Artistry In Heavy Metal Lyrics

[LaughingSkull]

So as to free the other threads of this virus, let us continue discussion here.
JNagaraya, Obivion, and others who are not tired of this, speak your mind.

To accuse heavy metal genre as a whole having "necrophilic--juvenile" lyrics is unjustified generalization.
Obivion has already suggested some metal titles with IMO good lyrics.
As a love songs go, Metallica's Nothing Else Matters is art for me, while Beatles's She Loves You is on par with Brittney:eek: . Would I know only this song from them, i would disregard them. Would this be in my nature, I would say their lyrics are juvenile and their music worthless. Since I am familiar with al least 90% of their repertoire I know that they have some timeless gems, some cool music and even sume juvenile bull****.
And heavy metal? They have some timeless gems, some cool music and even sume juvenile bull****.
As does every genre. And every artist. Neither me, nor Steve Vai are immune to this.:D

I tend never to discuss the artistry of rap. I never listen to it, I can't stand it. I know perhaps 5 songs out of thousands. So I have no grounds on which to make judgement. I suggest JNagaraya, that you take the same attitude towards heavy metal.
Peace.

[Chim_Chim]

To accuse heavy metal genre as a whole having "necrophilic--juvenile" lyrics is unjustified generalization.

I don't know but you're avatar is so metal that it's making me a little paranoid and uncomfortable, as a chimpanzee. :D

[LaughingSkull]

I don't know but you're avatar is so metal that it's making me a little paranoid and uncomfortable, as a chimpanzee. :D

The irony is if you would look at my CD collection you would see 20 CD's of Miles Davis, 30 CDs of Pat Metheny, Keith Jarrett, John Scofield, ... and here I am defending heavy metal ..... (or just sanity) ... go figure.:rolleyes:

[forgottenking2]

Pat Metheny has 30 cds out? Dang I thought I had all of his stuff (about 10 cds)... I guess not. Is this other stuff more in the vein of his trio work? (like more straight ahead jazz?) or is it the new agey modern jazz with real big arrangements?

[Blutwulf]

Artistry is present in any genre. That artistry is defined by the genre, though. That is, for "Heavy Metal," there are elements indicative of mastrey of the genre. Those elements are different than the elements defining mastery of, say, the artistry inherent in Bluegrass, naturally.

As a generalization, one can probably safely say that the target audience of Heavy Metal is not the over-30 crowd. To be sure, there are indeed many people over 30 who like it, mind you. Also, I feel that the target audience is not the under-18 crowd (again, there are surely those under 18 who do like it, however), so by definition it is not "juvenile" music.

While I generally dislike most modern Heavy Metal, I do recognize that for those who do like it there are key elements which dictate excellence in the genre. One of those elements is the styling/tone of the lyrics. The genre, admittedly, departs from "puppy hugging" lyricism, and frequently seeks to evoke images of nightmare, Hell, and apocalypse (as well as many other images, naturally). But even within that framework, there are those who excel at the imagery, and those who simply yield middle-of-the-road imagery.

"They say that life's a carousel, spinning fast you've got to ride it well; the world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams - it's Heaven and Hell... They'll tell you black is really white; the moon is just the sun at night, and when you walk in golden halls you get to keep the gold that falls - it's Heaven and Hell."

High art? Not when compared to Samuel Taylor Coleridge and the world body of non-genre-specific poetry. But within the genre, it was one of the original classics, defining a higher level of the genre. A bar, as it were, for future Heavy Metal songs to seek.

[Joe Pass Jr]

*bites blutwulf on the nose*

[Obivion]

High art? Not when compared to Samuel Taylor Coleridge and the world body of non-genre-specific poetry..

Didn't Maiden write a song on "Ryme of the Ancient Mariner?"

But I was trying to point out that not all metal is your "dungeons and dragons" lyrics like Dio. Some bands such as Metallica and Megadeth use the lyrics as a relevant social commentary on issues such as nuclear proliferation, capital punishment, euthanasia. In fact, we can view thrash metal as an offshoot of the punk genre with better articulated lyrics.

If people get past the whole headbanging, beer-swilling image, the lyrics actual make suprisingly good sense. Because metal isn't into the whole "I love you" idea, the topics that are discussed are often very different (and IMO more interesting. Take for instance Metallica's "Master of Puppets" in which substance abuse is talked about, but from the drug's point of view. Its a very original concept and is excellently executed.

