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metalmike06
12-12-2006, 08:39 PM
Well just today, I got in a big fight with my mom. Apparently she wants me to go to college and be a dentist, or something very professional, like my dad. Yet, I am getting really committed to my guitar, wanting to teach, make a living out of it whatever the job may be. However, she insists that I will just end up realizing guitar and music is stupid and I need to do something that makes more money. What she doesn't know is that there are more career options that make a good living other than just trying to be a rockstar (because that's really what she thinks my aim is, although I wouldn't mind being big, its just very...hard to reach you know? I want to be a session player, teacher, audio engineer, whatever I decide to go for).
I don't want to get mushy or drag on about personal life here. But what I don't want to end up happening is...I do what my parents tell me to do, and I end up being miserable later on, just making money but not really...having any fulfillment. My parents tell me guitar would be an okay "hobby", but...I am more than just a hobbyist. It's all I do. I just couldn't put any passion into any profession outside of music, as cliche as it sounds. Money is not the most important thing in my life. UnfShe just doesn't get the message that there are so many CAREERS with it out there outside of just being a hopeless performer). Unfortunately this happened to my dad. My grandpa told him "you have to be a doctor, or dentist, because they make good money, thats very important". Despite my dad's wishes, he did what his dad said, went on to be a dentist, and is stuck miserably with a job he really doesn't like (trust me it shows), and as well stuck with a money-grubbing materialistic b*tch of a wife who just wants his money. I am NOT letting that happen to me.
Don't get me wrong I totally understand money is important later on in life, obviously if you want to raise a family and that stuff, but there's more than just that you know? I don't wanna sound too cliche here but..I think I just did, :p
Sorry if I dragged on and got kinda personal there, I am just venting.
But do any of you young musicians have any similar situations? What do you older musicians think about this kinda thing? (obviously I figured you'd have some insight because you've probably got kids and stuff that might be experiencing similar uncertainty in life).
Still confused
Mike

EDIT
Just to clear some stuff up - I'm actually in college right now (at a community college). I'm taking a few classes, music theory, economics, english, math, the basics (it's my first semester). It's going okay. I'm just talking about in the future, she just doesn't want me to do music jobwise at all. It's totally her assumption that any music job outside of rockstardom doesn't make enough money to make a living off of. I am wanting to get a degree in music education right now or transfer to another school and do music business (I say right now because obviously my mind might change). Really it's all totally undecided right now. There is other stuff I'm considering too. She's just...I dunno...And yes I told her I have other interests, but still, she is just expecting that I get a business degree or something like everybody else. Although I'm not saying that's a bad thing or I'm trying to be rebellious or anything like that...I just have absolutely no interest in business and don't want to spend the rest of my life being a businessman, you know what I mean? Maybe I will chage my mind in the future, but, I doubt it. All this stuff probably seem pretty childish right now but hey, thoughts are thoughts.

jade_bodhi
12-12-2006, 09:46 PM
No offense to you or your mom, but it seems to me her reasoning is based on fear of the future. I know a lot of parents are this way: they don't want their children to follow a dream and then wake up one day disappointed or, even worse, bitter. But I've never known anyone who followed her dream and was bitter if it didn't work out. The only bitter ones or disappointed ones or disgruntled ones are the ones who gave up the dream and settled for something that they didn't really have their heart in.

Your mom must have your best interest in mind; I wouldn't doubt that. But she has a narrow view of what is possible. I don't make much money with my music, certainly not enough to live on, but I am a professional, and I don't regret a minute of time I spent pursuing my dream.

Jade

Jason7
12-12-2006, 11:48 PM
While I don't agree with her view that guitar or music are "stupid", your mother is right in that you need something stable to fall back on. While it's true that there are many facets to music other than rock-stardom, there are no gurantees. Also as is painfully evident, ability doesn't always matter, as a lot of it is trend/image driven these days.

Never give up on your music, but do yourself a favor and have something else in place also. That will actually help your musical aspirations by affording you the ability to make a decent living, and giving you peace of mind about pesky things like finances, etc. while working on your music.

Good luck!

Jason

widdly widdly
12-13-2006, 12:54 AM
University is a great place to get a degree, it's also a great place to..

1.) Meet other musicians and get a band together
2.) Get paying gigs easily
3.) Build up an audience
4.) Get paying jobs teaching music
5.) Skip classes and play guitar all day
6.) Move out of home and still have your parents pay for it...leaving more time and money for guitar

Despite what people tell you, studying full time at university is really not very demanding. Unlike working full time, studying will leave you loads of time to work on your guitar playing and develop your musical career. It's also an awesome place to indulge in recreational drugs and experiment sexually with hot chicks. You would be stupid to miss out on that.

