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funkygarzon
04-22-2009, 01:14 PM
hi guys,
1.please guys help me in teaching the particular notes to be used in the particular chord in particular root note say C i.e., while playing in c[root] major scale if the chord changed to some f[relative chords]or g [relative chords] i couldn't able to play the exact notes which matches that chords so please help me guys
and also i need to learn to play good lick in the particular chord rotation i mean in am,f,g and c,f,g,f and ext ,actaully i am confused in playing the licks in the particular chords like this ,and all time if i try to play some lick i can able to produce only same kind of lick ....so please hlp me to learn the effective licks and how to play a different kind of licks which must played in the particular chord ration

funkygarzon
04-22-2009, 04:09 PM
please some one reply me .....can you guys understand my request ? .....:(

metaljustice83
04-22-2009, 04:27 PM
you might want to try to break your question up into a bit more parts. Its a bit confusing as to what your asking.

-matt

Malcolm
04-22-2009, 04:33 PM
Yes I'm having a little problem knowing what you want.

1.please guys help me in teaching the particular notes to be used in the particular chord in particular root note say C i.e., while playing in c[root] major scale if the chord changed to some f[relative chords]or g [relative chords] i couldn't able to play the exact notes which matches that chords so please help me guys
Need two things - the notes in each major scale. http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11975 You will find what you need on the second post.
Then the chord formula to use to make the chord.
http://www.smithfowler.org/music/Chord_Formulas.htm Combine those two things and you can make any chord.

Any Major chord is made from the 1, 3 & 5 notes of the scale so......
C Chord would be C E G
F chord would be F A C
G chord would be G B D
G7 chord would be G B D F

... and also i need to learn to play good lick in the particular chord rotation i mean in am,f,g and c,f,g,f and ext ,actually i am confused in playing the licks in the particular chords like this ,and all time if i try to play some lick i can able to produce only same kind of lick ....so please help me to learn the effective licks and how to play a different kind of licks which must played in the particular chord ration
Good licks -- For melody notes and chords to sound good with each other both should contain some of the same notes. When your melody notes move on to notes not found in the old chord you ear tells you that you no longer are harmonizing -- and you need to find another chord that does contain some of the notes found in the new melody. That's important, if it did not sink in go back and read that again. OK - let's turn that around. If you know the chord you know what notes will sound good over it. For example:

Good licks (melodic phrases) normally contain chord tones (notes) of the chord you are playing over. That being the case over the C chord your lick notes should hang out around the C E and G notes. Over the F chord you should hang out around the F A and C notes. You do not have to keep up with the specific notes necessary IF you play pentatonic patterns........ Let the pattern put the safe notes under your fingers. If you are playing over a Dm chord the D minor pentatonic pattern will automatically place just safe notes for you.

Look to the pentatonic scales. Over major chords play the major pentatonic and over minor chords play the minor pentatonic. Here is why:

C Chord = these notes C E G
C Major pentatonic = these notes C D E G A -- so -- Three of those pentatonic notes will be safe (good) the D and A will not sound bad, however can best be utilized as passing notes, i.e. not downbeat notes and don't end the phrase on them.

Is there more to this? Yes, however, this will get you started.

Good luck.

Malcolm

funkygarzon
04-22-2009, 04:39 PM
Malcolm (http://member.php?u=2368),

u are absolutely correct i am weak in english ......thank you mate


Look to the pentatonic scales. Over major chords play the major pentatonic and over minor chords play the minor pentatonic. Here is why:

C Chord = these notes C E G
C Major pentatonic = these notes C D E G A

but Malcolm (http://member.php/?u=2368),
i couldn't able to understand clearly can you please able to exaplain me some what ?????thank you

Malcolm
04-22-2009, 04:45 PM
Look to the pentatonic scales. Over major chords play the major pentatonic and over minor chords play the minor pentatonic. Here is why:

C Chord = these notes C E G
C Major pentatonic = these notes C D E G A

The C scale has these notes.
Note interval 1, 2,. 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
C Scale....... C, D, E, F, G, A, B
As a Major chord is made from the 1, 3 and 5 note of the scale.......
A C Major chord would have the C E and G notes in it.

A Major pentatonic scale is made from the 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6 notes of the scale
So the C Major pentatonic scale would have the C D E G and A notes.

You need charts from those two sites I gave you to know what notes -- I failed to give you warning what a major pentatonic scale formula was.

A minor pentatonic scale will use the 1, b3, 4, 5 and b7 notes of the MAJOR scale. b3 means flat the 3rd interval and b7 means to flat the seventh interval.
Scale interval....1, 2, 3, .4, 5, 6, 7
D Major scale is D. E .F# G A. B .C#
So the D minor pentatonic scale would include the D F G A C notes.

