Using scales and chords to make licks

[urucoug]

I've played for a couple years, and know my scales, chords, and notes pretty well. I'm trying to learn the solos that other people do better, and come up with my own (and spruce things up in general).

I think it would be easier to follow some of these solos if I knew the fundamentals behind what they're doing. I'm looking for a starting point. What are some general guidelines?

What resources could you point to that can help me take chords and scales and make licks? (If it's anything commercial, please just send me a private message, to keep the thread clean).

[Malcolm]

I think it would be easier to follow some of these solos if I knew the fundamentals behind what they're doing. I'm looking for a starting point. What are some general guidelines?

I've been looking for the same thing. Here is where I am on my journey:

There are 12 notes (sounds) that we in the Western World use over and over, seven of those notes sound like they belong together, they form a "family" of notes.

Expanding on this --- for some reason the odd number notes sound good together. Thus the 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 15 give two octaves of "good sounding" notes. Not surprising this points us to harmonizing chordal tones. In my study one source said when using the C scale get the F out. I found that interesting, but, as you see F is an even number and on top of that is not part of the Major pentatonic scale. If there were just one thing I could point you to it would be -- trust your pentatonics.

Putting the notes on a staff, the "wave action" they portray dictates the melody you have produced. Straight line little or no wave action, boring. large wave action, contrast perhaps confusion. The middle ground seems to be comfortable. I enjoy sailing with some wind and some wave action, the two extremes produce boredom or fear.

Expanding on this --- short interval distance produces one feeling and large interval distance produces another feeling.

There is no golden rule or Rosetta Stone. I've stopped looking for the magic formula. If there were one everything would sound the same --- so grab your 12 notes, rely upon the "family of notes" that will produce what you are wanting, look to the odd notes in that family, be aware of the wave action and the interval distance --- in other words, just use the good notes, don't use the bad ones.

[JonR]

I've played for a couple years, and know my scales, chords, and notes pretty well. I'm trying to learn the solos that other people do better, and come up with my own (and spruce things up in general).

I think it would be easier to follow some of these solos if I knew the fundamentals behind what they're doing. I'm looking for a starting point. What are some general guidelines?

What resources could you point to that can help me take chords and scales and make licks? (If it's anything commercial, please just send me a private message, to keep the thread clean).
General guidelines:

1. Chord tones.
Start licks and phrases on chord tones. End them on a chord tone (on any chord further down the line). Use a few chord tones in between to "anchor" the phase to the harmony.
This presupposes you know all the possible chord shapes for every chord in the sequence. So you can skip easily from chord tone to chord tone in any direction, in any place on the neck.
(The chord tones of a whole sequence probably comprise the scale, so you don't need to know scale patterns at all if you use this method.)
Remember chord tones - at least in jazz - can include 7 and 9 as well as 1-3-5, and maybe 6, 11 or #11, depending on chord type and function (but this is advanced - stick to 1-3-5 if in doubt.

2. Chromaticism.
Defined as any note outside the current tonality (chord+extensions, or local key). Use like herbs or spices in cooking. Adds tang, drama, surprise.
(Tip: as with spice, don't overdo it. Resolve chromatic notes by moving to the nearest chord tone.)

3. Melody.
Learn the vocal melody of the song you are improvising on, by heart. Plunder it for raw material that you can twist to your evil ends... mwahahahaha...

4. Hum a phrase in your head (or even out loud) before you play it. This presupposes you have enough space after your previous phrase to think about it ;) .
(Tip: leave space between phrases to consider your next plan of action. Space in a solo doesn't sound like you've run out of ideas. It creates suspense, draws attention, makes it look like you're planning something - even if you're not. Gives your next phrase more impact.)

5. Use repetition.
Got a little lick you like? Play it again.

6. Use repetition.
Got a little lick you like? Play it again.

7. Use repetition.
Got a little lick you like? Play it again - and then change the end of it. (See, sounds musical, right?)

8. Don't forget about....

... :rolleyes:....

....TIMING!

and RHYTHM.
When you play something (in relation to the beat) can have more impact than what you actually play.

9. K.I.S.S. (Keep it simple, stupid.)
Everyone can hear MELODY and RHYTHM. Only the most sophisticated listener will appreciate fancy harmonic tricks you might be playing (THIS scale over THAT chord).

[urucoug]

So, tell me if I'm getting what you are saying.

For example, sometimes when I'm messing around on guitar, I like to play a D - Am - Em - D progression.

So, a good starting point, if I want to mess around when I'm playing these chords are to use the D maj Pentatonic Scale, then Am Pentatonic, then Em pentatonic, starting on the 1st, 3rd, or 4th degree of the pentatonic scale, also ending on one of them--and then just try some variations of that?

