PDA

View Full Version : Basslines



B.Bankz
02-17-2008, 07:18 PM
Im having trouble adding a basslines to pieces which Im creating. Is there any way in which I can build basslines, like what format should I use.

For example, Im making a song based off of C minor scale, which means I will be using the Eb major scale to do my base. But when I try it comes out strange. Can I get any assistance?. The melody goes, C minor, Ab,Eb, Bb....

I would like help in order to solve this and adjust to any basslines problems I may encounter.

Malcolm
02-17-2008, 08:45 PM
For example, Im making a song based off of C minor scale, which means I will be using the Eb major scale to do my base. But when I try it comes out strange. Can I get any assistance?. The melody goes, C minor, Ab,Eb, Bb....

I would like help in order to solve this and adjust to any basslines problems I may encounter.
I question why you decided to use the Eb Major scale for your bass notes?

The original answer I posted has been edited -------- Interesting development between the chords in Cm and the chords in Eb Major. May I ask why you decided to use Eb Major for your chords?

You end up with minor melody notes over major chords, but we do this all the time -- Blues scale over Dominant 7th chords for example. Have not played your piece -- how strange is the sound you are hearing?

B.Bankz
02-18-2008, 12:01 AM
I chose to start my bass note with Eb because thats what makes C minor. C minor has a Eb in it...so i started my bassline with Eb and I know I have the play the notes from the Eb scale for the bassline but what format to do so. Like what should i follow

Malcolm
02-18-2008, 01:30 AM
I chose to start my bass note with Eb because thats what makes C minor. C minor has a Eb in it...so i started my bassline with Eb and I know I have the play the notes from the Eb scale for the bassline but what format to do so. Like what should i follow

Well I learned something today in answering your original question.
C minor scale is C, D, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bd, C
Eb major scale is Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb, C, D, Eb
Both have the same notes. I had never put those two together before. That's why I was curious as to how you decided to use the Eb scale.

I think we all understand the vi or VI relative minor or relative major having the same notes but I had never seen the correlation between the iii of the minor scale becoming the same notes when taken to the major scale.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now to answer your question about how to come up with a bassline.
IMHO I would stay major or minor not mix the two. Cm scale I'd use the Cm key for my chords. From those chords I'd draw the notes for the bassline. For example:

Melody in C minor = these notes C, D, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb, C which then produce these chords......................Cm, Ddim, Eb, Fm, Gm, Ab, Bb, Cm
Key structure number.......i...iidim...III....iv...v....VI..VII. ..i

Which chords to use? Can not go too wrong with the i, iv, v, i progression or Cm, Fm, Gm, loop back to Cm.

And beyond that I'm not very strong with minor key progressions, i.e. how the iidim and the VII fit into the minor key. I'm sending you to another string for the Major progression logic that may help explain what chords within the key to use in your bassline.
http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14096

But, back to our Cm, Fm, Gm chords and their notes. Your baseline need not include all the notes of the chords. You may decide to use the 1-5 or a 1-7 notes of the chord instead of the full chord.

B.Bankz
02-18-2008, 06:19 AM
I thank you for your help..so im basing my bassline off of CM,FM,GM...and playing notes out of that chord. It sounded good..just playing note of CM..just using 1 and 5. C and G natural. If thats fine...let me know...

Malcolm
02-18-2008, 02:17 PM
Yes that is the starting place and that basic i iv v or I IV V progression will let you build hundreds of basslines. And also yes to just using a 1-5 or 1-7 for each chord. Might try a 1-5-6-7-6 loop to get a different feel going.

As you flesh out the piece you may add notes from other chords. Go back and review Autumn Leaves I think it is a perfect example of how all seven chords within one key can be used in a song.

Speaking of fleshing out --- I found jotur's comments on this string very helpful. http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/32/6005.html

Good luck.

jade_bodhi
02-18-2008, 07:56 PM
Well I learned something today in answering your original question.
C minor scale is C, D, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bd, C
Eb major scale is Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb, C, D, Eb

I think we all understand the vi or VI relative minor or relative major having the same notes but I had never seen the correlation between the iii of the minor scale becoming the same notes when taken to the major scale.