Better?

funkygarzon
04-22-2009, 04:57 PM
sorry to distrub you Malcolm,

can you please able to exaplain me more ...cos the major pentatonic and relative minor pentatoniv has same note but how to give a diffrent feel while playing a lick ?:(

Malcolm
04-22-2009, 05:10 PM
Good question. The feel comes from the chords played under those notes.

Chew on this -- I'll be adding more.

Malcolm
04-22-2009, 05:21 PM
sorry to distrub you Malcolm,

can you please able to exaplain me more ...cos the major pentatonic and relative minor pentatoniv has same note but how to give a diffrent feel while playing a lick ?:(
Good question - the chords used under those notes give the Major or minor feel.

Scale interval....1, 2, 3, .4, 5, 6, 7
D Major scale is D. E .F# G A. B .C#

To find the chords in the Key of D Major you use this formula:
I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, viidim

Scale interval....1, 2,.. 3, ...4,. 5,.. 6,... 7
D Major scale is D. E ...F#.. G ..A... B ...C#
Formula........... I..ii.....iii....IV..V... vi. .viidim
Chords for D.....D.Em .F#m G ..A ...Bm .C#dim

Now using the key formula to find the minor chords use this formula:
1, iidim, III, iv, v, VI, VII. and you come up with these chords:
Dm, Edim, F#, Gm, Am, B, C#

So if you were to play the D, G, A7, D chord progression and use Major pentatonic notes you get a major sound.

If you were to play the Dm, Gm, Am7, Dm chord progression and use the Dm pentatonic notes you get a minor sound.

Got a meeting starting - ask questions I'll answer when I get out of the meeting.

Malcolm

funkygarzon
04-23-2009, 05:29 AM
Malcolm (http://member.php?u=2368),

thanks a lot for your explaination realy you are genius man .....great ;
..thanks a lot for the relply ........:)

i have few more doudts to ask you;

mate i clearly understood which you have explained me in the above
post ,but my problem is i couldn't able to play the effective note for the chord rotation which my keyboardist plays i mean if my keyboard player playes the ratation(repetation) of chords like d,g,a,d in the root note of d major in 4/4 count i couldn't able to play the effective notes cos i don't know what are the notes should be played for a particular chord i mean notes for each and every chord (d,g,a,d)and you know we can't wait in a same note for long time so for each chord we have to play more note which shoud match the chord and also should have to give more feel ...this is my problem i hope you have understand me ....please i am weak in english sorry ,if you don't understand please tell me ....thanks in advance :)

Crossroads
04-23-2009, 07:27 AM
Check which "Key" you are playing in. You need to be sure about that.

All the chords should be from the same Key (in most songs). Then play notes from the scale that matches that key.

For example - if you are in the key of G-Major, then your basic chords are G-Major, A-minor, B-minor, C-Major, D-Major (or D7), and E-minor. All those chords come from the scale of G-Major. So play notes from the G-major scale over all those chords. That's all you need to do.

Same thing if you are playing any other Key. Say you are playing in the key of A-minor ... then just play the chords from the key of A-minor, and play an A-minor scale over all of them (to make it easier - play A-minor pentatonic scale if you want).

The point is simple - You must know which chords are in the key, and then just play a scale that matches the key.

There are lots of more complicated things you could do. But for now just do it as described above.

Ian.

funkygarzon
04-23-2009, 08:20 AM
Crossroads (member.php?u=10628),

thanks for the reply ,i understood what you have said but i need to play the effective complicated lick which should sound good , so what are all the thing i should know in single root note say C major......my friend :)

Crossroads
04-23-2009, 09:55 AM
Crossroads (http://member.php/?u=10628),

thanks for the reply ,i understood what you have said but i need to play the effective complicated lick which should sound good , so what are all the thing i should know in single root note say C major......my friend :)
OK, if you want to play what you call " an effective complicated lick which should sound good in C-Major " .... then all you have to do is try playing the different notes in the scale of C-Major, and just keep trying them until you find which notes sound good to your ears.

Ian.

funkygarzon
04-23-2009, 10:20 AM
Crossroads (member.php?u=10628),


please mate help me in giving me some lesson or some theory for the effective lick i mean the famous guitar players tips and techniques so that it will helpfull of me..thanks in advance

JonR
04-23-2009, 11:34 AM
sorry to distrub you Malcolm,

can you please able to exaplain me more ...cos the major pentatonic and relative minor pentatoniv has same note but how to give a diffrent feel while playing a lick ?:(Depends what kind of different feel you want.
If you mean major or minor, then that's determined by the chord.

