Fretboard visualisation

[bluesking]

Hello,
I was playing around with I vi ii V voice leading a bit today and came across what seems like a good visualisation tip. I expect a lot of people already use a similar system but I thought it wouldn't hurt to share...

I had problems intuitively playing a couple of inversions on the lower strings. It all got a lot easier when I started to imagine that I had a low B string (which I obviously don't). Thinking about forming a chord with a root on this imaginary B string made some of those 1st/2nd inversion shapes much more reasonable and retreivable from memory.

It makes me wonder, do any other guitarists visualise any more strings than they have on their instrument? In fact, to extend the question, does anyone have any examples of when techniques based on suspension of disbelief are useful?

[JonR]

Hello,
I was playing around with I vi ii V voice leading a bit today and came across what seems like a good visualisation tip. I expect a lot of people already use a similar system but I thought it wouldn't hurt to share...

I had problems intuitively playing a couple of inversions on the lower strings. It all got a lot easier when I started to imagine that I had a low B string (which I obviously don't). Thinking about forming a chord with a root on this imaginary B string made some of those 1st/2nd inversion shapes much more reasonable and retreivable from memory.

It makes me wonder, do any other guitarists visualise any more strings than they have on their instrument?Not me. Although I can see how it could help. I guess 7-string players might have some useful insights here... ;)
In fact, to extend the question, does anyone have any examples of when techniques based on suspension of disbelief are useful?You've lost me now!
Maybe when I try and sing, a healthy dose of suspension of disbelief comes in handy.:) (Ie, I try to forget that I know I can't sing. I try to believe I can, for as long as necessary...)
IOW, I guess this is a question of confidence. "Suspension of disbelief" is generally to do with audiences, not performers - in a theatre or cinema we have to forget we are watching actors. I haven't come across a use of the term applied to performers. What do we normally believe or accept, that it would be useful (as a musician) to forget or ignore? I think it would have to be some idea of our own inadequacy. Eg, when I play the blues, I have to try and forget that I'm a white middle-class Englishman ;) . (It works for Clapton...;)) It's then up to the audience to suspend their disbelief in the same way. We accept (or ignore) a degree of artificiality, and pretend it's "authenticity" in order to enjoy it more.
(But I get the feeling this is not quite what you're talking about... )

[bluesking]

Jon,

That is some interesting and deeply sociological stuff! I suppose I have to do the same stuff when I play blues, but to be honest, I don't even think about that. There are enough good white blues (or blues influenced) guitarists for me not to feel too self-concious.

What I was really getting at is perhaps best described as "knowledgeable dellusion" rather than suspension of disbelief. In my example I pretend I have a 7th string, and visualise notes on that string even when I know I don't have a 7th string. I found it helped me with my voice leading drills but was hoping that someone else may have some examples of a similar "knowledgeable dellusion". Maybe an even better way of describing it is simply "make believe".

[daystar]

Jon,

That is some interesting and deeply sociological stuff! I suppose I have to do the same stuff when I play blues, but to be honest, I don't even think about that. There are enough good white blues (or blues influenced) guitarists for me not to feel too self-concious.

What I was really getting at is perhaps best described as "knowledgeable dellusion" rather than suspension of disbelief. In my example I pretend I have a 7th string, and visualise notes on that string even when I know I don't have a 7th string. I found it helped me with my voice leading drills but was hoping that someone else may have some examples of a similar "knowledgeable dellusion". Maybe an even better way of describing it is simply "make believe".

Maybe you should GET a seven string and then imagine it's an eight string...I have often pondered buying a seven string guitar but you sound as if you really are ready for one with the visualizations you have aquired.

[bluesking]

As you say, if I got a 7 string I'd only have to try to visualise 8 strings! Where does it end?

I'll tell you where it ends: with 6 strings. Not because of the mental gymnastics, but because of my tiny hands!:D

In all seriousness, I don't think my technique is a particularly good one. This is because I am visualising a low B but not a high A as well. I think this means I am still more comfortable with shapes that have their roots on lower strings. Maybe I ought to improve this first. That said, it really has helped me when playing 2651 drills. For example say I need to move up a fourth to resolve the following 2nd inversion major chord via voice leading:

EADGBE
776xxx

I find it easier to imagine that the root of the chord is on the 5th fret of the (imaginary) B string like so:

BEADGBE
(5)776xxx

The required resolution is then obvious to me as:

BEADGBE
(10)977xxx

[Jed]

What you describes sounds like an accommodation to overcome a pattern-based view of these chords. I've spent so much time working with inversions (voicings and arpeggios) that I know the chords more as note sets than as shapes. Of course even inversions (when played on a guitar) project shapes as well, it's really a matter of focus. I don't project a shape to get a chord. I see the notes (projecting the note set) to see the shapes.

I've always seen what you describe as an over reliance on some sub-set of voicing / arpeggio shapes over all the other potential voicings / arpeggios. Assuming I'm understanding what you are describing, I could be wrong . . . .

[bluesking]

Yep,

That makes great sense to me Jed. I have always thought in relative terms, and don't always know the name of the note I am playing.

I think the fact that I am droptuned by half a tone causes me some problems. When I play an Eb I tend to think of it as an E. This of course means I end up playing in (what seems to me as) Ab and Eb quite a lot. Thing is, I really do like the tone and action of droptuning, so am unlikely to change this anytime soon.

Of course that doesn't mean I couldn't learn to see things in "note sets", but my sets would probably contain lots of accidentals, which somehow makes it all seem daunting.

I am always working on note knowledge, and am pretty close to being able to say which notes are contained in each diatonic triad in most keys, but I think I have a long way to go....

Many thanks.

[Jed]

bluesking,

If you are using a legit drop-tuning (every string down a half or whole-step) then I'd recommend that you continue to "think" in standard tuning. For example when you play an open "E" string, think of "E" even though it might be tuned to Eb or D. There are lot's of good reasons for this but basically you'll be transposing less. Note that once you start paying attention to keys and notes you'll be working in completely different keys than another player who isn't drop-tuned.

cheers,

[bluesking]

bluesking,

If you are using a legit drop-tuning (every string down a half or whole-step) then I'd recommend that you continue to "think" in standard tuning. For example when you play an open "E" string, think of "E" even though it might be tuned to Eb or D. There are lot's of good reasons for this but basically you'll be transposing less. Note that once you start paying attention to keys and notes you'll be working in completely different keys than another player who isn't drop-tuned.

cheers,

Thats what I'm doing, and that is what I intend to carry on with. As you say, I am playing in completely different keys from other players. This makes my note recognition a little incompatible with my theoretical area of comfort. I think I just need to familiarise myself with various "note sets" in the less straight forward keys (Ab, Eb, F# etc.)

[ragasaraswati]

I haven't thought before of the extra imaginary string. It is clever and practical. Also your avatar is illegal. :D

[bluesking]

I haven't thought before of the extra imaginary string. It is clever and practical. Also your avatar is illegal. :D

Hehe, thanks raga!

The avatar is one of the stock ones available on ibreathe so I thought it would be OK!:D

It is a pretty good one for me though because unfortunately I smoke like a chimney. :( Still, I used to do all kinds of things I shouldn't do, and cigarettes are one of the only vices I still retain. Don't start kids!

[ragasaraswati]

Still, I used to do all kinds of things I shouldn't do, ...

"I spent most of my money on women and drinks. All the rest I spent them recklessly."

-George Best