Left Handed Guitar

[Laridar]

I am left handed and I play a right handed guitar, honestly I have had no big issues sometimes I even wonder if it is a sort of advantage. Do all that many people really buy left handed guitars, I was going to start with one however immediately picking up the right handed with technical songs at age twelve and having trouble finding a lefty guitar I have seen no reason for a flipped neck.

[bluesking]

well done

[fingerpikingood]

If you string the guitar lefty on righty guitar you will only miss out on the pick protector plate and on the location of cutaways for cutaway guitars. apart from that it's the same.

if you keep it strung righty but play it lefty then in my opinion, yes you are at a disadvantage due to the layout of the strings. for example you can't thumb the low E and chord shapes are not going to be as easy. some may be easier, but i would string it the correct way if i were you and that's not already what you were doing.

if you strung it lefty on a righty guitar then there is no difference as long as you got your intonation all setup correctly, if you haven't done that, then because of the shape of your bridge and having the thick strings on the wrong parts, you won't be able to tune your guitar properly, but it will play the same.

[bluesking]

if you keep it strung righty but play it lefty then in my opinion, yes you are at a disadvantage due to the layout of the strings.

Ask Albert King. He sounds just fantastic to me.

Obviously it will affect your playing style a lot. But I think its a bit too strong to say its a disadvantage.

[fingerpikingood]

I don't know about that, my buddy is lefty and all there is at his place is a lefty guitar, and i can manage quite well with soloing since each string on its own is the same just the order of the strings is reversed, but when it comes to chords, granted, there is a big part of it that it's backwards to what i'm used to, but for some chords the layout just makes them impossible to do. and your thumb is completely taken out of play for power chords which i know for many guitarists doesn't matter much to them, but for me personally i find it disabling.

i'm not sure any guitarists play the wrong hand strung the wrong way, i would be really surprised. i know for sure jimi hendrix strung it properly because he liked to use his thumb for power chords also.

if you ever get your hands on a lefty try every chord you know and you'll see what i mean some of them because of the shape of your hand and the fact that the screwy string, the B one is screwy at the bottom instead of the top.

I'm pretty sure that string isn't tuned a fifth from the D precisely because tuning it to B instead of C makes chords possible with your hands both for the placement of the B string notes and also for the convenience of repeating the E at the top.

were it not for that you'd be missing fingers, and imo having that feature on the wrong side of the fretboard doesn't take advantage of it.

the people who invented and refined guitars did alot of trial and error, i don't think there is a better way left to find either in shape of body or string configuration for all purpose use. you can certainly find tunings that work better for some things, and lefty strung might be one of those, but alot of thought went into stringing them the way they are.

if it was better the other way than probably lefty vs righty would be opposites.

[bluesking]

I don't know about that, my buddy is lefty and all there is at his place is a lefty guitar, and i can manage quite well with soloing since each string on its own is the same just the order of the strings is reversed, but when it comes to chords, granted, there is a big part of it that it's backwards to what i'm used to, but for some chords the layout just makes them impossible to do...



i'm not sure any guitarists play the wrong hand strung the wrong way, i would be really surprised.


As I say, read up on albert king. He was one of Hendrix's and SRV's main influences and he did just that.


if it was better the other way than probably lefty vs righty would be opposites.

Who said it was better? All I'm saying is, it doesn't have to be worse.

[JonR]

i'm not sure any guitarists play the wrong hand strung the wrong way, i would be really surprised.
Two Brits:
Gryff Rhys of Super Furry Animals: http://www.underexposed.org.uk/gruff/gruff2.jpg
Jimi Goodwin of Doves - on bass!: http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00033/DOVES1_280x450_33596a.jpg

[fingerpikingood]

the original poster had said he thought it might have been even better, whether he was talking about it strung reversed or not idk.

one of those pics is a bass, which doesn't make any difference really whether you string it lefty or not because you won't be playing chords with it.

but i am indeed surprised that that guitarist has it strung the wrong way.

but i'm willing to bet he doesn't play many chords that are common in jazz because if you've ever tried to play a lefty strung guitar you'd find some of those chords impossible. or maybe he uses some more exotic ones because some chords may be more simple to play reverse strings but some are impossible.

that guitarist must be a simple strumming kind that plays folk or maybe folkish pop or something like that using more basic chords and with little freestyling.


i don't see why anyone would play their guitar that way, i find it a terrible idea and limiting.

but as for a bass, to me, it makes no difference whatsoever, give me 20-30 minutes with a lefty bass in my hands and i'm pretty much good to go.