Eg, if you're playing over a C major chord, then any lick you play will sound major. The "A minor pent" scale (A C D E G) will sound like C major pent, because of the chord.

Likewise, if you're playing over an Am minor chord, your licks (using the same notes) will sound minor. The "C major pent" scale (C D E G A) will sound like A minor pent, because of the chord.

To repeat - the same lick (same notes, same pattern, same order etc) will sound different depending on the chord you're playing over.
(If you don't have any chord, just playing by yourself, then ending licks on C will make them sound major, and ending them on A will make them sound minor.)

Notes that "sound good" are (in the first place) notes that are in the current chord - as Malcolm was explaining.

So if you have a C chord, then the notes C E and G will fit, and sound right. (You don't have to know these note names, just know a few shapes for the chord - and play the notes in the chord. Any order will work.)

OK - just notes in the chord is boring! So the next good notes to add are the extra two from the pentatonic of the chord root. (Again, this is what Malcolm was saying). On a C chord, that means adding D and A (2nd and 6th notes from C), to get C major pentatonic (C D E G A). (You can call this A minor pent if you like, it's the same notes, and use a pattern for that.)
These 5 notes are a lot more interesting and melodic. You can create lots of good licks out of them. You may not need any more.
Still, it's a good idea to start and end any lick with one of the chord notes (C E or G). This will round off your phrases nicely.

Same rules apply to any other chord you have. Say you have an F and a G chord:

F chord notes = F A C
add 2 to get F major pent = F G A C D

G chord notes = G B D
add 2 to get G major pent = G A B D E

or maybe an Am chord?

Am chord notes = A C E
add 2 to get A minor pent = A C D E G (this time you add 4th and 7th)

Notice there's a lot of notes in common with all these scales! In fact, they all add up to 7 different notes: C D E F G A B - which is the C major scale. (All these chords are "in the C major key".)
So in a sense that one scale is used over all the chords. But it's still good to focus on some notes more than others on each chord.

This is still all about understanding the difference between "good" notes (in-key sounds) and "bad" ones (off-key sounds). That's an important foundation.
"Inside" sounds do get dull after a while, and you can progress later to experimenting with "outside" notes (that don't fit) - although these are technically "wrong notes", they can add surprise, mood or excitement, if properly handled. But you need a good ear, some experience, and a basic knowledge of the "inside" stuff to make it work.

As well as understanding this theoretical stuff, you need to listen to players you admire and work out what they're doing yourself. Start simple (obviously!) and try to play along with some easy songs. Listen to the singer and try and repeat what they sing. If you can't get the notes right, try and get the rhythms right. You will get better at this the more you try. (Start with tab and chord charts, but only use them for reference. Listen to all the stuff that ISN'T in the tab...)

There are no short cuts here. All the great players you admire started the same way: they were once in your position, but they just sat down and tried copying the people they liked. Some of them might have had lessons, some of them might have gone to music school - but most of them (in rock music anyway) didn't. Most of them didn't know any theory (and I guess some of them still don't ;) ). Most of them didn't have the internet to ask questions on either. ;)

funkygarzon
04-23-2009, 12:33 PM
JonR (http://member.php?u=561),

thANKS a lot for your reply ...thanks :)


Depends what kind of different feel you want.
If you mean major or minor, then that's determined by the chord.

Eg, if you're playing over a C major chord, then any lick you play will sound major. The "A minor pent" scale (A C D E G) will sound like C major pent, because of the chord.

Likewise, if you're playing over an Am minor chord, your licks (using the same notes) will sound minor. The "C major pent" scale (C D E G A) will sound like A minor pent, because of the chord.

To repeat - the same lick (same notes, same pattern, same order etc) will sound different depending on the chord you're playing over.
(If you don't have any chord, just playing by yourself, then ending licks on C will make them sound major, and ending them on A will make them sound minor.)

Notes that "sound good" are (in the first place) notes that are in the current chord - as Malcolm was explaining.

So if you have a C chord, then the notes C E and G will fit, and sound right. (You don't have to know these note names, just know a few shapes for the chord - and play the notes in the chord. Any order will work.)

OK - just notes in the chord is boring! So the next good notes to add are the extra two from the pentatonic of the chord root. (Again, this is what Malcolm was saying). On a C chord, that means adding D and A (2nd and 6th notes from C), to get C major pentatonic (C D E G A). (You can call this A minor pent if you like, it's the same notes, and use a pattern for that.)
These 5 notes are a lot more interesting and melodic. You can create lots of good licks out of them. You may not need any more.
Still, it's a good idea to start and end any lick with one of the chord notes (C E or G). This will round off your phrases nicely.