It sounds like you are pretty lucky to have parents that will support you getting an education. Most people can't afford that.
________
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hafftaplay
12-13-2006, 02:16 AM
listen to mom. get an education, degree. in anything you are interested in.

we all know she is right. don't be a 1 trick pony.

music degree? BA? MBA? teaching degree?

queen has the most degrees for a band. (last i heard)drummer has a DDS?, brian a doc in astronomy etc.

drugs are passe' :( , women are cool, :D

joeyd929
12-13-2006, 02:54 AM
listen to mom. get an education, degree. in anything you are interested in.

we all know she is right. don't be a 1 trick pony.

music degree? BA? MBA? teaching degree?

queen has the most degrees for a band. (last i heard)drummer has a DDS?, brian a doc in astronomy etc.

drugs are passe' :( , women are cool, :D

I didn't go to college and at age 46 I only make 35 thousand. It sucks because I have reasonible talent but I don't have a pot to pee in when it comes to affording all the cool equipment that would be great to have.

If I had struggled through college instead of doing drugs and partying, I would be a decent guitar player AND have the equipment I could really use. At least this Christmas I finally got up the money to buy a PRS korean knock off of the soapbar series.

This isn't about equipment so moderators, don't get your underwear in a bunch, I only mentioned equipment because it was relevant to the comment so please don't delete my post, thanx.

joeyd929
12-13-2006, 02:59 AM
On the other hand, my parents were always supportive. At age 13 my parents took me and a friend to see Alice Cooper and ZZ top, back in 1973. My mom and dad came with us. They also took us to see Deep Purple in 1974.

My folks always encouraged me to play guitar and let me BLAST my stereo. I guess the fact that my dad was a square dance caller and always played music kind of made things easier because he was always playing music too.

Sometimes I think all that squaredance music that I listened to from age 3 had some sort of influence on my playing to some degree. If your parents don't approve of your playing you have to make the decision for yourself as to how you want to handle it. But go to college, I personally would not want to be a dentist, but maybe a music major or computer programmer. But hey, dentists make bank....if you dont' mind sticking your fingers in people's disgusting mouths.....Good luck..keep playing..

UKRuss
12-13-2006, 08:35 AM
It's just a fact of life I'm afraid.

When you're young you don't want their advice and when you get older you question them about why they didn't give you enough advice.

I* think it's pretty typical that the advice should be very specific and I think this is actually wrong.

eg, the advice of going to college is good for all the reasons everyone has already given, but going to do a degree or become something because your parents see you as that is wrong IMO. You have, and really should, do what you want to do, but do it at college!

The biggest mistake I know in my peers is that they did the wrong degree and they did it becasue it was what their parents expected.

Believe, what your parents wanted and why doesnt matter as much when you're 40 so suck it up for now and compromise and negiotiate. (something I'm afraid teens are not very good at, it's in the hormones you see).

Yes Mum I want to go to College I see the benefit in that but I don't want to be a dentist. My interests are...etc.

Even better that that pick something you enjoy as well as being good at!

Blutwulf
12-13-2006, 11:24 AM
What do you older musicians think about this kinda thing?
Listen to your mother.

Also, I have a newsflash for you - it is a hobby. Perhaps it isn't as unobtrusive a hobby as stamp collecting or as uninspiring as etymology, but it is a hobby nevertheless. Screwing yourself out of a future in the name of a youthful passion is, while hardly rare or new, not the wisest course one can take. If you are unable to find out a way to have both hobbies and consequential development, then you are looking at one element incorrectly.

Should you ever derive income somehow from your hobby, it in no way makes it no longer your hobby. Sadly, many people who have a passion for their hobby see it later turned into just a job. Some eventually come to loathe what was once a hobby. Some, happily, make a living from their hobby and never lose their passion for it.

(Every word I said above can be applied to: painting, sculpting, guitar playing, writing, skateboarding, surfing, baseball, etc. Get an education, Sparky. Get a career, and then become the next Yngwie J. Maalmsteen.)



(The "J." is to differentiate him from all the other "Yngwie Maalmsteens." I guess.)

joeyd929
12-13-2006, 11:41 AM
Off the subject a little, I grew up in an Italian family and although it didn't happen to me, I saw and heard of many Italian mothers that wanted at least one of their sons to be a priest.

That is a personal thing, can you imagine becoming anything that someone else wants you to be...Hell no!. If you want to be a priest then more power to you but only for yourself.

Also, it's like my Grandmother had 12 grandchildren, me being one of them but yet, she was upset that me and my wife decided not to have kids...Tradition sucks...people do things and they don't even know why...

And the biggest peve of them all is "have a baby before grandma dies so she can see a grand child..Sorry not doing that for anyone..There are people out there that have had children for just that reason....

Anyway, back to the subject..sorry

Blutwulf
12-13-2006, 12:09 PM
Joey, Joey... You're breakin' your mamma's heart. Go into the ministry. It ain't too late, you know?

Malcolm
12-13-2006, 07:42 PM
Look at it this way. You've got someone that wants to pay for your college education. Only other person I know that will do that is George W. Bush. Big problem with George's plan is you first have to go to Iraq or spend four to five years floating around the ocean on a ship.