[bluesking]

I think maybe you had the right idea Jon.

Albert King - one of the most influencial electric blues guitarists of all time. Most electric rock/blues music owes something to him.
http://www.kalamu.com/bol/wp-content/content/images/albert%20king%2001.jpg

I know this guy isn't a "simple strumming kind that plays folk or maybe folkish pop or something like that using more basic chords and with little freestyling."

He doesn't play many chords at all, but he doesn't need to. Thats his style and it works for him. It doesn't work for me, it sounds like it doesn't work for you. It might work for someone else. Live and let live.

[JonR]

the original poster had said he thought it might have been even better, whether he was talking about it strung reversed or not idk.

one of those pics is a bass, which doesn't make any difference really whether you string it lefty or not because you won't be playing chords with it.
Good point, but Goodwin plays guitar too:http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/xVb53-wm_zN/Doves+Visit+SIRIUS+XM+Radio/1CtWi_SOtH8/Jimi+Goodwin
Of course, these are very rare examples of self-taught players who obviously just picked up an ordinary RH guitar and turned it over because it felt right. And nobody told them not to! (Or they didn't listen...)

This way of playing only seems weird to the rest of us who learned normally. There's no intrinsic reason why one way would be better than the other.
Or is there? There's good arguments for strong-hand-strumming/picking (whether that's left or right). What are the arguments for bass-string-uppermost?

[fingerpikingood]

I think maybe you had the right idea Jon.

Albert King - one of the most influencial electric blues guitarists of all time. Most electric rock/blues music owes something to him.
http://www.kalamu.com/bol/wp-content/content/images/albert%20king%2001.jpg

I know this guy isn't a "simple strumming kind that plays folk or maybe folkish pop or something like that using more basic chords and with little freestyling."

He doesn't play many chords at all, but he doesn't need to. Thats his style and it works for him. It doesn't work for me, it sounds like it doesn't work for you. It might work for someone else. Live and let live.

exactly he didn't play chords. fine he doesn't have to but my whole point is that the shortcoming of playing a lefty strum guitar is that more complex chords are impossible to play. you're proving my point i think with this one.

Good point, but Goodwin plays guitar too:http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/xVb53-wm_zN/Doves+Visit+SIRIUS+XM+Radio/1CtWi_SOtH8/Jimi+Goodwin
Of course, these are very rare examples of self-taught players who obviously just picked up an ordinary RH guitar and turned it over because it felt right. And nobody told them not to! (Or they didn't listen...)

This way of playing only seems weird to the rest of us who learned normally. There's no intrinsic reason why one way would be better than the other.
Or is there? There's good arguments for strong-hand-strumming/picking (whether that's left or right). What are the arguments for bass-string-uppermost?

in my mind there are 2. one is that using your thumb for power chords is useful and can't be done with your guitar reverse strung.

the other is that the guitar was specifically designed the way it is and strung the way it is in order to fit with the shape of human hands and allow them to play the largest variety of chords you could imagine given that you are playing a guitar.

have you ever played a lefty guitar?

there are some chords that due to the configuration of your hand are impossible. literally impossible, not just difficult.

show me a player like tommy emmanuelle playing a reverse strung guitar, or a jazz great or a player like andy mckee or something like that and i'll change my mind.

i can play a lefty guitar. you could hear me play a lefty guitar and think i was playing a righty. i'm good with it. the other way is better.

[bluesking]

Does all of this mean that the violin is basically a flawed instrument. How many chord players are there for the violin? Double stops, sure, but same can be done on an upside down guitar with no problems.

Hell, if you want easy to play chords then why not ditch the guitar altogether and play the piano. That must be the "best" configuration of an instrument using your reasoning!

Ultimately, it is not an inferior way of tuning or playing. It is just different. I can tell when I hear Albert King immediately, its almost like his licks sound wonderfully "back-to-front". There are dozens upon dozens of excellent guitarists capable of great jazz harmony in my town alone but what makes them stand out.

What about Django? I imagine you would have told him not to bother playing the guitar. Not enough fingers, right? Would you have told Wes to stop using his thumb?

