PDA

View Full Version : I think I know where I want to go with guitar now, how do I get there?


WithLove
07-28-2009, 10:58 AM
This is my first post here, after reading through dozens. I love the atmosphere here.

A little about myself. I took piano lessons from 8-12 or so. My mother let me quit when I picked up percussion in middle school band. Of course I regret quitting; who doesn't. I could read music well already, so played xylophone/marimba, with some traditional drumming mixed in, in band for 4 years. I was getting fairly advanced for my age, performing four mallet pieces while still in middle school.

We moved to a new town, and being the rebellious teenager I am (was? haha), I quit band and decided to pick up guitar. I borrowed a cheap acoustic from a friend and a simple book. Think, "Guitar for Dummies" or something of the sort. This was about three years ago.

I learned the standard open chords, barre chords, and exactly one scale pattern. I took lessons for a few weeks, and my teacher said I was advancing extremely quickly. Mostly because I practiced every night until my fingers bled, often 8-10 hours (this was summertime). I'd picked up everything I felt I need after only a month or so (those chords, I guess), so stopped the lessons.

For the past two and a half years, I've simply memorized dozens of four to six chord indie-pop/rock songs and play and sing them for myself or small audiences of friends and strangers at parties and such (I don't gig, of course). I've been somewhat pleased with my playing ability, I suppose. Never particularly dissatisfied, at any rate.

Now, however, I want to really advance. I think I've never made a concerted effort to really improve because I never really knew what my goals were with the instrument, or music in general. But now I think I have it kinda figured out. I want to know the guitar well enough to be a musician, and not just someone that plays the guitar. I have a somewhat intermediate knowledge of music theory. I actually took a year of college level theory and a year of ear training, so I probably know more theory than most guitarists in my position.

The style of music that I listen to, and that I feel is "my style" is "indie rock" or whatever. Probably the most technically difficult stuff that I listen to is The Fall of Troy. My "guitar heroes" are not Satriano and Vai, but Chris Walla and Sam Beam. I love songs with good guitar melody lines (think Here Comes The Sun), and songs with sweet rhythms or progressions. I'm not really at all interested in metal. I am interested in being able to solo in the traditional rock sense, I'm interested in jazz. I'm also interested in fingerstyle guitar.

I want to know the fretboard well enough to effortless form complex chords on the fly, to solo up and down the neck, and not just in one position at a time. I want to be able to play jazz with people, and mostly just advance from the open/barre chord strummer that I am to a real musician.

However, I need some direction. Lessons are not an option. I'm a very poor college student, working full-time during breaks to pay for expenses during the academic year. But, I am willing to put in hard work. I have no delusions about really learning to play an instrument. I know it's tough. I'm fine with that.

What I'd really love is a book suggestion, or a few books, that would get me on the right track. I can read guitar somewhat decently in standard notation. I can't sight read in standard notation on the guitar, but I work stuff out. I suppose I should improve that, as well. I can realistically budget between one and two hours, weekdays, and two and four hours, weekends, to practicing. I've never had a set practice schedule, so if anyone would like to contact me personally to help, I'd really appreciate it.

Also, how important is it that I have an electric guitar? Is it ok to learn all this stuff on an acoustic? Someday I'd like to play electric, but can't afford one right now. However, I have two very nice acoustics, and could sell one and have enough for a very decent electric and a very decent amp if I absolutely needed to.

I was looking at this book (http://www.amazon.com/Advancing-Guitarist-Mick-Goodrick/dp/0881885894/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top), but I really don't know what to do or if it's what I should buy.

In the mean time, I've memorized all five of the major scale patterns, and I'm working my way through the pentatonics now.

Sorry for the extremely long post, but I just need some guidance. I felt really discouraged recently because I realized that I'm not really improving much beyond just chords and changes getting smoother and rhythm getting better. Any help is appreciated.

Malcolm
07-28-2009, 01:37 PM
...... I am interested in being able to solo in the traditional rock sense, I'm interested in jazz. I'm also interested in fingerstyle guitar. for Jazz http://aebersold.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=JAZZ&Category_Code=_CATALOG
That site is chunk full of great things.

Try here for jazz vanilla chords. The site also has a great play-a-long / backing tapes section. http://ralphpatt.com/Song.html


I want to know the fretboard well enough to effortless form complex chords on the fly, to solo up and down the neck, and not just in one position at a time. I want to be able to play jazz with people, and mostly just advance from the open/barre chord strummer that I am to a real musician.
I'm learning electric bass and the basic forms used in rhythm bass have opened up the fretboard to me. Look at it in this light. Instead of moving a pattern up the fretboard move the pattern up the fret. You know what the notes are on the 6th string. What is over G? C as in G, C, D. What is over C? F as in C, F, G. Now the same generic pattern you have at G is waiting for you on the 5th string and then the 4th string. Instead of going up the fretboard go up the fret. Never thought of that before.
Also, how important is it that I have an electric guitar? Is it ok to learn all this stuff on an acoustic? Someday I'd like to play electric, but can't afford one right now. However, I have two very nice acoustics, and could sell one and have enough for a very decent electric and a very decent amp if I absolutely needed to.
Until you go public IMO it is not necessary to have the electric. Everything you learn on the acoustic will flow into the electric. Now the basic difference in needs and wants -- if you want the electric go buy it, why do you need two acoustics?
I was looking at this book (http://www.amazon.com/Advancing-Guitarist-Mick-Goodrick/dp/0881885894/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top), but I really don't know what to do or if it's what I should buy. Have not read that one. Suggest you look through the catalog from jazzbooks.com.
In the mean time, I've memorized all five of the major scale patterns, and I'm working my way through the pentatonics now.
A very good pentatonic book is Pentatonic KHONcepts by Steve Khon. The articles on this site have some very good information on how to use pentatonics.

