bar chords

[gidster]

hi folks, been away for a while

im in the process of learning all the bar chords,flats and sharpes and was wondering if you guys had any tips on learning these and playing then.

also how often do you use them, ive heard once you can play them thats all you will use.

cheers.

[Blutwulf]

Moveable chord shapes are tempting to use, but you will still learn and use a multitude of open chords.

Learn all the incarnations of an open E chord. Major, minor, 7'th, etc. Do the same for A. Jam with your E-shaped and A-shaped barre chords. That'll get you through 90% of rock music, and is the foundation of the average bar rocker.

After that, it will really be worth your time to expand a bit. One can only play "Louie Louie," "Wild Thing," and "Rock You Like a Hurricane" for so long...

[Jed]

im in the process of learning all the bar chords,flats and sharpes and was wondering if you guys had any tips on learning these and playing then.

also how often do you use them, ive heard once you can play them thats all you will use.

I would say that I never use what you mean when you say "bar chords". BTW, the term is actual "barre chords", named for the "barre" that the index or other finger forms in those voicings.

For any particular chord, there is anywhere between 30 to 60 different ways to play the chord. The moveable "barre chord forms" are but just a sampling of what's possible. Good things to learn and know, but hardly the "end game".

As for how to learn those chord (your "barre chords"), study the notes on the 6th and 5th strings and know where the root note is in the various chord forms and you'll be good to go for a while.

cheers,

[jessmanca]

I would say that I never use what you mean when you say "bar chords".

You never use bar chords? seriously? I mean I know all the other chord shapes but I still use bar chords pretty frequently. I mean the E Major shape bar chord is the overtone series in order, you can't go wrong with that sound, I use it often for hard hitting moments like choruses. Also, if you're going for bass/soprano counterpoint, you are going to run into bar chords every few chords naturally anyway if you are using triads. Alternate tunings bring a whole new sound and possibilities to bar chords. And it's okay to use the english spelling, I never got why people find it necessary to always use the italian/latin/german/french spellings of everything in music. We say pick not plectrum, guitar not guitarre, why can't we say bar instead of barre? Whenever I compose something I write all the special dynamics and effects in english, if i have to learn some italian to learn to read their music, they should have to learn some english to read mine. (/end tangent)

[tamborin]

bar chords is not that difficult to learn. . well unless if you're a starter. . focus on the basic first. .the shifting of chords is the difficult part. .you just have to get use to the shifting part. .before you get to the bar chords. . you can actually mix them up. . you can use the open chords and bar chords..

[Crossroads]

Ha, ha...well several things in this thread are mildly confusing.

First, I'm not sure Jed really meant to say he never uses barre chords (that would be very strange). But secondly - the OP seems to link the learning of barre chords with sharps and flats, but of course they really have nothing particularly to do with barre chords. Then there’s the question of “barre” vs. “bar”, but....

Gidster - the value of barre chords is that once you've learnt a shape (say the Emin shape with a barre), then you can move that exact same shape all over the neck (ie putting the barre at any fret) to form a new chord with a new name ... the new name simply comes from the root note (so that's why it's essential to know where the root note is ... it's usually the lowest note on either the 6th string or 5th string).

If barre chords seem awkward at first, then just think back to what it felt like when you first tried to play any open-position chord ... 99.9% of players found those open chords very awkward at first, and when they started it seem almost impossible to change smoothly from one chord to the next ... everyone goes through that. Same with barre chords ... it feels awkward, can be painful, but it just needs plenty of practice. And as an obstacle to playing, chord shapes are less than 0.1% of all the difficulties you'll encounter if you want to be a good guitar player ... I don't say that to appear "flash" or put you off, but on the contrary just to say...chords are really not that bad, so just "up your game" a bit, stick at it, and it will be fine.

You do need a good chord book though. And preferably one that explains how each chord is constructed from the scale notes (maybe that's what the OP meant about #'s and b's?), and from which you can see the interval shapes on the fretboard (it's very important to recognise the interval patterns between each of the notes ... that will teach you a lot about chord formation & about music & playing in general ... "INTERVALS", very important!). And for chords I'd recommend Chris Juergensen's book "The Infinite Guitar" (also has 100 pages on solo improvisation with all sorts of scales & arpeggios set against various chord types).

So that’s what I’d do - get the book, practice the chords, be sure you know where the root notes are. And using the book you’ll also become familiar with the scale notes and intervals in each chord ... use the rest of the book to go on to chord-progressions and soloing over the chords with scales and arps, etc.

Ian.

[Blutwulf]

And it's okay to use the english spelling, I never got why people find it necessary to always use the italian/latin/german/french spellings of everything in music.For my part it is simply habit. A lot of my early instruction materials were from English publishers. I still think "semitone," for instance, but call it a half-step nowadays. As far as "bar" versus "barre," I just wanted to avoid confusing a novice with chords one plays in a bar band and chords one plays with a barre, if you see what I mean...

[gidster]

thanks everyone for your replies, sorry for useing the incorrect bar:D and ill keep a look out for the books mentioned.

i know how to play bar chords the root e and root a's its just the changing chords as with open chords, im just not quick enough, but i know that will come with practice.

do you guys find it easier to play bar chords or open chords? and do you use them instead of open chords?