In the name of fairness though, I have to disagree with the OPs assertion that playing the "wrong way round" is in any way better. Thats the point, it is not better or worse just different.

[fingerpikingood]

Does all of this mean that the violin is basically a flawed instrument. How many chord players are there for the violin? Double stops, sure, but same can be done on an upside down guitar with no problems.

Hell, if you want easy to play chords then why not ditch the guitar altogether and play the piano. That must be the "best" configuration of an instrument using your reasoning!

Ultimately, it is not an inferior way of tuning or playing. It is just different. I can tell when I hear Albert King immediately, its almost like his licks sound wonderfully "back-to-front". There are dozens upon dozens of excellent guitarists capable of great jazz harmony in my town alone but what makes them stand out.

What about Django? I imagine you would have told him not to bother playing the guitar. Not enough fingers, right? Would you have told Wes to stop using his thumb?

In the name of fairness though, I have to disagree with the OPs assertion that playing the "wrong way round" is in any way better. Thats the point, it is not better or worse just different.

yes the piano is better, and yes i play the piano. you can play more full chords and any chord you want. there is no more ergonomical instrument that takes better advantage of the human shape, save the mouth/vocal chords that until they plug micro chips into the brain, which is closer than you might think, is the best instrument known to man, with only one yet substantial limitation that it can't play chords.

but the piano sounds different and it has some limitations such as not being able to slide or bend notes unless you go digitial, and the feel is different.


no the violin is not flawed you don't play bar chords on it, it has only 4 strings. the violin, for what it is, has also been refined and optimized over the years.

they didn't use calculus to figure out the shape of it, it was trial and error to find the best sound,m and even now with our computers we can't beat it.

yes i know, for soloing i too like to play a lefty for something different and yes, it inspires differently.

sure tune your guitar differently for different songs or whatever. but the regular tuning is the most optimized.

I know what you mean not better or worse just different, like changing the tuning of your guitar, but if a youngster starting on guitar asks me what's the best, i'm going to tell him the most versatile way, that has the most possibilities, that way you won't turn out to be a genius crazy guitarist and then figure out you spent a bunch of time learning a stringing that limits you.

you give me a random tuning of a guitar and i'll play you a sweet tune, you give me a riggidy guitar i'll play you a sweet tune, you give me a wooden box i'll play you a sweet beat, you give me a old synthesizer with bad action and crappy sounds, and i'll play you a sweet tune. is one better than the other? not if someone asks you i guess.

but truly give me a nice piano with nice sound and nice action and my tune will be sweeter, give me a nice guitar strung the most optimized way and i can play you more songs with more full chords and make sweeter music.

you can think it's just different if you want. but i really doubt you've ever spent much time on a lefty guitar and i think that if you did, you'd find some limitations it has. does that mean you can't make music with it? no. you could make music with just one string. but if you have a 6 string, i would string it the proper way, because there are more possibilities.

if someone asks me advice on whether they should practice and get used to a lefty strung guitar, i'd say no, play the other way, there are more possibilities. if you can't afford the other way around guitar, then string yours the reverse way. if the only guitar you can use is not yours and you can't string it the reverse way, then learn it that way.

you can cope but it's not the most versatile.

I don't know what you're talking about django and wes, and no i don't tell people what to do, i give them advice. and no i don't tell them those things, because music is music it doesn't matter the technical point of view of what you're doing, just the sound.

you can play a lefty strung guitar, and you could maybe make some cash doing it too, but if you want to really become an instrumentalist, and really push the instrument to it's limit, the limit will be farther if you string it the right way.

a computer is capable of jazz harmony. that does not make it an artist. if this is in reference to the other tone deaf thread, i feel like you mixed both topics in your response.

at any rate, imo you'd be best served to learn the guitar the proper way, not be limited and then if you really want tinker with the other way around too if you want that different feel. try other tunings too, but the way they chose it to be, imo, is the best all in all. it doesn't mean your music will be better than someone playing the other way, but the tuning as a concept on it's own it's best the standard way. that's why it's the standard way.

