-200-bpm-run that follows that note. Show the world its not just another guitarist, thats playing here, but YOU!



Hope this helps,

ALEX :)

[Kinoble]

ATTITUDE!
Play it like you mean it! No, dont just pretend, really MEAN it. If you´re not confident about the melodies you play the listener won´t be either. Put as much effort in that one note your playing right now as in your 16th note-at-200-bpm-run that follows that note. Show the world its not just another guitarist, thats playing here, but YOU!

Oh yeah, like Alex says, make every note count equally, so when you join them together it forms a meaningful whole. Good point Alex!

Ben

[fastvfr]

It sounds like I have just the opposite 'issue'!

I have learned to play solos in all keys and using all scales, and can construct some phrases I think are drop-dead gorgeous.

But I haven't really nailed too many 'licks' yet.

Sure, I warm up using the easier, famous riffs but I can't play an entire song that someone else wrote....and I'm not sure if I really want to, at least at this point.

All I did is grabbed a few backing tracks and practiced soloing over those chords and riffs until I was happy with what I was hearing.

FWIW, I have had a guitar for less than six months.

SO...

I guess you have to learn to improvise and I need to learn to play covers.

It's always something, isn't it?!?

Anyhow, best regards and good luck!

[Romp]

To a non-guitarist im good, but to a trained guitarist there is room to be worked on.

Pa-CHOW, you've nailed your problem right on the head there. Sounds to me like what you need is a good teacher. I played without formal training (I don't believe in the term "self-taught") for 16 years and, about a year ago I started taking formal lessons. I was already "good" in that, just as you described, people would see me play and say, "holy crap man, you're awesome!"

But I knew just how limited I was, and how small my understanding of music and how it relates to the fretboard, really was. David changed all that for me and opened me up to a world in guitar that I knew existed but had no idea how to tap into. And now I'm easily twice the guitarist I was in a fraction of the time, and oh how I dearly wish I'd decided to take lessons 10, even five years ago. I'm an instructor myself now.

I just had a chance to rock out last night with a local guitar hero (lead guitarist for a popular band) and the boy is good. Left (fretting) hand I could keep up with him easily, but right-hand he's just too blazin' fast. And he had some really mean licks. But when we started experimenting with different, non-standard chord progressions, and I would say something like "play a D7 shape on the tenth fret" he had no clue what I was talking about and had trouble with improvisation. Eventually he would find the sound and it was "off to the races" again, but you could tell that there were big gaps in his musical ability due to his lack of theory knowledge. He's a great guy and a spectacular guitar player, but you can see where he's trapped in certain boxes. This may be why someone of his physical ability is playing in a local band versus a national act. Maybe, maybe not.

I would say go out and find yourself an instructor who is truly passionate about music and teaching people. Pay her/him fairly and practice your buttox off. Go home and use the information s/he teaches you to work stuff out on your own and try explaining it to other people so you know you truly understand it.

The benefits are immeasurable.

[Blutwulf]

Get a pre-recorded rythym track, or some device which can produce one (your old Casio will do).

Step 1) Record yourself vocally creating a solo over the backing track. "Doo do wat waWW beedoobeedoo," etc. Really. I am not kidding.

Step 2) Learn your vocal thing note-for-note on your instrument.

There you go. It is as simple as hitting "Record" and then improvising. If you have a hard time coming up with an improvised "de badda wow" piece, then I have some bad news for you... you have not been actually improvising on your instrument. You have been simply stringing together memorized bits of fingering and joining them by key center. Sure, it is improv in a way, but it is lacking in what you are seeking.

Not a huge problem, though. You will be amazed at how quickly and easily you will adapt to recording your vocal improv. You will also discover that you have a style, influences, and the works. You will feel much better about yourself. You will, and this is the best part, create your own licks. As you learn your personally-built riffs on your guitar, you will also triple the speed at which you can learn others' work. You will, to be blunt, become good.

(Note to those actually trying this at home: Hard to vocally do a chord or two-note bends? Well, nobody'll hear this but you, and you know when you're in your car doing the solo from your favorite song you fudge through it, right? You'll hear it, recognize it, and know what you meant when you play back the track. Same for hyperfast trills. You are not meant to sound good doing this. If you do sound good doing it, market that badboy.)

[Romp]

And I would very much like for people to post their "dwee dooboodeedooboo" recordings when finished. The comedic value alone would be staggering! :D

[hairballxavier]

Hey guys. Ive been playing for about 11 years...since I was 9. I play mostly rock in a couple bands, including lead in a rock worship band (not the mellow stuff). I am good, people say I am good, great even. BUt as most guitarists are, you never feel like you are that good. I can play the first editions of major minor and pentatonic scales fast enough to rake pick in a millisecond, i can improvise every known technique of these. But what now? I feel like when im doing a longer solo im stuck. I sit down to practice but have no idea where to go now so i just simply dont practice anymore (blush). What have you guys done?

Perhaphs this a stupid question, but..

What is a "first edition" of a scale?

Do you mean first position?

Because if you got enough techique and feel down from playing that long and know how to get the right timber for Jimmy Page (Rock/Blues) riffs perhaps you should get to know the scales in all the positions.

I mean, I know alot of players that can jam all day in 1 position, and sound great doing it. But I'm not one of those players. I hate being "trapped in a box" so to speak. I need to roam the fretboard alot to really get creative or I end up feeling stuck.

Do you know your scales all the way up and down the neck?