Same rules apply to any other chord you have. Say you have an F and a G chord:

F chord notes = F A C
add 2 to get F major pent = F G A C D

G chord notes = G B D
add 2 to get G major pent = G A B D E

or maybe an Am chord?

Am chord notes = A C E
add 2 to get A minor pent = A C D E G (this time you add 4th and 7th)


it's a good idea to start and end any lick with one of the chord notes (C E or G). This will round off your phrases nicely.

Same rules apply to any other chord you have. Say you have an F and a G chord:

F chord notes = F A C
add 2 to get F major pent = F G A C D

G chord notes = G B D
add 2 to get G major pent = G A B D E

or maybe an Am chord?

Am chord notes = A C E
add 2 to get A minor pent = A C D E G (this time you add 4th and 7th)

mate can you able to explain me that add 2 concept add 4th and 7th concept;

and can i play the em pentatonic and dm pentatonic in C mojar root note? bcos it is also relative chords for c major scale know

funkygarzon
04-24-2009, 04:57 AM
mates Malcolm (http://member.php?u=2368) , Crossroads (http://member.php?u=10628) , JonR (http://member.php/?u=561), metaljustice83 (http://member.php?u=355)

i tried to play the pentatonic of all the relative chords of C root note ,but after finishing one phrasing i couldn't able to continue with another phrasing because i don't know how to connect the phrasing into a greate lick ,if suppose i finished a phrasing in some note say f in root scale of C i couldn't able to continue the phrasing in effective manner ...can you guys help me in giving me the theory of travelling in the single root note pentatonic scale

and also i am noob in fred board patterns so can you guys give me the effective pattern of scale(pentatonic) of C root note in guitar fretboard i mean the pattern which help us to travel from first fredboard to the last freatboard of the guitar
please help me ....mates :(:(

JonR
04-24-2009, 06:24 AM
mate can you able to explain me that add 2 concept add 4th and 7th concept;See if this helps:

Half steps: | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Scale: C . D . E F . G . A . B C
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1
Chord (major): 1 3 5 1
C major pent: 1 2 3 5 6 1

Scale: A . B C . D . E F . G . A
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1
Chord (minor): 1 3 5 1
A minor pent: 1 3 4 5 7 1Notice the pent in each case adds notes in the biggest gaps between the chord tones.


and can i play the em pentatonic and dm pentatonic in C mojar root note? bcos it is also relative chords for c major scale knowYes.
Em pentatonic fits the G chord (same as G major pent)
Dm pentatonic fits the F chord (same as F major pent)

Em pent will work over the C chord too, but is a little more "outside", more jazzy. Even more so over the F.
So you could apply Em pent over all the chords (C-F-G), but check you like the sound of it over C and F.
(Am pent will work on C and F but not too well over G. Dm pent will work on F and G but not too well over C.)

JonR
04-24-2009, 06:43 AM
i tried to play the pentatonic of all the relative chords of C root note ,but after finishing one phrasing i couldn't able to continue with another phrasing because i don't know how to connect the phrasing into a greate lick ,if suppose i finished a phrasing in some note say f in root scale of C i couldn't able to continue the phrasing in effective manner ...can you guys help me in giving me the theory of travelling in the single root note pentatonic scale

and also i am noob in fred board patterns so can you guys give me the effective pattern of scale(pentatonic) of C root note in guitar fretboard i mean the pattern which help us to travel from first fredboard to the last freatboard of the guitar
please help me ....mates :(:(Connecting phrasing effectively is indeed an important skill. You need to have an idea of a note on the next chord - a "target" note - you can aim to land on.
Of course, you need to know all the note positions, to give yourself the most choice.

Here's the full pattern for C major pent, up to 12th fret:


C MAJOR / A MINOR PENTATONIC
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
E||---|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|---|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|
||-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|---|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|---|
G||---|-A-|---|---|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|---|---|-G-|
D||---|-E-|---|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|---|-C-|---|-D-|
A||---|---|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|---|---|-G-|---|-A-|
E||---|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|---|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|
After 12th fret it repeats (fret 13 = fret 1, etc).

You can pull any pattern you like out of that, taking 3 or 4 frets at a time, and they should all overlap.

Here's charts for Dm/F and Em/G pent:


F MAJOR / D MINOR PENTATONIC
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
||-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|---|-C-|---|-D-|---|---|
-||-C-|---|-D-|---|---|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|---|
G||---|-A-|---|---|-C-|---|-D-|---|---|-F-|---|-G-|
D||---|---|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|---|-C-|---|-D-|
A||---|---|-C-|---|-D-|---|---|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|
-||-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|---|-C-|---|-D-|---|---|

G MAJOR / E MINOR PENTATONIC
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
E||---|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|---|-D-|---|-E-|
B||---|---|-D-|---|-E-|---|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|
G||---|-A-|---|-B-|---|---|-D-|---|-E-|---|---|-G-|
D||---|-E-|---|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|---|-D-|
A||---|-B-|---|---|-D-|---|-E-|---|---|-G-|---|-A-|
E||---|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|---|---|-D-|---|-E-|
Notice that you can stay in any position on the neck and move from one pent to another without having to change very much. There's only one note different between C and F pent and between C and G; and 2 notes different between F and G pent.
The notes G, A and D are included in all of them. It's the Cs, Es, Fs and Bs that change.