Malcolm: I don't understand the distinction you're making. The Cmin and Ebmajor scales are relative to each other. C is sixth note of the Eb major, and Eb is the third note of the C minor scale as in any other relative major and minor keys. So what's new about that?

The idea that the second chord of the minor scale is diminished is new to me, though. I'm not sure what to make of that.

Jade

jimc8p
02-18-2008, 10:50 PM
Hey, this has all got a bit confusing.

Cm, Ab, Eb, Bb, is a I VI III VII progression in a minor key. Really common, so stick with it. In our favourite minor key (A) it is Am, F, C, G, which might be more recognisable.

The correct scale to use is C minor. B.Bankz, I can't tell from what you wrote, but did you know that the Eb major scale contains the same notes as the C minor scale? Your note choice was right, just the scale name was off.

So, the only way this could sound strange is if you are either playing the wrong chords, the wrong scale, or your instrument is out of tune!

To build the line, first try root notes on the first beat of every chord, with C minor scale links between them.

Jed
02-18-2008, 11:36 PM
The idea that the second chord of the minor scale is diminished is new to me, though. I'm not sure what to make of that.
Jade,

Since as you pointed out the Eb major and C natural minor keys are relative to each other, so:

Ebmaj is the Imaj triad in Eb - and the bIIImaj in C natural minor
Fmin is the IImin triad in Eb - and the IVmin in C natural minor
Gmin is the IIImin triad in Eb - and the Vmin in C natural minor
Abmaj is the IVmaj triad in Eb - and the bVImaj in C natural minor
Bbmaj is the Vmaj triad in Eb - and the bVIImaj in C natural minor
Cmin is the VImin triad in Eb - and the Imin in C natural minor
Ddim is the VIIdim triad in Eb - and the IIdim in C natural minor

Ebmaj7 is the Imaj7 in Eb - and the bIIImaj7 in C natural minor
Fmin7 is the IImin7 in Eb - and the IVmin7 in C natural minor
Gmin7 is the IIImin7 in Eb - and the Vmin7 in C natural minor
Abmaj7 is the IVmaj7 in Eb - and the bVImaj7 in C natural minor
Bbmaj is the Vdom7 in Eb - and the bVIIdom7 in C natural minor
Cmin7 is the VImin7 in Eb - and the Imin7 in C natural minor
Dmin7b5 is the VIImin7b5 in Eb - and the IImin7b5 in C natural minor

Keep in mind that a minor key (in actual use) is constructed from several different sources rather than any single mode of the major scale. Minor keys can easily use notes / chords from any minor scale - Aeolian / Natural, Harmonic (natural 7th), Melodic (natural 6th and 7th), Dorian (natural 6th), Phrygian (flat 2nd). The fact that minor keys are derived from multiple scales is in part why there are such ambiguous sounds available.

Of course similar logic could be applied to the major scale and often is relative to "borrowed chords" but the standard major scale is so "complete" to our western ears that it takes a little more care to alter is in a convincing way. It's not difficult, but there are a few less options.

cheers,

Jed
02-18-2008, 11:40 PM
To the OP,

If you submit the progression including the number of beats / measures per chord - any number of people could show you how to write a bass line that fits your progression. Simple bass lines are not difficult to write. Great basslines are another story.

cheers,

Malcolm
02-18-2008, 11:42 PM
Malcolm: I don't understand the distinction you're making. The Cmin and Ebmajor scales are relative to each other. C is sixth note of the Eb major, and Eb is the third note of the C minor scale as in any other relative major and minor keys. So what's new about that?
This old dog learned a new trick today. I went to my handy dandy scale chart and looked up the Cm scale -- C D, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb, C and turned this into chords using the minor key structure i, iidim, III, iv, v, VI, VII, i to get the Cm, Fm, Gm chords. Luckily that is what we needed anyway.