Need a break from the studies, just you and your guitar, I recommend jazz. Back in my college days I felt guilty reading fiction, you will not feel guilty studying jazz.

Good luck.

Crossroads
07-28-2009, 02:39 PM
Hi, welcome to the forum :) .

First re. your book choice - have you actually looked inside that book? I have a copy, but I would say it's of absolutely no interest to anyone except advanced players who are focused strongly on the academic side of music. IOW - reading your detailed post, I think that book is about as unsuitable as it gets.

One problem that people here will have when recommending books (or DVD's ... good modern alternative to a book), is that 9 out of 10 are focused on players like Satriani and Vai (and about a dozen other usual suspects), so they are likely to recommend books/dvd's that reflect that style of playing.

I could recommend numerous books and dvd's, but all with that caveat stressed above, ie - I don't play much acoustic, and my focus is on rock, blues, shred, neo-classical, and jazz-fusion ... so the books I recommend will all be coming from that angle with their playing examples.

But, with that accepted, here are some good tuition books -

Barret Tagliarino - Chord-tone Soloing (excellent inexpensive book inc. a good demo CD for all the exercises ... good mix of basic theory and playing technique etc.)

Guthrie Govan - Creative Guitar vol-1 (excellent book from a very good guitarist...lengthy but perhaps somewhat confusing description of basic theory, but very good playing examples, good modern exercises, and great clear diagrams for all the main scales and arpeggios, inc. a very good full demo CD ... companion book vol-2 continues with more advanced stuff)

Scott Henderson - Jazz Rock Fusion DVD (brilliant full-length dvd re-cut from two older video tapes ... first half an in-depth study of which scales and arps can be used over various chords, 2nd half focused on using that material to improvise in jazz-fusion style ... many wonderful playing examples and great presentation/teaching).

Troy Stetina - Speed Mechanics for Lead Guitar (legendary book and demo CD ... this is really focused on shred metal playing, but with much emphasis on exercises for building correct left/right hand techniques, almost classically rigorous in that respect, loads of great exercises and great examples, very impressive and inspiring, but expect a long learning curve ie years of practice in this book ... inc. just three complete songs, which from memory are, Paganini Caprice No.10, Flight of the Bumble Bee, and Bach Prelude in D-minor...that should give you some idea that it's a serious book despite the shred-metal genre).

If you are already familiar with using pentatonic scales, and understand keys and harmonised chords in the key etc., then my suggestion is to buy Guthrie Govan vol-1 and pair that with the Scott henderson DVD ... together those two make a killer combination, and will give serious students years of great practice and learning.

If you are not really sure about pentatonics & keys etc., then get the Tagliarino book/cd (it's great, and it's cheap).

Although gear discussion is really against the rules here, I'd at least say this - if your eventual aim is to play electric, then bite the bullet and swap one of your acoustics for a nice inexpensive used electric and a cheap used practice amp (loads of great stuff on eBay ... check guitars from Ibanez and Jackson, and small amps from fender and roland ... usual caution required when buying any used stuff).

Ian.

WithLove
07-28-2009, 08:05 PM
Thanks for the replies guys. Are there any books/methods that would help me with learning the fretboard? I feel that I need to become more comfortable with how the instrument is laid out, and don't know the best way to do this.

Crossroads
07-28-2009, 08:32 PM
Thanks for the replies guys. Are there any books/methods that would help me with learning the fretboard? I feel that I need to become more comfortable with how the instrument is laid out, and don't know the best way to do this.
Yes .... and it's the same answer - use the Guthrie Govan book (vol-1) - go to the section on arpeggios (the diagrams) ... learn to play through all those patterns navigating from note to note by means of intervals ... if you use the Scott Henderson DVD, then you will find that DVD ties in very strongly with loads of great examples which use all the arp diagrams in Govan's book ... if you do that, and also memorise a few notes by name on the fretboard, you will quickly get a very good feel for working your way around the fretboard (actually, "quickly" might be a slight exageration) :) .

Ian.

Hypnus9
08-12-2009, 05:53 PM
You know, what I would do if I were you, WithLove, is learn some classical guitar. It will provide a good technical foundation for you, and with your background in four mallet pieces, it should be quite natural for you. Didn't you say you wanted to fingerpick? Well classical guitar is that and more.

Second, I would, at least for the time being, stay away from tablature, and stick to written notation as much as poosible. You can always come back to tab.

I'm not recommending that you abandon your hopes of being a jazz musician, but what I am saying is that western classical music is a real gangbuster place to set the foundation. The reason I am saying this is that I started taking guitar lessons when I was twelve years old, (I'm 45 now) and my instructor insisted that I begin with classical music. From there you can go anywhere, which, BTW, answers your original question.