Get real -- Your parents want to send you to college -- and it sounds like they would spring for graduate school as well. Take them up on it -- life is a compromise, you give a little they give a little. Get a BBA and a music degree, it need not be one or the other. Having a BBA will help not hinder your musical ventures.

What the heck make your Mom real happy stay for a MBA and a Masters in music. You both get what you want. These days to be successful you need at least a Masters in any field. You Mom and Dad already understand this --- take them up on the offer. Deals like this only come around once. Get it while you can.

ashc
12-13-2006, 08:27 PM
Not really adding anything, but rather summarising. Unless you want to be specifically a music teacher or academic (in which case I would expect you to already have upper qualifications in music) I can't think of any other career in music that is barred by abscence of any qualification.

On the other hand there are many many other well paid careers that are not open to those without relevant qualifications.

For me, I was good at electronics and rubbish at music, which one was a career and which was a hobby was an easy choice. Folks like Brian May who are talented in multiple things (Astronomy & Guitar construction :D !) are bit rarer - actually most astronomers probably end up in accountancy anyway.

As Malcom hinted (I believe) a "double major" might be an option to appease artistic temperament, parents and common sense.

metalmike06
12-13-2006, 08:42 PM
Look at it this way. You've got someone that wants to pay for your college education. Only other person I know that will do that is George W. Bush. Big problem with George's plan is you first have to go to Iraq or spend four to five years floating around the ocean on a ship.

Get real -- Your parents want to send you to college -- and it sounds like they would spring for graduate school as well. Take them up on it -- life is a compromise, you give a little they give a little. Get a BBA and a music degree, it need not be one or the other. Having a BBA will help not hinder your musical ventures.

What the heck make your Mom real happy stay for a MBA and a Masters in music. You both get what you want. These days to be successful you need at least a Masters in any field. You Mom and Dad already understand this --- take them up on the offer. Deals like this only come around once. Get it while you can.

Yeah yeah I totally understand that. Don't get me wrong I am more than grateful to have parents that are willing to put me through school. But, like I said, my parents are just close minded and think music is generally a stupid career choice, no matter how high of a degree I get in it. I don't know what more to do to explain this to them. Keep in mind my family isn't really musical at all...My parents were pretty studious kids. Which would obviously explain a lot of it. But whatever...eventually it will work out. I'm just takin it one day at a time.

Malcolm
12-13-2006, 09:25 PM
I wanted to teach High School science. My dad was a MD my Mom was a RN. They would not hear of it. Spent 42 years in sales and found ways to teach people all during that time. Plus Dad was right; the money was better which enabled me to give my family more than I would have teaching High School.

Loved working with young salespeople. Loved teaching them the product and how to build their territory. Always a new batch coming on so there was always someone needing training. During the 80’s and 90’s I taught the Dale Carnegie Leadership Course in my spare time. And ended my career with a dream assignment; during the early 90’s to 2000 I was responsible for the training of Mack Trucks Inc. sales force through out North America.

Did not teach High School science, but, I taught a lot of people during those 42 years.

I'm sure music will be a part of your life one way or the other. You just need to find a way that is best for you and your family.

Schooligo
12-14-2006, 01:43 AM
Hi MetalMike06,

well lots of people are giving you their opinions, and when it comes to opinions it is in your interest to be objective about what information you decide to apply to your life :D

so what advice can I give you that will help:

LIFE IS ABOUT CHOICES

and metalmike06 your direction in life should be about your choices, because it is your life.

it is not a positive thing in life to wonder what if, and have regrets.

I do not believe as some others have stated that FLATOUT music is a hobby,

I will agree for some it may be a hobby,

for other musicians (like myself included :) ) we literally BREATHE music.

for musicians who literally breathe music and it is our passion,
our priority is to steadily keep progressing so that we can eventually be the most complete knowledgeable creative musician we can be ;)

and to do that you have prioritorize:

so some more necessary advice:
(and these are just a few of the many important priorities in life)

1. live your life within your means(financially)

2. try to have balance in your life as much as possible

3. be a student of music(no matter what your level of proficiency on a musical instrument) throughout your life, and for that matter be a student of life throughout your life,

4. finish high school and get your diploma,

please realize a couple of things:

going to college is an investment, and it has been proven that people who finish in college make more money, have more opportunity for advancement in their occupation, etc, then those people who do not have that college degree.

like I have stated before it was important to me to have balance and have something to fall back on(so that I personally wasn't relying completely on music to provide financially for me), so I went to College and finished with a Degree(and I don't regret doing that) and I'm now able to provide substantially for myself, loved ones, etc.

if you choose to be a professional in the music industry, you will have to make many choices, (for example just one choice that comes to mind since I saw your profile is that your in KS and you may have to consider the possibility of relocating to a different state or area where the music business is closer),

and the music business is a business, and in any business it is in your interest to be very knowledgeable about the choices you make in that industry.

so life is about choices,

do as much research as you can to make the best choices for you!

and Have a Great Holiday Season!!!