[JonR]

exactly he didn't play chords. fine he doesn't have to but my whole point is that the shortcoming of playing a lefty strum guitar is that more complex chords are impossible to play.Not at all. You just have to arrange your fingers in a different way. You would need to invent different voicings, perhaps. There might be chord shapes you can play that way that us orthodox folk can't.

in my mind there are 2. one is that using your thumb for power chords is useful and can't be done with your guitar reverse strung.But you can use a finger!

the other is that the guitar was specifically designed the way it is and strung the way it is in order to fit with the shape of human hands and allow them to play the largest variety of chords you could imagine given that you are playing a guitar.That's debatable. The design of guitar is an evolved compromise. Eg, the tuning enables scales and melodies to be played across the neck in a single position.
Chords are only part of it, and which way up the strings are doesn't make chords easier or harder. (Unless of course you have been taught one way, in which case the other way is harder. Ask any of those guitarists who play upside down to play a normal guitar, and they would struggle to form chords.)


have you ever played a lefty guitar?
there are some chords that due to the configuration of your hand are impossible. literally impossible, not just difficult.Of course, because you are struggling to play shapes that are designed for the other configuration. But a chord is not just one shape. It is a group of 3 (or more) notes, and those notes are available in various configurations, whatever the string arrangement.
show me a player like tommy emmanuelle playing a reverse strung guitar, or a jazz great or a player like andy mckee or something like that and i'll change my mind.See above... ;)
They would have to relearn new shapes, so naturally they would struggle.

[bluesking]

Due to lack of punctuation and coherency I don't think I can continue this anymore.

Good points all around everyone, tata from me.

EDIT: I couldn't help it. I copped out and posted again. Shame on me.

[fingerpikingood]

Not at all. You just have to arrange your fingers in a different way. You would need to invent different voicings, perhaps. There might be chord shapes you can play that way that us orthodox folk can't.
But you can use a finger!
That's debatable. The design of guitar is an evolved compromise. Eg, the tuning enables scales and melodies to be played across the neck in a single position.
Chords are only part of it, and which way up the strings are doesn't make chords easier or harder. (Unless of course you have been taught one way, in which case the other way is harder. Ask any of those guitarists who play upside down to play a normal guitar, and they would struggle to form chords.)

Of course, because you are struggling to play shapes that are designed for the other configuration. But a chord is not just one shape. It is a group of 3 (or more) notes, and those notes are available in various configurations, whatever the string arrangement.
See above... ;)
They would have to relearn new shapes, so naturally they would struggle.


I really don't think you've spent any time playing a lefty guitar either.

it's more than just chord shapes you aren't used to.

I still find chord shapes i'm not used to on regular guitar. it's different. I don't remember which chords it is anymore but some of them are impossible. yes. i know there are different voicings. yes i know a chord is just a group of 3 or more notes.

it's not that i am taking a chord shape and trying to use it on the lefty and can't. well it's that sometimes but also just playing and adding notes or moving some to an existing shape.

I know intuitively it seems as though there should be no problem, but i've found some chords that with the guitar strung that way are not possible for hands to play.

the guitar was over trial and error specifically designed the way it is.

fine call it a compromise if you want, but the compromise is to instead of making it great at one single thing and impossible at others, it is more versatile. this is exactly my point.

why are you telling me why i was struggling when i'm the one who was playing the guitar?

go find a lefty guitar and you'll see. some chords are playable but weird and some are just not.

man... you guys are difficult over here. so argumentative.somebody asks a simple question in the forum and it explodes into world war 3.

would you really recommend to someone to learn a lefty strung guitar, based on your intuitive guesses of how it must be and on the fact that you know of a few guitarists who have?

ok maybe if you knew of just one but they were the greatest guitarist of all time you might have a point, but holy cow.

[borge]

I'm left handed and own and play both left and right handed guitars, though, I mostly focus on 'normal' strung lefties because thats what I'm used to, just as you and most guitars players are.


there are many (RH) songs that are easier 'upside down', there are many chords (and songs I and probably others have written) which can only be played upside down. Obviously, vice versa applies, the same could be said of all alternate tunings or even extended to all instruments; the beauty is in the limitations!

Also, I use my thumb to play high melodies so its not wasted ;)

No one is being argumentative, others are just trying to show you there are two sides to all coins.

[bluesking]

the beauty is in the limitations!

The most intelligent and elloquent statement of recent weeks in my opinion. (Can't believe I am getting dragged back in here, but I think you deserve the credit for this.)

If I may be so bold as to expand:
Every instrument has limitations. Exactly which limitations it displays dictate how the instrument sounds (along with other factors: timbre, volume etc.), its essential character. Playing the same phrase on many instruments is an interesting exercise. It doesn't sound good on all. Have you ever played a synth guitar set to piano? Trying to play like a guitarist sounds very bad, you need to think like a pianist (and imagine all those same limitations: this means no bending).