So, play the pentatonic scale in whatever chord you're using in the progression, mostly starting and ending on one of the chord tones?

[Malcolm]

Pretty much. JonR will go into more detail.

Chords and scales are comfortable with each other when both have some of the same notes. Look what happens below:

D Chord has these notes D, F#, A
D Major Pentatonic has these notes D, E, F#, A, B

Am Chord has these notes A, C, E
A minor pentatonic has these notes A, C, D, E, G

Em Chord has these notes E, G, B
E minor pentatonic has these notes E, G, A, B, D

See how this works out - the majority of the notes are chord tones - you need some non-chord tones to add interest.

{EDIT} The real question always comes back to -- in what order do you play the D Major Pentatonic notes? In scale order it will always sound like the D Major Pentatonic scale, which is not all that interesting ......... :rolleyes: Do you suppose it has anything to do with experimentation and practice?

You may find this chord/scale generator handy:

www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/guitar/index_rb.html

[JonR]

So, tell me if I'm getting what you are saying.

For example, sometimes when I'm messing around on guitar, I like to play a D - Am - Em - D progression.

So, a good starting point, if I want to mess around when I'm playing these chords are to use the D maj Pentatonic Scale, then Am Pentatonic, then Em pentatonic, starting on the 1st, 3rd, or 4th degree of the pentatonic scale, also ending on one of them--and then just try some variations of that?

So, play the pentatonic scale in whatever chord you're using in the progression, mostly starting and ending on one of the chord tones?Yes, you've got the idea.
Just to be clear: for major chords, use the major pent, which has no 4th.
Major pent: 1-2-3-5-6 = 1-3-5 chord tones, plus 2 and 6
Minor pent: 1-b3-4-5-b7 = 1-b3-5 chord tones, plus 4 and b7

The trick is to find chord shapes (and patterns) that are in the same area of the neck.
You'll see from Malcolm's post that there are lot of shared notes in your sequence, from chord to chord and scale to scale. This is no accident, and is the case with most chord sequences - they tend to share one overall scale.
In this case, it's the G major scale, which contains all 3 pents in question.
So you could just pick any pattern of G major and solo freely over all the chords!
But the advantage in thinking in chord tones and pents is that your solo will then reflect the changes, and you'll be in no danger of hitting a bad sounding note.
At the same time, it's important to realise the affinity between all your chords, the scale notes they share.
Eg, notice the A, E and D notes are shared across all 3 pents. You can get interesting effects by sometimes repeating a shared note across all the chords, while other times focussing on notes that differ.
In cases like this (where all chords belong to the same key) experiment by playing the "wrong" pent on one of the chords. Eg, how does Em pent sound on Am? Or Am pent on D? (Ans: good in both cases, while Am pent on Em may not work so well.)

At the same time, don't feel you need to stick to pents (to be "safe") if you spot a line that will run between chord tones via some other note(s).
The idea is to be aware of the "foundation" tones ("safe" notes that always work) and build more interesting stuff from there.

[urucoug]

Great, thanks, guys! Sounds like a great starting point.

[Sperzel]

Hi!

I also have a little tip on a video by scott henderson. or part of a video actually haha. It's great, puts a new perspective on your soloing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGKNNyKSb5g&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wB9IUqfL28&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoP4u-Gfaww&feature=related

unfortunatly not complete, but most of the important stuff is there :)

cheers!

[Malcolm]

Really relate to his analogy of sentence and paragraph. I come from Country - there is a story to be told, with out the story there is no need for the song.

So I relate to verse and lyric structure. Once we have a verse built -- we use that same basic structure for verse 2 and 3. The lyric will change, but the notes (melody) need not. Now this is where the vocalist keeps it interesting - the listener is now involved (listening to) the words. My point - the melody is just repeated - the words are changed -- the listener is involved wanting to hear the outcome of the story. Without a vocalist telling the story you have to expand the phrase and keep the interest with embellishments on the basic structure.

Instrumentals must rely upon notes - instead of a story - to keep the interest. How is that done? Brings us back to my OP about wave action and interval distance....... modifications of the original phrase. Wave action take the phrase from a lower range to an upper range and then back again. Interval distance - experiment with broad note movement.

:rolleyes: ... :cool: ... :)

[urucoug]

Malcolm, that chord/scale generator is beautiful. It will definitely come in handy. And I really appreciate everybody's advice.

A follow-up question, if I may:
When soloing along with someone else's chord progression, do you generally change base notes for the pentatonic scale every time they switch a chord, or do you stay on the same chord if it shares notes, etc? Does anyone have some general pointers for this?

Thanks again.

[jessmanca]

Odd question. If you know all your scales and chords... just use creativity. Mix and match them in various ways and use lots of rhythmic interest... a little imagination goes a long way. Hear something in your head and try to play it with the chords and sclaes you know.