silent-storm
12-14-2006, 04:34 AM
I'm probably only a couple years older then you, metalmike06. I am going down the whole musical education path and my parents are actually very supportive. The closer I get to graduation the more reality starts to set in. I have come to the fact that I don't want to be like my parents and talk about how lucky I was to get cereal at a dollar off and how this purchase is going to be on next months visa bill, so it'll be alright. But the fact is that if I continue down this path and just go with music, this will probably be my reality. Of course there are many smaller and not so likely options out there (studio work, etc), but considering the music I want to create, the main ones that are financially possible would be: teach privately 5 days a week and persue the music I want to make on the side, or go on to get a masters and teach at a college level and play the music I want to make on the side, or join a number of groups playing music I'm not too interested in and play the good stuff on the side, or find another source of income to supplement the music I want to make on the side. I think I'm as passionate as they come, but the further along I go the more financially stable I want to be in order to really let that passion flow freely. Unless you REALLY like teaching, there aren't all that many financially viable options out there.

Me, I'm not too big on teaching and I don't think I have the funds to finance a masters, so I think I need another small financially benifitial hobby on the side of this one in order to really get to where I want to go.

UKRuss
12-14-2006, 08:26 AM
and Have a Great Holiday Season!!!

But Schooli, real dedicated musicians don't get a holiday season...it's when they have to work the hardest. Xmas Eve...New Years Eve...Corporate parties...etc.etc.

:D

Schooligo
12-14-2006, 07:40 PM
But Schooli, real dedicated musicians don't get a holiday season...it's when they have to work the hardest. Xmas Eve...New Years Eve...Corporate parties...etc.etc.

Ha Ha,
you have a great sense of humor, UK Russ!! :p

yes It's true, this is a busy time of year for many musicians, but to quote the Immortal words of the great musician Paul Gilbert,


"what could be more fun than playing guitar!!! :D

eastwood
12-19-2006, 02:04 PM
Do both !

I do....

Play guitar most of the night, record, write my own tunes, rehearse with the band twice a week, play PAYING gigs often and then play Mr Director in an Engineering company by day. :p

My guitar is always there for me its a huge part of my life BUT It would take me along time to save up for nice new guitars and amps with my band salary. :mad:

5 - 10 years ago there wasn't any room for guitar based music....hell, I didn't even play mine and I'm sure there were many more in the same situation. My heros from the 80's even struggled.....some taking up different lines of employment or even giving up completely.

Only recently have we seen the guitar and 'shred' guitar come back in popularity and all of a sudden its new and fresh AGAIN so everyone wants to become famous again and feature on next months guitar magazine cover - which is good news for me as the more popular rock becomes the more gigs we get to play.

Take John Levin (Warlock / Dokken) for example....He ran his own Lawyer firm in the late 90's when things went quiet......then 3 years ago he gets the call off Don Dokken - so now he's doing both. There's no shiny limo waiting for these guys after a show like there was in the 80's.....just some rusty old mini-cab :p

So success nowdays is built on being in fashion / flavour of the month and has got little to do with technical abilities on guitar. If you can think of a way to make money from being the fastest guitar player on youtube I'm sure there are1,000's of kids that would be interested.

Anyways, get your grounding, get your carreer and income sorted and carry on playing for as long as you like. It needn't be JUST a hobby it could become a nice 2nd income - so you could call yourself 'semi-pro'

I have never fancied the teaching route, as I would imagine you get less 'playing' time than you would think.....holding down a F Major chord for 60 mins or learning a Green Day song for someone.......ewwww...dont fancy that ! I know you can establish yourself to a level where your teaching all ages / abilities and you end up learning from your students but I have felt that teaching could be a bit hit and miss......you know....no contracts between you and the student, cancelations and so on.

Anyways again....I'm off before the old man catches me doing nothing again !

Daz

eastwood
12-19-2006, 02:30 PM
Just to add to this....

My parents were very un-musical (although my dad loved his vinyl and my moms mom was a concert pianist)

They hated the rock / guitar / long hair thing (should have seen em when I had my ear pierced ! :eek: )


I wanted a guitar when I was 12 but they wouldn't buy me one - so I had to wait until I was 16/17 until I could afford one myself.

They were sorta 'anti' it then - although they could see the dedication but they didn't like the 'image' (we are talking mid 80's Hard Rock fashions now)

Know what I did ?

I got worse ! Grew me hair very long, bleached it, spandex / cowboy boots on and so on

Practised harder and harder and joined several bands

and

Passed my apprenticeship at college, got myself a decent job and got myself qualified !

EVERYONE WAS HAPPY !!!!!!!!!

and they still are ;)

UKRuss
12-19-2006, 03:20 PM
Even I'm proud of you after that!:D

eastwood
12-19-2006, 03:21 PM
Thanks Dad !

:p

hairballxavier
12-28-2006, 04:39 PM
metalmike06,


Seems to me that you could buy alot of guitars/amps on a dentist's salary.