If the above is true, and the limitations contribute to the character of an instrument, how is anyone to say that one set of limitations is better than another? They, much like character, are matters of taste.

fingerpickingood,
It is all to easy to say "Man, everyone on this forum is argumentative." But in truth this is not so. This forum is really chilled and friendly, most people here are very decent and have worthwhile opinions.

This is not to say that everyone here agrees. People here have differing opinions, but invariably if two opinions are worth having they can coexist. Your opinion of "playing the wrong way around is worse" leaves no scope for the coexistence of any other opinion. Either you are completely right and everyone wrong, or vice versa. Any surprise that so many people take issue with this and write page upon page to attempt to convince you? Almost all of the responses you get are in good humour and use correct punctuation and are therefore easily readable. Almost all of the guys responding have a great wealth of experience in music theory, playing and teaching.

Does the magnitude of the opposition against you not make you think perhaps you might be wrong or at least not explaining yourself very well? I can only see one person that wants to argue here, and thats you. The rest simply disagree with you and are trying to explain why.

Music is not built on absolutes. For every thing you or I think is true I can find you an accomplished musician who disagrees.

[fingerpikingood]

I'm left handed and own and play both left and right handed guitars, though, I mostly focus on 'normal' strung lefties because thats what I'm used to, just as you and most guitars players are.


there are many (RH) songs that are easier 'upside down', there are many chords (and songs I and probably others have written) which can only be played upside down. Obviously, vice versa applies, the same could be said of all alternate tunings or even extended to all instruments; the beauty is in the limitations!

Also, I use my thumb to play high melodies so its not wasted ;)

No one is being argumentative, others are just trying to show you there are two sides to all coins.

i don't know how much time you've spent here but i've posted here a few times before and it often gets blown all into this huge debate, and i find it tiring.

i don't think anything you've said is incosistent with what i said, although i think it's better to play the properly strung guitar not just because that's what you're used to, but because of the things it's designed to be able to be easy to play. imo it's a more versatile set of things.

but like i said before, you can change the tuning of your guitar and instantly some things become easy to play and others not.

it is the limitation of the human body in being able to play a guitar-like instrument.

so then if you are inventing a guitar, your next step i would think would be to find how exactly you should tune it. what exactly would you make easy.

well as a given it would need to be able to play the major chords and minor chords and diminished without too much difficulty, and then the list goes on.

but you need to decide on something. and if I was doing that, i'd end up with the guitar the way it is right now the right way around, and if you'r egoing to learn guitar i suggfest you learn it this way as it will be less limiting.

i understand what you mean how the limitations are great, and i agree to a certain extent, but really i'd like to be able to play music as i imagine, and not get screwed by the fact that the reality of life is that those things i imagined are impossible for human hands to play.

but i like the limitations also. i like guitar, and i like piano too, guitar is much more limiting but by virtue of its configuration and timber it is a different beast and inspires differently.

Left handed guitars do this for me too. I like them for that. and by all means if your a guitarist, try a lefty, change your tunings, use a cap to partially cover strings, do whatever, go nuts, it will be fun and you'll be able to make good and interesting music that way.

but listen, if you are starting out guitar and you ask me which is better, than the answer is right handed for righties. that's why they are that way. it has evolved that way over a long time, and bee improved upon by smarter and greater musicians than us.

it's not random the way the guitar is, you can't expect to change it all around and it's still fine.

not to mention alot of ressources might be more confusing, some of it less i guess if you think about it though.

i'm not saying don't play lefty, i'm not saying it's completely garbage or terrible, i'm not saying any of those things you guys seem to think i'm saying.

I'm just saying, in response to the initial poster with the question. lefty strung is not better, if you are learning guitar learn it on a guitar strung the right way.

and so unless your advice to everyone would be to learn guitar strung upside down and to forget convention, then i think you must agree with me, which is why i can't help but feel like were just being argumentative here.

i mean someone is spending their time learning the instrument, someone is making the instrument what they will be used to forever, and your advice would be to do it strung upside down?