All 3 patterns together add up to the C major scale. You should make your own chart showing the full C major scale, and try and work out some patterns from that. (You should also be able to work out some alternative shapes for each chord, in different places on the neck, seeing as you now know which notes are required for each chord. ;) )
Put some work in here with these charts (extend them beyond 12th fret), mapping out chord shapes and scale patterns - and playing them of course! - and you will learn a LOT.
(You can of course look these things up on the internet, but you benefit more by doing it yourself. All the information you need is here - at least for the C major key.)

funkygarzon
04-24-2009, 06:44 AM
JonR,

i understood clearly the answer for posts .......thank you :)


another thing mate if i want to play a run through(fast lick)over a pentatonic scale in C root note which pattern will be the best one ?please try to suggest one or 2 pattern for now i mean which pattern is most offen used by great guitarist in root note C major ......thanks in advance

JonR
04-24-2009, 07:18 AM
JonR,

i understood clearly the answer for posts .......thank you :)


another thing mate if i want to play a run through(fast lick)over a pentatonic scale in C root note which pattern will be the best one ?please try to suggest one or 2 pattern for now i mean which pattern is most offen used by great guitarist in root note C major ......thanks in advance you mateI'd say the 5-8 fret pattern normally thought of as "A minor" pent. Just make sure you use the Cs as the root notes.
I use this pattern, but often slide up to the 8-10 fret position, at least on top 3 or 4 strings.
Each pattern lends itself to different kinds of phrases, so it's worth working with each one, getting it under your fingers; experimenting with slides, hammer-ons, etc.

Remember we're still talking "inside" major scale sounds here (suitable for country, rockabilly, soul or rock ballads). If you want dirtier blues/rock sounds, it's C MINOR pent you need (just move any of the patterns up 3 frets - eg try the 5-8 fret pattern moved up to 8-11 frets).

funkygarzon
04-24-2009, 10:29 AM
thank you JonR ,


but often slide up to the 8-10 fret position, at least on top 3 or 4 strings.

If you want dirtier blues/rock sounds, it's C MINOR pent you need (just move any of the patterns up 3 frets - eg try the 5-8 fret pattern moved up to 8-11 frets).


mate can you please explain me the above sentence some what more ...thank you

Malcolm
04-26-2009, 02:06 PM
I may have missed it, but, I do not think we have given you your basic generic patterns. Jon gave you some specific patterns -- after looking at these generic patterns see if it may be a little clearer.

http://www.cyberfret.com/scales/basic/print.html

Take that minor pentatonic pattern and start it on the 6th string 5th fret and you will have the Am pentatonic notes under your fingertips.

Now move that up to the 8th fret and you will have the Cm pentatonic notes under your fingertips.

Red dot is the root note just place the red dot on what key/scale you want to play, i.e. Major pattern on the 3rd fret and you will have G Major scale notes - place it on the 10th fret and you will have D scale notes.

Way back I had to get some transparency paper (you can see through it) and move the patterns around on a fretboard chart to see how the correct notes fall under your fingertips as you move the pattern around on the fretboard. When I did that all of a sudden it clicked.

Keep asking questions.

funkygarzon
04-27-2009, 05:29 AM
Malcolm (http://member.php?u=2368),

sorry mate to be frank with you i couldn't able to understand what you are saying .....:confused:

JonR
04-27-2009, 08:14 AM
thank you JonR ,





mate can you please explain me the above sentence some what more ...thank youOK, I'll try...

C MAJOR PENTATONIC (5th position) (also known as A minor pentatonic)
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
||---|---|---|---|-A-|---|---|-C-|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-E-|---|---|-G-|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-C-|---|-D-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-D-|---|-E-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-A-|---|---|-C-|---|---|---|---|

C MINOR PENTATONIC (8th position) (also known as Eb major pentatonic)
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-C-|---|---|-C-|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-G-|---|---|-Bb|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-Eb|---|-F-|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-Bb|---|-C-|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-F-|---|-G-|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-C-|---|---|-Eb|---|The idea is that you use both (or either) of these over a C major chord. (which is why they're called C major and C minor in this case, rather than the alternative names.)
The first one will give you a very "inside" sound, suitable for plain major key soloing, in soul, country or rock ballad style.
The second one (same pattern moved up 3 frets), combined with a C major chord in the rhythm, gives you a "C blues" sound.
Blues sound comes from mixing a major chord with a minor scale. This pattern has Eb in it, against the E natural in the chord. This clash defines the blues sound. You also get the b7, Bb.
For a real blues sound, bend the Eb, F and Bb notes - to varying amounts, judging by ear how far you need to go.