[Jed]

hmmmm, . . . Jessmanca and Crossroads' comments caused me to re--think my statement. I thought that maybe I was being too narrow-minded in my definition of barre chords. So I googled the term to see if that was the case. I did check a bunch of different sources but Wiki describes my understanding as concisely as I could ever hope to explain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barre_chords

OK, so maybe my use of never was a little strong but the truth is I almost never use the "Grand Barre" forms (all two of them) which is what I believe the OP was asking about. Instead, I use 4-note triad voicings and drop-2 / drop-3 voicings where other players use "Grand Barres".

For example for:
an A major in 5th position, I use 5x765x instead of 577655
an A dom7 in 5th position, I use 5x565x (2nd finger bar) instead of 575655
an A minor in 5th position, I use 5x755x (2nd finger bar) instead of 577555
an A minor7 in 5th position, I use 5x555x (1st finger bar) instead of 575555

a D major in 5th position, I use x5777x (3rd finger bar) or x5x775 instead of 557775
a D dom7 in 5th position, I use x5757 (1st finger bar)x or x5x575 (2nd finger bar) instead of 557575
a D minor in 5th position, I use x5776x or x5x765 instead of 557765
a D minor7 in 5th position, I use x5756x (1st finger bar) or x5x565 (2nd finger bar) instead of 557565

Of course these voicings use many of the same note locations as the grand barres in the 5th position, but I don't play these voicings as grand barres (where the 1st finger frets both the bass and the soprano voices). I should explain that my choice of voicing is as much about manual efficiency as sound. The voicings I prefer to use, provide for rapid chord changes and don't overly "fill" the sound scape. I've got nothing against grand barre chords, I just find that I can do more and do it more quickly and efficiently with other voicings.

90% of the voicings I use are either 4-note triad or drop-2 7th chord voicings on the ADGB or DGBE string sets. The remaining 10% are rootless shell voicings with an added extension. My focus while playing rhythm is to create melodic lines within the chord changes so I need to keep as many fingers as free as possible.

Recently I've been working on some of the less common drop-3 voicings on the ExDGB & AxGBE string sets as well as the drop-2 voicings on the EADG string set. I had no idea that what I was doing was so distant from the norm. I guess I don't play much of the popular stuff or at least I don't play it as others do?

cheers and Rock On !!

Jed

[Jed]

thanks everyone for your replies, sorry for useing the incorrect bar:D and ill keep a look out for the books mentioned.

i know how to play bar chords the root e and root a's its just the changing chords as with open chords, im just not quick enough, but i know that will come with practice.

do you guys find it easier to play bar chords or open chords? and do you use them instead of open chords?

LOL, No worries about "bar" vs "barre", Jessmanca is right it doesn't really matter. Your hands will get used to the bar chords. In general open chords sound different than bar chords due to the open strings, so you'll want to play around which when you use which voicing.

My issue with efficiency is a large part of why I don't use barre chords. Barre chords "lock" the first finger and hence the hand into a small area. I prefer to keep my fingers and hands moving so I use voicings that allow me to do that.

Keep working on those moveable chord forms (the grand barres are just two of some 40 moveable forms). Everyone has to go through the stage that you are going through now. Keep at it, it will come to you.

cheers,

Jed

[Blutwulf]

do you guys find it easier to play bar chords or open chords? and do you use them instead of open chords?I can do the E- and A-shaped stuff in my sleep. I default to it when reading chord charts and learning new songs. However, as Jed points out, the voicings can sound like a "wall of crap," so I will usually, once I become familiar with the changes and sequence, substitute in voicings that sound better, including any open chords that work better.

[Crossroads]

do you guys find it easier to play bar chords or open chords? and do you use them instead of open chords?

They're all the same really, both just as easy or just as hard depending on how awkward the shape is or whether it's a particularly big stretch (in which case I usually find a simpler fingering)

I like the sound of open chords...to me they often sound fuller and more resonant, but I play barre chords far more because I'm usually trying to play rhythm and lead at the same time, so it's easier if the chord is around the same position as the solo stuff. Often I'll just play a chord fragment, eg just a 3-note chord, maybe omitting the root and/or the 5th. Power chords are useful too sometimes (ie just root and 5th).

You have to do a bit of work to get Chris's book, because it's privately printed (details on his website...just Google his name). It's worth it though.

Another good book, inexpensive and easy to get, is "Building a Jazz Chord Solo" by Fred Sokolow. That's unusual because it's not simply a list of chord diagrams. Instead it's a simple introduction to the theory behind common chord progressions (eg ii-V-I, or iii-vi-ii-V-I etc), with 4 songs notated in several versions with different options for the chords, eg chord substitutions, inversions, & fragments. It's a very simple book, but will give you loads of ideas for "unusual/fancy" jazz chords (inc. full notation & full Tab, plus a demo CD).

Ian.

[gidster]

thanks again for all you replies;)

[Malcolm]

One More! For what it is worth.

I too very seldom use the classic barre. My hands are small, so I jumped over barre and went directly to CAGED. I find the E, D and A pattern get the job done for me. As I'm comping 99% of the time I really do not get excited if I do not use all 6 strings. That is the bass' domain. In fact I use a modified A pattern - short barre on the 2, 3 & 4 string quite a lot.

Always more than one way to make those chords.