I find that hard to believe, and bad advice. but like i said i'm no slouch on a lefty myself so i know what it is.



maybe i explain badly, maybe my punctuation sucks. but what's tiring for me as making a statement and needing to debate it forever and deal with moot points and things that everybody knows around in circles only to come back to the only basic point that matters, the source of the debate, whether someone learning guitar should bother learning it right way around or strung upside down.

a simple question, maybe you couldn't care less and to you they are equivalent but different.

but to me you'd be better served to learn it the right way around.

yes some people play upside down guitars. yes it is doable. yes it can influence your music in a unique way.

but if i were you i'd learn it the right way around because it is more versatile and less limiting, and it would suck to spend 15 yrs of your life learning guitar and then realizing that there are some things you really wished you could do with it that can only be done strung the other way, but it's too late because you're already not used to it.

I don't know what kind of the person asking the question might become, maybe they will give it up in a month, maybe they will become a great master. and in order to leave the doors open, i would learn it the right way around. you can still benefit from a lefty strung's inspiration after. you can change tunings on your guitar. change the limitations. but your bread and butter imo should be the least limiting.

and no i don't see how people can disagree with that. i understand your points about equivalencies i'm decent on a lefty strung remember? i'll play guitar in different tunings.

but it's not random the way it is. it's that way because it is better. not better for every song, not better for every style, it's easy to change stuff around, you could make your guitar random tuning, and make good music with it.

but we're talking about learning the guitar from scratch here and giving advice to somebody who knows little about guitar on where they should spend their valuable practice time.

and if you would tell them there is no difference learn it upside down, then imo you'd be steering them in the wrong direction.

[bluesking]

but we're talking about learning the guitar from scratch here and giving advice to somebody who knows little about guitar on where they should spend their valuable practice time.

Why did no one tell me this is what we are talking about? Laridar, was not asking for help. (I am not really sure what his point was though....)

All of this started when I responded to your comment "if you keep it strung righty but play it lefty then in my opinion, yes you are at a disadvantage due to the layout of the strings." What has this got to do with advice for novice guitarists?

maybe i explain badly, maybe my punctuation sucks. but what's tiring for me as making a statement and needing to debate it forever and deal with moot points and things that everybody knows around in circles only to come back to the only basic point that matters, the source of the debate, whether someone learning guitar should bother learning it right way around or strung upside down.


You don't need to debate anything. It takes two to tango, and acting like the put-upon inoccent babe in the wood is not doing you or your points any favours.

Your "basic point" above is perfectly fine because its an opinion. I don't make a habit of disagreeing with opinions. In fact I agree with your opinion, I would also reccomend that starting guitarists (not learning guitarists, we are all learning, even the best of us) start with the "normal" tuning scheme.

Then you go and say something like:

but it's not random the way it is. it's that way because it is better. not better for every song, not better for every style, it's easy to change stuff around, you could make your guitar random tuning, and make good music with it.

And we are right back at the start. This is not an opinion, it is a judgemental statement about what is "better" in the absolute sense. It has nothing to do with "starting guitarists". To state that, even in general, one is a "better" system than another is not correct.

You are conversationaly flailing around, trying to make point after unrelated point and you expect pity because you are tired of it?

I expect the issue really comes down to the fact that you don't respect words and their meaning. You think you can say anything and it doesn't matter provided someone else can "guess" your point. An internet forum, with its already limited scope for expression is not a good place for that attitude.

[fingerpikingood]

Why did no one tell me this is what we are talking about? Laridar, was not asking for help. (I am not really sure what his point was though....)

All of this started when I responded to your comment "if you keep it strung righty but play it lefty then in my opinion, yes you are at a disadvantage due to the layout of the strings." What has this got to do with advice for novice guitarists?



You don't need to debate anything. It takes two to tango, and acting like the put-upon inoccent babe in the wood is not doing you or your points any favours.

Your "basic point" above is perfectly fine because its an opinion. I don't make a habit of disagreeing with opinions. In fact I agree with your opinion, I would also reccomend that starting guitarists (not learning guitarists, we are all learning, even the best of us) start with the "normal" tuning scheme.

Then you go and say something like:



And we are right back at the start. This is not an opinion, it is a judgemental statement about what is "better" in the absolute sense. It has nothing to do with "starting guitarists". To state that, even in general, one is a "better" system than another is not correct.

You are conversationaly flailing around, trying to make point after unrelated point and you expect pity because you are tired of it?