The important thing to remember is that in a blues tune, you use ONE minor pent scale over ALL the chords. (Eg, when it goes to F and G, you stay with C minor pent.) (That's another reason rock beginners like it! Not only does it sound funky, you only need to know one scale! :) )

With major pents, you can also stick with the key pentatonic (C major pent in C major, over F and G chords as well), which is very much a gospel/soul sound.
OR, you can use the major pent of each chord, which is more "inside", sounds more like you're following the sequence. (Hendrix liked using major pents both ways.)
The latter is an easier strategy for a beginner - that is, it's harder in that you need to change scales, but easier to make it sound good; you simply can't play a bad note this way.
With the former (one major pent over all chords) it needs some sensitivity as to the odd note that might sound wrong against a chord. IOW, although you use the same scale, you use it slightly differently on each chord, which is something you can only judge from experience and experiment (trial and error).
In fact, the same thing applies to using the minor pent. Easy on the face of it, but it's a a cliche, and it's hard to make it sound really good.

funkygarzon
04-27-2009, 09:30 AM
JonR,

i understood clearly the information u have given ,but i tried play the Cm pent in C major scale it really feels good as you siad like blues but some note goes away from the scale .is there any way to make those particular note sound inside the scale with out omitting that note ...thank you mate

JonR
04-27-2009, 10:33 AM
JonR,

i understood clearly the information u have given ,but i tried play the Cm pent in C major scale it really feels good as you siad like blues but some note goes away from the scale .is there any way to make those particular note sound inside the scale with out omitting that note ...thank you mateBend it! ;) (But don't forget the "outside" sound matters - it ain't blues without a bit of clashing...;) )
Just listen to good blues players. Learning blues (as with all music, but more so with blues) is all about listening and copying. That's how the "originals" did it (copying the "originals" before them).
You have the basic raw material (there are other patterns for the minor pent, but you can look them up). How to use it is down to serious listening.

You're not using quite the right terms, btw. You don't play "Cm pent in C major scale" - you play it in the C major key. That means over major chords C, F and G. (And in blues those can all be 7 chords: C7, F7, G7 - this helps the blues scale fit better, at least on C7 and F7.)

It is fairly common for soloists to flip between minor pent and major pent (same root note), or minor pent and major scale. That's quite tricky, and you need to keep your ears open for what works.
The idea is to create a good balance between "in" and "out". Too much "in" = safe, boring. Too much "out" = unsettling, "wrong notes".
(Easy to say, much harder to do consistently! People spend a lifetime working it out...)

funkygarzon
04-27-2009, 01:04 PM
JonR,

thanks for the good explaination
you are correct people spend their life time in working on it .....too harder

Malcolm (http://member.php/?u=2368) , Crossroads (http://member.php/?u=10628) , JonR (http://member.php/?u=561), metaljustice83 (http://member.php/?u=355),

....please can you guys give me some tips and video to improve my phrasing knowlegde i mean basic thing need for phrasing like where to start? how to start? bcos i am noob

and my another problem which i am facing is my left hand finger always not under my control while playing and my right hand picking some times not sync's with left hand .And while playing alternate fast picking i couldn't able to shift from one string to another string ;with all this i couldn't able to give a different feel of lick to the chords so help me mate i don't know the basic thing ,so try to help me in some tips which all the guitarist must know i mean the exercise for finger and for the scale enchacement ext ext ...thank you.... if you didn't understand me i will try to explain clearly .. :)

Malcolm
04-27-2009, 02:23 PM
Phrasing. The following is an excellent example of how to use phrasing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0iZ1j00wSU
Yes it's piano - his left hand is playing the chord progression and his right hand is playing the melody. Pay attention to his right hand.

Copy the text message shown above the keyboard.
Short movement - between two semi-tones or two whole tones (tones close together) followed with a skip of over a 3rd in length. Simple melodic phrases. Three note phrases - repeated and walked into other octaves.

Pentatonic movement contain the three chord tones (Am pentatonic contain the three notes that make up the Am chord) plus two other notes you can use as passing notes. Hang out around the chord tones. No need for a long string of notes, that's just noise.

Base your melodic phrase upon the notes of the chord you are playing over. Those will always be safe notes.