Start a metal band called the Toothcrushers, etc.:D

Spino
12-29-2006, 07:40 PM
The ultimate decision lies with you, and nobody can take that away ,you sound committed and are entitled to be an individual so don't let all the peripheral sh*t,subjectivity etc,cloud your vision. Your parents will never understand what it's all about cuz they're not musically inclined . It's an all or nothin situation .Music will demand everything you can give so the less time you spend on "The Unnecessay" the better and anyway safety nets can break too.So be brave and don't be another victim of the norm, after all, some of us MUST carry on the legacy.G'Luck ;)

gersdal
12-30-2006, 11:31 AM
"Don't do as your mother tells you
your mother is a cow" :D
(Translation of lyrics by Ole Paus - from Norwegian)

We can't all be like eastwood, succeeding in both areas. I would probably recommend something like going for both, music as your dream and whatever education as back-up. My back-up turned out to be what I'm doing for a living now.

However, it would be great to have Eric, ChrisJ or phantoms view on this. I guess they went 100% for music. Did they have a back-up plan? Would that have messed up their musical carreer?

Doc G

Padawan
12-30-2006, 12:20 PM
The ultimate decision lies with you, and nobody can take that away ,you sound committed and are entitled to be an individual so don't let all the peripheral sh*t,subjectivity etc,cloud your vision. Your parents will never understand what it's all about cuz they're not musically inclined . It's an all or nothin situation .Music will demand everything you can give so the less time you spend on "The Unnecessay" the better and anyway safety nets can break too.So be brave and don't be another victim of the norm, after all, some of us MUST carry on the legacy.G'Luck ;)

Absolutely right. Either you want to be a professional musician or not. And if you want to be one, then there is no way inbetween. Back-up plans and all that stuff will hold you back. So don't be discouraged if people want to convince you to get a "normal job" because they'll never understand what music means to you.
And to quote Marty Friedman: "beeing a professional musician is not for those who just like music. It's rather for those who refuse to do anything else" (something like that :rolleyes:

jloving
01-17-2007, 09:30 AM
I have had struggles with my parents since I first really became interested in music (in band since 5th grade, but it was in 10th that it became my life). I don't mean to degrade them in any way, because afterall they are my parents, but they supported me financially (after a lot of coaxing) and not as much on the emotional end. Our band had a large awards banquet (we were over 200 in number) and I remember comin ghome having received the sophomore scholarship for musical potential - my dad looked at the plaque and said to me, "Well why did they give that to you". It's difficult for him to understand the value of music, and the joy of learning it and using it in daily life because he's worked with his hands his whole life. My mom, who does appreciate music, and who was slightly more supportive than my dad, still doubted that i had the ability to make it as a composer (or anything else) and would call my band director multiple times saying "can he really do this?" It wa a struggle that led to a rough relationship with them, that didn't get any better after I began studies at the Capital university Conservatory of Music last fall (with a hefty scholarship too; that was a good in-your-face to them). Right now it's resulted in my need to be on leave of absence, and my parents have claimed my instruments (3 guitars, keyboard [my lifeline as a composer] and my horn) and have plans of selling them. Shortly after Christmas my dad and I got into an argument at my grandparents where he said something about one of my compsition notebooks, and i sarcastically said "why dont' you just sell that too" too which he replied "no - nobody wants that". It's been very difficult dealing with my parents...

BUT

it's well worth the trouble to do something I love. And that's what I would tell you - if you love it, do it. I went to school saying "I don't know what I'm going to do with a degree in composition - probably work a diner and scrape by - but I love it too much not to go for it" Music is something that lives in our souls, and to try and close it off doesn't do anybody any favors. If you want to teach - then teach. God knows there are too many people teaching music that are only doing it as a last resort, and they don't really want to be there. So if it's what you want, go for it.

UKRuss
01-17-2007, 09:37 AM
That doesn't sound like a positive situation to be in!

Hope it works out for you Jonathan.

Kinoble
01-17-2007, 12:28 PM
it's well worth the trouble to do something I love. And that's what I would tell you - if you love it, do it. I went to school saying "I don't know what I'm going to do with a degree in composition - probably work a diner and scrape by - but I love it too much not to go for it" Music is something that lives in our souls, and to try and close it off doesn't do anybody any favors. If you want to teach - then teach. God knows there are too many people teaching music that are only doing it as a last resort, and they don't really want to be there. So if it's what you want, go for it.

Thats very true jonathan, like ukruss, i hope things work out for you, i think you have a great attitude.

Ben

Dushan S
03-03-2007, 01:32 PM
This thread is a bit old, but I comment because some answers just made me think. My view at music is that being musician is not something "resonable" at all... So it kind of scared me that so much people in this thread were like "be sure you have real job to pay your rent etc". I can't think of ANY great musician that was learning to play and thinking at the same time "man, I have to be sure I have a real job so I can take care about my family". If someone thinks about security first he cannot get far. Success in music needs whole man, passion determination and hard work, I guess much more of it than what it takes to be great dentist. There is a lot of things that can happen to someone and stop him from realize his potentials, yes, but that does not mean that someone cannot still have a job connected with music and music industry.