I expect the issue really comes down to the fact that you don't respect words and their meaning. You think you can say anything and it doesn't matter provided someone else can "guess" your point. An internet forum, with its already limited scope for expression is not a good place for that attitude.

oh ya lol, touche, I was under the impression for some reason that they were starting out and saw no reason to play it the conventional way.

well ya, i do think he is at a disadvantage, because it's less versatile that way.

i mean you could change your tuning of guitar, and i would say you are at a disadvantage from conventional tuning because you will be limited.

but you could play some stuff cooler. and it might give you great ideas. but in total it's at a disadvantage.

ok but i think you're getting all semantic on me there.

which is why i feel it draining to debate because if i say a simple sentence i feel it might be scrutinized and picked apart when the point is the message i evoked not the parts i used to build it.

yes i used the word better, and i mean better. yes in an absolute sense. yes stuff can be absolutely better. If it's not better then why would it be a standard? if you don't think it's better then why would you tell someone to learn it that way? why does 99.9% of the population do it that way? whay was it designed that way?

it is an instrument with a purpose a well defined one, there is better. ok if we're talking about cars then what's better? fuel economy? speed? cargo?

there is no absolute better, but when you're talking more precisely about a formula 1 car, then yes there is a better car. a better one. a best one.

yes there is a best way to tune a guitar and that's why everybody uses it. there are other ones that are good for other things, better, yes better, for other things but for your all around bread and butter the standard way is the best way.

if you prefer me to just have an opinion. ok. fine. imo it's the best way. is that better? and although tuning your guitar differently will be more limiting it will somehow not put you at a disadvantage.

i mean true not learning guitarists because we are all learning, technically that's right, but you know what i meant.

i know what words mean. maybe you don't like how i use them. ok. but if you know what i mean then you know what i mean. who cares about the rest.

if you don't know what i mean, then sorry. but that's how i express myself, what can i do. btw, my punctuation is actually usually carefully chosen but sometimes i miss stuff and rarely re-read my posts. maybe i should but i don't re-read when i speak either. maybe you're missing some information because it's written so it might be harder to understand where i'm going sometimes, particularly with my style of speaking, well sorry, what can you do, that's me.


but ya, i'm at a loss to see the original point of the thread myself. i think the poster was just trying to show off or something.

[bluesking]

Ok.

Hypothetically, the reason I would reccomend conventional tuning to a begining guitarist is to make it easy for them to learn from diagrams/tabs. Most tuition you see for guitar is based on standard tuning.

I preceive this to be an educational advantage I must concede, but I don't think there is anything about the physical details of playing "upside down" to discourage anyone (for each disadvantage, there will be an advantage and to attempt to keep score and make an overall judgement is unfair, just like comparing piano and guitar).

I say perceive because a lot of people think that playing from diagrams/tabs is actually bad for you. Maybe they would see it as an advantage that its much harder to rely on the "black dots of doom" and is more likely to force the guitarist into using standard notation.

[fingerpikingood]

you could also say that it might be easier to watch a person play guitar from a frontal point of view and to translate that to playing because when you play your guitar versus watching someone the string are upside down.

but to me the advantage or disadvantage lays in the configuration of the strings in comparison to the shape of your hands.

i've used some diagrams and stuff but my knowledge of theory as you may know is relatively limited, and i find diagrams difficult to use and to memorize and really prefer and i guess need to go by ear to "understand" any theory i have learned, for example to learn a scale i hear how it should sound and then find the patterns from that myself, following a diagram is too tough and unattached for me, so i don't find that such a disadvantage.

but having played a lefty guitar a few times i find too many things i want to use are impossible to play.

the b string move over is in the wrong spot for alot of stuff.

and in that way i find you are at a disadvantage playing a lefty strung guitar.

for learning i could see how in some ways it could be better some ways worse, probably for most worse in how most prefer to tackle learning an instrument, maybe it would be better for learning standard notation as you said, and that could be a good thing, but for me, i would still not know standard notation if i learned on that kind of guitar so not really much of a difference there.

but layout wise really i find you'd be much better served, for a more versatile setup, to used the standard setup.

it is less limiting. for some stuff it is the same but different but for some chords it's just impossible like you can't play a fret with your pinky close to your index which is barring your fretboard while your ring finger is playing 4 frets out, I find many complications like this arise when playing lefty strung, and no matter which way you try it your fingers can't play certain chords, not as a limitation of practice or flexibility but as a limitation of the construction of human hands versus the layout of the guitar, which is why the guitar is strung and tuned the way it is and why that B string is retard and not tuned a perfect fifth up like the others.