Now the other side of the pendulum swing ---- B. B. King's phrasing is based upon the old slave call and response. The caller calls, the field hands respond. King sings and his guitar responds. His phrasing is classic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6NE_GtM5LE&feature=related

funkygarzon
04-27-2009, 02:45 PM
Malcolm (http://member.php?u=2368),

thanks you mate ..thanks a lot

mate the first which you have given for phrasing idea is good but it is so simple but it is ok realy help me ,and the another video of B.B king is gud but t he is playing the same lick for number times he is not giving diffrent phrasing with diffrent count and diff feel ...sorry to say this mate ...thank a lot:) ..

Malcolm
04-27-2009, 04:37 PM
mate the first which you have given for phrasing idea is good but it is so simple but it is ok realy help me ,and the another video of B.B king is gud but t he is playing the same lick for number times he is not giving diffrent phrasing with diffrent count and diff feel ...sorry to say this mate ...thank a lot ..
OK guys you got him, I'm history.

funkygarzon
04-27-2009, 05:16 PM
sorry Malcolm sorry for the poor english


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0iZ1j00wSU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0iZ1j00wSU)
mate the above coded video which you have given for phrasing idea is good but it is not upto my expectation it's ok this video really helped me ,


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6NE_GtM5LE&feature=related
And the another above video of B.B king is gud but he is playing the same lick for number times i mean the intellude which he play's after the singing voice comes is repeated for number of times,so my opinion is he is not playing different kind of phrasing with different feel and count .

can you able to understand me sorry again ...thank a lot ..

NG7
04-28-2009, 03:42 AM
You may be missing the point I think Malcom was trying to make if you're listening to that clip and trying to find things that are different. Try listening to the clip again and see how the things he plays relate to what he sings.

Phrasing doesn't have to be totally different all the time. It can be related to what you played before.

A sense of expectation/anticipation from a listener can be very powerful. In real-life, when do you expect/anticipate something? When you've experienced the same thing before or you have knowledge of what's happening.

Imagine listening to a solo where the guy just went off playing in a constant stream of ideas. Listeners can feel as though they've been behind or grow tired of your playing. They have nothing to grab onto mentally.

funkygarzon
04-28-2009, 05:31 AM
NG7 (http://member.php?u=11096),

mate thanks for the reply ....


A sense of expectation/anticipation from a listener can be very powerful. In real-life, when do you expect/anticipate something? When you've experienced the same thing before or you have knowledge of what's happening.

Imagine listening to a solo where the guy just went off playing in a constant stream of ideas. Listeners can feel as though they've been behind or grow tired of your playing. They have nothing to grab onto mentally.

mate please try to explain me still more the above sentence .....sorry i am very weak in english ...thank you

NG7
04-28-2009, 05:54 AM
What is important about that B.B. King video?

The things he plays on guitar are related to what he sings in the song.

What does 'related' mean?

It means the same in one area or another. For example similar in style, feeling or rhythm. Think about a love song you know where there is a man and a woman singing. The man might sing one part, and then the woman might sing something back to the man. What the woman sings back is not exactly the same, but it is still related to what the man sings before her.

Why is this way of playing important?

Because it is enjoyable for the listener to follow what you are playing. It is like reading a story. There is the part where the man meets the woman, the part where the monster steals woman, the part where the monster and the man fight and then the happy end. All of these parts are related to the story. You can go and read everything in a dictionary. Alot of words but it's silly because there is nothing related.

Is that more clear?

I feel really ridiculous right now.

funkygarzon
04-28-2009, 10:20 AM
NG7 (http://member.php?u=11096),

Really woow awesome explaination ..but sorry to distrub you .......thank you

Malcolm (http://member.php/?u=2368) , Crossroads (http://member.php/?u=10628) , JonR (http://member.php/?u=561), metaljustice83 (http://member.php/?u=355) ,NG7 (http://member.php/?u=11096),
mates please now i want to know some theory ,the theory of playing a lick after the singer sings a sentence(like B.B King does in that video ) .....please guys help me out in theory and logic :(

JonR
04-28-2009, 10:48 AM
JonR,

thanks for the good explaination
you are correct people spend their life time in working on it .....too harder

Malcolm (http://member.php/?u=2368) , Crossroads (http://member.php/?u=10628) , JonR (http://member.php/?u=561), metaljustice83 (http://member.php/?u=355),

....please can you guys give me some tips and video to improve my phrasing knowlegde i mean basic thing need for phrasing like where to start? how to start? bcos i am noob

and my another problem which i am facing is my left hand finger always not under my control while playing and my right hand picking some times not sync's with left hand .And while playing alternate fast picking i couldn't able to shift from one string to another string ;with all this i couldn't able to give a different feel of lick to the chords so help me mate i don't know the basic thing ,so try to help me in some tips which all the guitarist must know i mean the exercise for finger and for the scale enchacement ext ext ...thank you.... if you didn't understand me i will try to explain clearly .. :)Mate - if I can call you that ;) - this could go on forever. You should get yourself a private, one-on-one teacher. We're really doing our best here, but there's a limit to how much we can convey in text, or even in posting video links.