Because metal is such an extreme form of music, it is one of the last forms of avante garde left to the mainstream audience. With jazz having been musician's music since the decline of swing in the late 40s, it's here rather than in the world of rock that the boundaries of music are being pushed to the limit.

[forgottenking2]

lol @ Joe Pass Jr.

I liked heavy metal and it served me well during my teenage years. It also fueled a frenzy of practice that left me with some pretty decent chops. I still don't mind it though I may not listen to it when I'm looking for music one afternoon. There was something, somewhere along the road that sort of steered me in a diferent direction.

Then I went to school and got introduced to jazz (was forced to listen to TONS of records of it) and learned to appreciate it. What that did for me was open a different channel so to speak. Music that never appealed to me before (such as country and bluegrass) all of a sudden had something to offer. I steered clear from snobery (if it ain't jazz it ain't music) but embraced the whole freedom concept that jazz was/is all about.

Good music is good music. I feel stupid when I think of how long it took me to really grasp that tiny concept. But now that same concept has enlarged my record collection (and has shrunk my bank account :D ) and contributed with my enjoyment of music as a listener and performer.

I still listen to metal ocassionally though I don't overindulge in it like I used to in my teenage years. There's plenty of metal I don't care for (as a matter of fact a lot of what I still call metal has now been categorized in the hard rock genre) but I wouldn't shut down a genre simply because of a label (that would make me as bad as the hardcore metal kids who think jazz is boring but have never heard a note of it).

Does this rambly post has a point? Yes. It is: Listen to as much music from as many different genres as you can (and check out Jeff Beck, he's awesome :D ).

-Jorge

[LaughingSkull]

Pat Metheny has 30 cds out?

Even more:
http://wm08.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&searchlink=PAT|METHENY&sql=11:difwxqy5ldhe~T2

I don't have all f them (yet.)

I actually started to listen to metal at tender age of 35! The main reason was curiosity. Then I found out that it calms my nerves and keeps me focused at what I am doing. :p . It's therapeutic music.:D

[Chim_Chim]

The irony is if you would look at my CD collection you would see 20 CD's of Miles Davis, 30 CDs of Pat Metheny, Keith Jarrett, John Scofield, ... and here I am defending heavy metal ..... (or just sanity) ... go figure.:rolleyes:

And mine probably has quite a bit of metal in it for somebody who hates metal in general.How's that for irony? :p

[JNagarya]

So as to free the other threads of this virus, let us continue discussion here.
JNagaraya, Obivion, and others who are not tired of this, speak your mind.

To accuse heavy metal genre as a whole having "necrophilic--juvenile" lyrics is unjustified generalization.
I didn't say "as a whole". Can you address the specifics of what I did say instead of generalizing away from those in order to put words in my mouth that didn't come out of it?

I spoke specifically of "necrophilic lyrics" in some so-called "heavy metal". Is it you who is saying that that specific applies to all "heavy metal" (that would be a generalization) -- because that is not what I said.

It would be helpful if one would would read and respond to that which is actually written, rather than responding instead to one's reaction to that which is written.

[JNagarya]

Good music is good music. I feel stupid when I think of how long it took me to really grasp that tiny concept.

1. I can't stand bluegrass. Hate it.

2. I regularly listen to bluegrass because I love the f*ck out of amazing pickers.

[Chim_Chim]

1. I can't stand bluegrass. Hate it.

2. I regularly listen to bluegrass because I love the f*ck out of amazing pickers.

That's pretty much how I feel about metal.Except I would probably rather listen to bluegrass than metal anyday.Bluegrass vocals are probably even less likely to annoy me than metal's would be likely to.

[Cedstick]

Metal itself is just the image; it's all with the individual. Whereas many bands will throw together lyrics comprised of as many large and technical-sounding words as they can to describe a disembowlment in action to you or scream death-threats at the top of their lungs, there are in-turn quality song-writers with meaningful messages to convey.

Look at Mikael Akerfeldt--you're going to hear me talk about this guy a lot; I love Opeth. He's written some of the most poetic pieces I've ever heard in metal, and even if the lyrics are crude or basic the message he gets across is put through with such emotion and gravity using language that twists the idea deeper into the heart that you can't help but admire it. You hear it, you read the lyrics--you feel his suffering, if it were to be that.

Then again, I'm extremely emotional when it comes to music so this might just be melodrama to some of you.