I wish i had concrete examples but i just recall trying to play some stuff on a lefty guitar and found it impossible, even though i tried different possibilities of my finger configuration as i must do with a regular guitar whenever i want to play something and find that i need to move all of my fingers to play a chord when technically all i want to do is more one fretted finger up a fret or something.

so for me actually due to my lack of theory a lefty strung is more like a regular than maybe for others that are better with theory, but still my hands are programmed to use certain shapes easily so it's still very different particularly for chords.

for soloing i just need to be a little mindful when switching strings and less on auto pilot. but what's nice is i make mistakes that turn into "good ideas".

[bluesking]

The fact that you find your usual chords difficult when upside down is no surprise and I feel the same when playing a left handed guitar.

What about all of the chord shapes which are impossible to play on a "normal" guitar? Some of them are possible when strung upside down.

As an aside, there are more ways to play guitar than just lefty/righty. Look at Jeff Healey:

http://www.rufrecords.de/upload/pictures/jeff-healey-press-photo_small.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d95YFdubGrU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaaXQ6boLjQ

But please, lets not get into whats "better": upside down or sideways :p

[fingerpikingood]

The fact that you find your usual chords difficult when upside down is no surprise and I feel the same when playing a left handed guitar.

What about all of the chord shapes which are impossible to play on a "normal" guitar? Some of them are possible when strung upside down.

As an aside, there are more ways to play guitar than just lefty/righty. Look at Jeff Healey:

http://www.rufrecords.de/upload/pictures/jeff-healey-press-photo_small.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d95YFdubGrU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaaXQ6boLjQ

But please, lets not get into whats "better": upside down or sideways :p

agreed. but from my experience, the regular tuning has more useful chords that are possible and lefty strung the opposite.

(hey that's two things we agree on, hell must be freezing over)

[bluesking]

Flawed logic once again. You disagree with me. I disagree with you. This thread is also full of bollocks like the other. I have no interest in participating in further discussion with you. This will be my last post directed at you. You are on my ignore filter, so that's that.

[JonR]

agreed. but from my experience, the regular tuning has more useful chords that are possible and lefty strung the opposite."from my experience"...
Let me guess: you learned the same way we all do? Therefore you learned the chord shapes that were designed for normal EADGBE tuning. So you are biased.

Think about this: a mandolin is tuned GDAE: same as bottom 4 guitar strings upside down. Mandolin players have no trouble playing chords (well, apart from how close the damn strings are...).
Conclusion: which way up the strings are makes no difference to ease of forming or playing chords - IF you start with no prior experience of one method.

[fingerpikingood]

"from my experience"...
Let me guess: you learned the same way we all do? Therefore you learned the chord shapes that were designed for normal EADGBE tuning. So you are biased.

Think about this: a mandolin is tuned GDAE: same as bottom 4 guitar strings upside down. Mandolin players have no trouble playing chords (well, apart from how close the damn strings are...).
Conclusion: which way up the strings are makes no difference to ease of forming or playing chords - IF you start with no prior experience of one method.

in lefty strung in order to play some of the common sounds you need to make impossible shapes.

it doesn't matter what you have learned before. I still come accross chords that are tough for me to play on regular guitar. but there is a difference between tough and impossible. that's the point. obviously pretty much every chord on lefty strung is difficult for me to play. i am not sued to them.

but difficult i can handle. difficult is one thing. but impossible is another.

it doesn't matter what you are accustomed to.

mandolins have 4 strings. so it is easier to make chords because of that in one way, and in another it can be harder to make the more full chords.

i've never really played the mandolin so i don't know the advantages or disadvantages as to why they have decided to tune it that way.

but it could be that that setup allows for a larger variety of chords to be played and i'm assuming that it is for that reason, unless it comes from an era where a certain type of scale was most common and that configuration makes those chords easy to play.

guitar is 6 strings and for that reason is harder to design to make full chords possible in accordance with the shape of average human hands.

[Timestorm]

I saw the first post in this thread shortly after it was done and it originally had a huge spam link in it which the mods obviously deleted. The OP is banned now i think you'll find. Shame another 'debate' has erupted over what started out as a lame exuse to post some spam...oh well.