I don't deal in minor keys that much and just took for granted that the relative was always the 6th.

I guess I never had known about the correlation of the 3rd of the minor scale being the relative major. That's one on me.


That brings up another question I should clear up. My handy dandy minor scale chart is self made - and I now doubt I have the intervals named correctly. I'd appreciate it if you would check me out and let me know the correct names.

i = minor Tonic
iidim = minor super tonic -- I think dim is correct but, question the name.
III = Major mediant
iv = minor sub-dominant
v = minor dominant
VI = Major relative ---- and I bet I have this wrong as well.
VII = Major sub-Tonic.

While we are at it..... would appreciate someone check this out also.
Harmonic Minor = 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, b6, 7 and what is the key structure formula, i.e. which are minor chords and which are major chords?
Melodic Minor = 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and what is the key structure formula?

Thanks........ appreciate your help.

B.Bankz
02-19-2008, 05:36 PM
Hey, this has all got a bit confusing.

Cm, Ab, Eb, Bb, is a I VI III VII progression in a minor key. Really common, so stick with it. In our favourite minor key (A) it is Am, F, C, G, which might be more recognisable.

The correct scale to use is C minor. B.Bankz, I can't tell from what you wrote, but did you know that the Eb major scale contains the same notes as the C minor scale? Your note choice was right, just the scale name was off.

So, the only way this could sound strange is if you are either playing the wrong chords, the wrong scale, or your instrument is out of tune!

To build the line, first try root notes on the first beat of every chord, with C minor scale links between them.

I know i could play the roote note for the first best of every chord for the bass..but I would like to take it a step further for the bassline...

Jed
02-19-2008, 05:50 PM
I know i could play the roote note for the first best of every chord for the bass..but I would like to take it a step further for the bassline...

Give us the progression (including beats / bars per chord) and then we can help you.

DuB
02-19-2008, 10:03 PM
VI = Major relative ---- and I bet I have this wrong as well.Submediant. ;)


While we are at it..... would appreciate someone check this out also.
Harmonic Minor = 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, b6, 7 and what is the key structure formula, i.e. which are minor chords and which are major chords?
Melodic Minor = 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and what is the key structure formula?http://www.petethomas.co.uk/pic-jazz/image605.gif

Malcolm
02-20-2008, 01:31 PM
Thank you. That will help me get my charts corrected.

B.Bankz
02-22-2008, 03:08 AM
Give us the progression (including beats / bars per chord) and then we can help you.


Its all in 4/4 time....C minor, Ab,Eb,Bb

Spino
02-22-2008, 09:25 PM
Ok !Lets have more info . How many bars for each chord and are the chords Ab, Eb, Bb, all just Majors (no extensions 9,11 ,13) . You can write them like this / Cm / " / Ab / Eb / etc Which Tempo & Style. Then all Bass players will go to work on this .You will drown in funky Bass Lines ! Won't he guys ? :cool:

B.Bankz
02-27-2008, 03:28 AM
There are no extensions...and the bpm is 90...

Spino
02-27-2008, 08:50 AM
.......and the structure and style of the piece. Have we got to guess that ? :rolleyes:

jimc8p
02-27-2008, 02:18 PM
I'm guessing that style and stucture is not going to be an issue. B.Bankz, all you have to do is improvise on your bass/keys with the Cminor scale. It will quickly become obvious which notes sound good over which chords. Record it if you can, then just chop out the good parts. Stick them together and there's your first inspiration.

Spino
02-27-2008, 06:18 PM
I've lost interest anyway :(

B.Bankz
02-27-2008, 09:12 PM
jim, thanx...i got it now..good lookin..and thanx to everyone else for their help.

Jed
02-28-2008, 04:15 PM
I've lost interest anyway :(

Me too, We've asked to often for the progression - and gotten too little information in response. I'm done.

Jed