For me real question for the guy that has problem with parents is "Am I the One". "Is it the way for me?". It is hard thing to do and it asks for being true to himself, and is very rare, but sooner someone can clear thing for himself, the better. Actually (an I may be a bit rough here) it is very possible that you, MetalMike should become dentist and take music as a hobby, but not because it is right thing to do, or because your parents want you to do that, but because you have doubts. If you were great player already, if you were playing your *** for hours, if you were into music 24 hours of the day, if you were waking up taking guitar because without it you feel like there is part of your body missing, there would be no doubt in you. You would have no choice but to confront your parents and do what is right for you no matter the cost. Very fact that even your parents can make you think "Should I?" means that maybe you should not. Just imagine what different obstacles you will have to overcome in becoming proffesional musician, or anything connected with music. If you need your parents approval for that, there are even bigger problems and obstacles that will come your way and break you later.
There is some kind of completely irrational belief in most professional musicians and people working in music I got to know that they "must and have to do what they do". I myself have came to my parents at age of 13 and just said "I will be professional musician", and they looked back with confused faces. There was no choice, I had to do that even if it was a lot of pain and problems because my both parents wanted me to get some high education outside the music.

Anyway have a talk with yourself and be honest with yourself: Are you good enough, do you have guts and dedication. If you are full of doubts, just be a dentist or something else and take music as a hobby and don't look back, don't lie to yourself. it is not about your parents, it is not their power that will make you choose your way in life but don't let yourself make up situation like they can really force you to do this or that. They cannot. It is just that their doubts in you and their wishes have ground in you. If there were not thoughts in your own mind about "safer way is a better way" you would not b in this situation. As in most cases, your outer situation is just a good reflection of inner self.


Also, one more thing, if you really love music, and you don't make it as a player, there are other things in music...if you have the passion and dedication. My friend was into being shredder but ended as a great guitar builder and he is very happy because he expresses his creative side even better than it would be possible if he was only a guitar player, and it also puts in motion some other gifts he has. Some people ended working in studios as engineers, I have myself worked as engineer on some recordings. There is a lot of different things to work connected with music, so I don't see clear polarity between guitar-everything else. Guitar is just an instrument, way to play music and express yourself, but you can express yourself in many different ways when it comes to music.

Padawan
03-03-2007, 04:15 PM
Right. And I think you made a good point when you said that it takes a lot more work to become a professional musician than with almost any other job. I think professional musicians deserve a lot more respect. Especially jazz players, it's just incredible how much they have to know to follow the changes and sound good.

metalmike06
03-04-2007, 08:25 PM
It is what I really want, and given how much I play and practice I know I can make something out of it. I just put a lot of guilt on myself because they go the extra mile to pay for my education (well most of it) and I feel I have an obligation to not let that go to waste. Their attitudes have changed a little bit recently abot the whole thing (it has been what, a couple months since the beginning of this thread?) and their starting to gain acceptance of it (surprisingly enough they were impressed with a composition I showed them) so it's all starting to pan out better than I was expecting. I may make mistakes and I guess I'll learn from them whatever happens and quit worrying about everything and just keep going.

Bande
03-05-2007, 09:11 PM
Actually this thread is exactly like if I had started it... I have Exactly the same situation that MetalMike has (except for the dentist thing - my parents want me to be an engineer or somethin) - Well, well... thereīs onr thing. Dushan has made a very VERY good point, that you have to discuss the whole issue with yourself first, and then decide what your soul tells you to decide. But. Actually now I am in a school in Denmark where I have lots and lots of freetime, so Iīve been thinking much. And I came to the point, that making a living from music IS what I want to do, considering the tough parts also (music business side and so on). But the reason why I still REALLY donīt know what to do is very simple... I LOVE my parents and really donīt want to confront them... thatīs the reason why I am still hesitating, and not because the doubt in myself! I dont wanna get in such a tough and tense situation with my parents that jloving is in... that would very terrible. So I donīt have doubts, but I kinda have a fear of breaking up the realtionship with my parents (some of my friends are already living separated from their parents and pass each other by on the street, and just nodding to each other... Man, that would be the worst thing for me in life).

I have a very good music teacher in this school here, who encourages me to be a musician really much, and he told me his story, that he also confronted his parents, and at the age of 31, he still doesnīt get on well with his parents (they dont pick up the phone if he is calling), so hereīs the problem. I really love my parents, but the only thing we dont agree on is this "pro musician" issue. They just dont even want to hear about it (like I said its quite much the same situation that MetalMikeīs).