[Malcolm]

When soloing along with someone else's chord progression, do you generally change base notes for the pentatonic scale every time they switch a chord, or do you stay on the same chord if it shares notes, etc? Does anyone have some general pointers for this?
Either way. Right at first you do not have to switch whenever the chord changes, just play the Key scale - lets say we are in the key of C you could just play the C Major scale over the entire chord progression. Or as you say revert to pentatonic and play the C Major pentatonic(1, 2, 3, 5, 6 - C, D, E, G, A) over the C chord, F Major pentatonic (F, G, A, C, D) over the F chord and the G pentatonic (G, A, B, D, E) over the G chord.

Notice all those note choices use only notes found in the C Major scale.

What if the progression has a minor chord, how do you handle that?

We've seen how C, F and G major pentatonic work, how about D, E and A minor pentatonic? The minor pentatonic work because the notes of those minor pentatonic scales all fall within the C scale also.

D minor pentatonic (1, b3, 4, 5, b7) or D, F, G, A, C
E minor pentatonic E, G, A, B, D
A minor pentatonic A, C, D, E, G

So if your progression had a Dm, Em or Am chord you just play the corresponding minor pentatonic pattern over those minor chords. Major pentatonic over Major chords and minor pentatonic over minor chords.

One exception you should be aware of -- if you have a minor diminished chord the minor pentatonic will produce one note that will clash. I just ignore any minor diminished chord.

Have fun.

Malcolm

[JonR]

A follow-up question, if I may:
When soloing along with someone else's chord progression, do you generally change base notes for the pentatonic scale every time they switch a chord, or do you stay on the same chord if it shares notes, etc? Does anyone have some general pointers for this?
Normally several chords in a row will share (all be derived from) the same 7-note scale. Sometimes this applies to a whole song.
So if you know that scale, you can often just feel free to explore that regardless of the chord changes.
However, it's usually good to take notice of the changes.
To do this, you should ideally be able to play all the chord shapes within the same position on the neck (within the same 4 or 5 frets).
Then study how the pentatonic of each chord root (major pent for major chord, minor pent for minor chord) begins with the 3 chord tones (root, 3rd 5th) and adds 2 other notes. The major pent adds 2nd and 6th, the minor pent adds 4th and b7th.
These notes will always sound right. You can't play a bad note with this strategy. (Unless you hit a diminished chord as Malcolm says, but they're pretty rare in rock.)
The pent method works even if the chords are not all in the same key.
But here's how it would work with a common sequence (I-V-vi-IV) in C major:
CHORD ARPEGGIO PENTATONIC
C C E G C D E G A
G G B D G A B D E
Am A C E A C D E G
F F A C F G A C DNotice the scales all have a few notes in common (C major pent and A minor pent are identical). You can capitalise on this by keeping shared notes across the chords - to show their affinity - or focussing on the different notes, to highlight the changes.
Both strategies are good, and have different effects.

There are an additional 2 notes in each case from the C major scale. It's a slightly more advanced process to be able to incorporate these tastefully (they don't always fit in as straightforward a way as the pents) - but well worth experimenting.
Eg, on the C chord, the additional notes are F (4th) and B (maj7). Jazz players call the 4th an "avoid note", because it clashes with the E - but that only means you need to be careful with it. The B will give a particular emotional quality to the chord: a kind of melancholy sweetness.
On the G chord, the extra notes are C and F. Again, the C (4th) is an "avoid note", but the F is the b7, adding a useful tension (making the chord a "dominant 7th")

When using these other notes (or even when using the arpeggios or pentatonics) try to find a way of leading from one chord to the next. Any note you're playing over one chord will usually lead by a scale step to a note on the next chord - or it may be shared by the next chord.

IOW, it's all about being aware of which notes the chords have in common, and which notes are different. And then deciding how you want to treat this information.

Your ultimate aim is create melodic and rhythmic phrases. A great help in this is to learn how the vocal melody goes. With any song you want to improvise on, learn to play the tune first. It will give you lots of ideas for phrases you can steal and/or develop for a solo.
Remember rhythmic ideas are usually at least as effective as melodic ones - and usually more effective than fancy harmonic ones. Repetition of very simple phrases can also work well.
IOW, don't get too hung up on how well each note fits the current chord! It's more important how well it links to the notes before and after.

[funkygarzon]

hey you guys are amazing man ,wonderful tips thanks a lot, i have one question ,please clarify my question ,i need the best exercise for my left hand finger(for left hand ,fast placement of notes in fred board) and to right hand(for right hand "string skipping " exercise")...thanks in advance for providing me the best exercise........i hope you all will give the best answer for me..............