Scale positions. An approach.

[Joe Pass Jr]

Lately I have been looking for new ways to approach scales in a manner that might make them a bit simpler to remember. I showed this to a friend and apparently its nothing new, but personally I havn't seen it laid out in this manner before. past teachers have taught me various methods which involved 5 or 7 patterns which were a real pain to memorise. Anyway, have a look and comment or share any other approaches you guys might have.

I guess the part I like best about this approach is that every position starts on a chordal note so if your improvising and get lost. Starting on the First note of any fingering will make sure your line at least starts off on a 'good' note :) no pun intended.

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/3368/cmajoruk9.jpg

[Joe Pass Jr]

i take it by the number of views and 0 comments that no one uses scales anymore?? or my approach is just not worth the time of day?

[DuB]

So... you're relating scale positions to arpeggios? I don't understand the novelty.

[Crossroads]

Dodgy link ... crashed my new PC.:mad:

Edit -- OK, so I can’t view that link to see how the patterns may be helpful, though I’m quite prepared to believe they are. But you have to be patient here…it‘s not Harmony Central (thankfully!) and things are much slower moving.

Actually I think we ought to do something positive to increase the number new posts … maybe a good idea if some of the regular pro. teachers here could post short discussions about things that arise in the weeks teaching (there must be massive scope with that).:)

Ian.

[Joe Pass Jr]

Dub, yes and no. I guess not everyone thinks of things in the same way so ill try explain.

Most guitarists i know think of scales in 5 or 7 patterns. 7 would be one horizontal pattern for every mode but in context of one scale. So C Major with a fingering starting on G another on A another on B ect.. I learn't this way and find it to be a real pain in the *** when improvising over complicated changes that involve large shifts in the tonal center. Obviously when this happens you need to refer to an entirely new scale and hence all accompanying positions/fingerings. Depending on where on the fretboard you are when the change occurs.

The novelty as i see it here, is that when changing keys or modes you don't have 5 or more positions to consider only 4. They also in my mind lock into the appropriate chord inversions and relating arpeggios in a more logical form. Clearly the fingerings here only apply to major sounds but I'm not going to write the minor, dominant ect.. positions out unless someone was interested..



But yea as i said, not everyone considers or visualizes patterns in the same way. This has just become a personal preference of mine.

P.S the link works fine for me but ill attach it anyway.

[DuB]

I think your scale pattern for "Position 4 - 1st inversion" is a little messed up.

[Joe Pass Jr]

So it is. I'm sure you can figure it out though :) Ill fix it up later on.

[UKRuss]

Dodgy link ... crashed my new PC.:mad:

Edit -- OK, so I can’t view that link to see how the patterns may be helpful, though I’m quite prepared to believe they are. But you have to be patient here…it‘s not Harmony Central (thankfully!) and things are much slower moving.

Actually I think we ought to do something positive to increase the number new posts … maybe a good idea if some of the regular pro. teachers here could post short discussions about things that arise in the weeks teaching (there must be massive scope with that).:)

Ian.



If only they had the time Ian...

[Joe Pass Jr]

I would love to be able to give a more detailed analysis of what these patterns actually mean to me, along with the why's and how's of the process. but it could be a rather large post with many examples and charts so maybe the mods could give me room to post it as an article??? i tried writing to a few mods about it but no one has responded... UKRuss, do you have any idea how i might go about that?

[UKRuss]

You can certainly pen an article and submit to Clive and Guni for consideration but I have to say the chances of getting it published at the moment are slim.

There is a back log of articles and...no time to publish them. S'just not happenin' at the moment.

IBM is really a fun project/hobby and as such when real life takes over...it has to take a back seat.

Sorry.

[UKRuss]

Short answer: do it in a post or a "strickly".

[Joe Pass Jr]

No problem.

[Crossroads]

If only they had the time Ian...

OK, well give it a little while longer and maybe I’ll start doing it.:)

Ian.

[Jed]

Most guitarists i know think of scales in 5 or 7 patterns. 7 would be one horizontal pattern for every mode but in context of one scale. So C Major with a fingering starting on G another on A another on B ect.. I learn't this way and find it to be a real pain in the *** when improvising over complicated changes that involve large shifts in the tonal center. Obviously when this happens you need to refer to an entirely new scale and hence all accompanying positions/fingerings. Depending on where on the fretboard you are when the change occurs.

JPjr,

With all do respect, it sounds like you'll be trading positional shifts in order to stay in fewer patterns. Why not just learn all the arpeggio forms so you can see how the chord changes "fit" over the various scale fingerings patterns. Once that's under your belt you'll be able to use any 5 fret range to play over any changes in any key.

It's not like you want to spend a lot of time running up or down the scales, neither would you want to play arpeggios all the time, but using arpeggios to anchor the scale forms is a common technique. As you know any scale pattern can be used to play any mode, so too can any pattern be used for any chord voicing and/or arpeggio.

Ultimately, we practice scale patterns so that we won't need them. Certainly the scale patterns are a challenge to learn, but how else will people learn to move freely along the fretboard if they cannot find whatever note they need where ever they find themselves along the fretboard?

cheers,

[forgottenking2]

The patterns are usable. And they do cover quite a bit of ground fretboardwide which is great. What I fail to see is what's the advantage over the 5 or 7 position way of thinking. In order for this approach to be effective, the guitarist should already be confortable playing along one string or perhaps already familiar with the CAGED system. I am not putting your system down or anything I am simply stating the weakness I would see if I were to teach using it. Another problem I see is what if I were to run it throught "cycle 4" I would be unable to stay in the same position and play through say a ii-V-I in all keys (sticking to ONLY the fingerings provided).

For rock and other styles it may constitute a "shortcut" but in the end the student will have to look into other systems as well. To tell you the truth I still haven't found a single system that tackles the fretboard in a complete yet effective way. I personally use a combination of linear, 3NPS and CAGED.

I look forward to your reply. There might have been something I overlooked or I am looking at them on the wrong angle.

Cheers.

-Jorge