But I think I will HAVE TO make that decision anyway... because thereīs one more thing. having much money gives you a comfortable life, but that doesnt necessarily mean a GOOD and HAPPY life. And thatīs the point!!! I would much rather live in a small flat, not having much stuff, BUT still be happy, and doing what I love THE MOST in my life, than to have a good paying job, BUT be stressed, and doing something throughout my whole life that I DONT like to do. because I dont fancy this engineering stuff at all. So I will have to make this decision, becuase if I start at the university, I signed the paper for having the kind of life that I dont want to have (the comfortable BUT definitely boring and not happy one)

I think all this is a matter of a certain way of common thinking. Why is that that everybody is ONLY chasing that freaking money?? Why does everybody think that it is something that can make your life complete? If it is like that, then in my opinion it is sad! Why is it that all the menīs magazines are full of fancy stuff like expensive cars, watches, and trash like that, and that is also a thing that kinda puts the thought in your unconscious mind that "If I had that watch, then I would be happy, like that sporty guy on the next page with the sexy sexy girl". If you have a good salary You may have a big house, Flatron TV, and a machine that puts the food in your mouth, and maybe even chews it for you (like some japanese dudes have), but be stressed and not do what you would really love to do. That could NOT be a way for me to live an entire life!!! I have a philosophy that the point of life is to have a funny, interesting life, have fun all the time. Waking up at the same minute every morning, doing the same thing again and again and again until I retire is not interesting at all. For me it is not. I would really find my happiness of life in being a musician. And my mother is very much like that, she is really really money-centered, has a good salary but Iīm not sure that sheīs completely happy (maybe I am wrong but actually me and my mother are two TOTALLY different kinds of people). As I see my mother now (what she is doing in a day, how she lives her life) - well, it is SURELY a comfortable thing, eating fine food, having good furniture, going on holiday, etc. But its boring for me (not the fancy stuff is boring, of course, because thatīs nice to have, but the way of living and working that goes with it). Sh*t, maybe Iīm just a stupid 18 year old who still sees the world through pink glasses, but I really think that way!! And I know many other people (actually ALL of my friends) who are also like that.

And also, Sometimes when I go to my momīs workplace, and I see the environment (she is also a programmer-enginner, and thatīs what they want me to become too)... I get bored immediately. And also her colleauges... Iīm sorry, maybe this is gonna be rude, but they are intellectual highbrow over-educated jerks (most of them) telling sh*tty jokes, and just sitting at the computer and everything. I am not like that. I couldnīt carry an entire life through like that. Iīm sorry if I am rude and generalizing, sorry. I didīt mean to be rude.

So, I donīt want university ANYWAY, because I donīt want to get in this kind of circle. With getting a degree, that would be it! And why spend my PRECIOUS time for studying something i donīt like, to achive something that i donīt want, while I could practice, or work on becoming a musician in any way, because like Dushan said, music needs full person, thereīs no room for study, exams and stuff like this! And i also agree with joeyīs comment, like he said - "If I had gone to university, now I would be a decent guitarist BUT have a cool gear". I donīt want that to happen!

Thatīs the way I see things, maybe I am weird, but like I said, I am surrounded with people with the same way of thinking, and theyīre all HAPPY people. Not rich, not comfortable (at all), but still HAPPY. Enjoying life... So THIS is what makes me thing that theres some kind of truth in what I am saying.

(Ok, if the whole point that I am making is wrong than i am gonna starve to death because I couldnīt make it, BUT THEN i deserved it because I was stupid enough to think like that. Still, i was happy for a short lifetime, haha! :D)

Sorry for the lengthy comment.

Cheers everybody

Padawan
03-06-2007, 12:30 AM
Bande, if I were you I would talk with my parents about how important music is to me and I think if they love you the same as you love them, they will finally accept your decision. Otherwise I would still go for it, because like Marty Friedman once said:
Beeing a professional musician is not for those who just love music, but rather for those who refuse to do anything else.
I'm one of them, mainly because I have a strong vision about what I want to reach musicwise, how about you?
There are plenty of tests you can make to find out which job could be interesting for you. It didn't work for me, maybe it'll work for you.

But consider this, and I say that to everyone:
Be sure that you truly want it because once you've made that step, there is no way back. Maybe in 10 years you think different and then you might regret your decision for the rest of your life.
And money is one of the most important things in the world. For almost every plans and dreams you want to realize, even if not materialistic, you'll need it! Besides, almost every woman in the world looks for a man with money, much money if possible.

So if you wanna do it, make sure that you put all your energy into it, like Rocky Balboa! (I just saw that movie, it was very motivating :D

leppard81
03-06-2007, 07:39 AM
Padawanīs got a good point here. Dont forget that its all about you, and ONLY you. Thatīs the main thought i had when i wanted to become a musician. Really make sure to do what you do just for YOU and no one else. Because if you try and fail, youīve got only yourself to blame and its the same if you succeed.

I was lucky that my parents were very supportive about my decision wanting to be a muisician and going to ATMA, they helped me alot allthough they didnt really understand why i wanted to do it. But knowing that the previous jobs i had, didnt make me happy AT ALL, they probably understood that this is the only way to go for me. Thank good they thought/(...errr hopefully:rolleyes: ) still think like that, but honestly, even if they werenīt supportive, I would have done it anywy.