At least, if you can't get a teacher (can't afford one or can't find one), get a few beginner books and work through them. Not just one, a few. Then if you don't understand one, another one might be clearer.
There are of course 100s of websites with free lessons too (in scale practice and other technical stuff).
And there are video lessons on youtube. Varying quality, but maybe more worthwhile checking through them than being misunderstood on here... ;)

You certainly need to practice timing and left-right hand synchronisation. That's fundamental (before you get into soloing concepts).
And slow down! Good soloing is not about playing fast, or playing lots of notes. Look at (and listen to!) B B King and Miles Davis, to name just two. Amateurs play too much and too fast. Geniuses know what not to play.

JonR
04-28-2009, 11:11 AM
NG7 (http://member.php?u=11096),

Really woow awesome explaination ..but sorry to distrub you .......thank you

Malcolm (http://member.php/?u=2368) , Crossroads (http://member.php/?u=10628) , JonR (http://member.php/?u=561), metaljustice83 (http://member.php/?u=355) ,NG7 (http://member.php/?u=11096),
mates please now i want to know some theory ,the theory of playing a lick after the singer sings a sentence(like B.B King does in that video ) .....please guys help me out in theory and logic :(OK...
Listen to that B B track and listen good. Yes, he repeats himself (in the solo). But he never plays exactly the same thing; each time it's a little different. And then he extends it and goes off into something more different.
What does that remind you of?
(If you don't get it, or if that solo doesn't excite you, doesn't sound like genius, you're either not listening properly, or not ready to try it yourself...)

To me, it's like someone trying to tell you something. He starts off with a phrase. No, that's not quite it. Well, maybe it is but did you hear him? Then he'll say it again, a little different. Yeah, that's more like it. It's really like this...

IOW, the point is, what you're doing with your guitar is telling someone something important, that means so much to you it's hard to find the right words. (Man, it's so hard to find words, that you have to play it on the guitar!) I think you know how that feels....
Imagine you had to ask us a question, but only had your guitar to do it with. What would you play? More importantly, how would you play?
You might well repeat yourself, if (a) you didn't think we understood you, or (b) you thought it was so good it was worth repeating.

You might think talking (or asking questions) is too different from guitar playing to be able to connect the two ideas.
In that case, sing something to yourself. Think of any verbal phrase - even something as banal as "here is my solo". That's 5 syllables, 5 notes. How would you play that, to sound as if that's what you were saying? Or better, as if you were singing it?
Play one note on your guitar. Hum it back. Then hum what you think the next note ought to be. Play that one. If you can't find it, and play a different one instead, no matter; sing that one, and try again.

A good guitar solo (at least in blues) has to sound like someone singing (or crying, weeping, shouting, muttering, laughing, whatever).
As NG7 says, another thing B B does in that song is to play phrases between the phrases he sings. This is "call-and-response", and dates back to slave songs, work songs, gospel songs. Leader sings something, the crowd sing it back to him. In B B's case, he doesn't have a chorus, just his guitar; so he talks to his guitar and his guitar talks back. That's what this is really all about. His guitar says: "yeah man, I know just what you mean; tell it like it is".

You may think you can't sing (many of us think that). Don't worry. If you love music enough to want to play (and to want to compose or improvise), you have something you want to sing. All music is really singing by other means. So sing it with your guitar.
A singer doesn't have to sing a lot of notes to get his feeling across (whether he's singing words or not). So neither should an instrumentalist.

funkygarzon
04-28-2009, 12:32 PM
JonR,

Really you are sweet .thank you very much .,i read ur post clearly it was so impressive and worthy ....thank you mate ...:)

joeyd929
05-19-2009, 06:48 PM
Never really tried it but some players don't play it until they can sing it. Gotta try it sometime. Guess that's why benson is so good. But it doesn't have to be jazz..

funkygarzon
05-20-2009, 01:16 AM
joeyd929 (member.php?u=8790),

yes ofcourse but i can sing ,but only thing is ,in guitar i couldn't able to play effective lead (with good feel) ,i thing i need to learn many theory of scales and the professionalism in paying the lead .....so if you can please help me in giving the tips to learn to travel the entire fred board on the guitar and the different patterns and modes ext ..so that it will help me to develop my guitar skill :(