Maybe then Iīd have guilty conscience, but i realized, the only thing i can do is follow my heart, since, and here it comes again, this is all about me, and no one else. As cheesy as it may sound, but "follow your heart", is the only thing you have to do. Everything else will fall in place because of that.

ALEX

Bande
03-06-2007, 10:07 AM
Yes guys, you are really right, it is only about me, and it is a decision that once I made, thereīs no turning back. And there is REALLY nobody else to blame but myself if it doesnīt work out. Especially noy my parents because they REALLY told me!

Or IS there any other way? In my country actually it is NEVER too late to start to study at college, so if I mess up the music thing I can still choose the engineering stuff at the age of 20, 30, 40! OK, that would be a bit weird (and also much MUCH more difficult) to learn there as an "old man" with all the youngsters, but still, I HAVE the opportunity! So... I would try it anyway. See what happens. Iīm just SO freaking afriad that my relationship with my parents is gonna get bad...

Thanks guys!

Cheers

leppard81
03-06-2007, 10:59 AM
See what happens. Iīm just SO freaking afriad that my relationship with my parents is gonna get bad...



How about thinking everything through and come up with a "concept" to show your parents? Not just tell them to that you wanna go to a music school because you want to, but something like "See, thereīs this music school in town, if I go to, e.g. GIT, i could probably teach there".... - try to connect it to a goal that might appeal to your parents too, so they see that youīve got some sort of plan. Parents usually want the best for their children, theyīre just concerned about you.


How about telling your parents about your feelings? Would it help? Give it a try!

When i confronted my parents with the fact that someday i wanna be a musician, they didnt say much to it, but just thought that its a joke. a few years later i (and my parents too!) realized - "nowīs the time" - and i quit my good-paying job in an office and headed to Munich for ATMA (while being there i worked at some part time jobs and could pretty much pay everything by myself (ATMA, the flat, food,etc...), thank good my parents helped my out a bit too money wise.


Since then (2 years ago) I went back home and tried to built up a reputation for myself as a teacher (since thereīs a lack of musicians to play with in my area), which finally seems to work, since suddenly people are calling me just by word of mouth. I even can teach at a musicshool some times (alltough privatly, since ATMA is a private school and offers no education degree (is that the right word?)

I even found a great drummer, whoīs also is totally willing to commit himself to a musicians life. So even though I havent got a real band (apart from occassionally helping out some friends at gigs), I think so far iīve created a very good starting point (since i dont hope that what Iīm having now is already the end of my carreer....;)...) Still, if I wouldnt live at home again for these 2 years it probably never wouldīve worked, but since i do i save way more money than i ever did before, as there are no expenses for e.g. a flat.

its not the perfect way of living, but I love what i do, and if i keep at it iīll get better and probably get more opportunities along the way.


To quote the italian stallion:

It ain't about how hard you hit, it is about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.

Bande
03-06-2007, 04:37 PM
Yes, Leppard. Actually I could easlily do that. It would be easier them also. But I still have a few months, maybe a few years before this "quarrel" is going to take place, so I will think about what I am EXACTLY gonna tell them before I stand in front of them.

thanks for the advice. And also thanks for not considering me a weird thinking little jerk, and giving me useful advice.

Bande
03-06-2007, 04:40 PM
However, it would be great to have Eric, ChrisJ or phantoms view on this. I guess they went 100% for music. Did they have a back-up plan? Would that have messed up their musical carreer?


Yes! Thatīs right!!! We would really like to hear your stories, Guys!!!!

leppard81
03-07-2007, 09:22 PM
thanks for the advice. And also thanks for not considering me a weird thinking little jerk, and giving me useful advice.

Youīre welcome! I couldnt consider you weird. Otherwise 90% of the people one here (inlcuding me) would be.... Welcome to the club! :D :p

Steinberg
03-13-2007, 08:55 PM
I face the same problem.
Well, I don't know how it actually works in United States, but here in Denmark, there is free college. So I just go through High School to have a back up, and then I planning to audition for a music school.

Malice-Mizer
03-14-2007, 04:26 AM
My dads a problem for me. I rejected going to university to study business, that really got him going lol. However, he doesnt back me to do music because he doesnt believe I can play well. He keeps talking down about what I've achieved, I mean I can actually play Jason Beckers "Perpetual Burn" and lots of stuff from Yngwie and Paul Gilbert, yet it just isnt penetrating! What should I do? I thought learning something amazing would show him, but I dont know what to do. Plus he wants to send me to South Korea so that he can get into the country. I think thats why he wanted me to study business, its all about money, how valuable I am as a son depends on how many pounds to my name...grrrr...I will NEVER give up on music...ever!!! As for jloving, thats a tough one, I have been terrified of saying anything even when Im getting blasted to hell, because of the fear that he'd get rid of my instruments. I've had the threat hanging over me a few times. I really feel for you dude.

PS
Is the OpenUniversity any good? I've been wondering anout this for awhile.