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Bongo Boy
07-06-2002, 03:36 AM
I'm looking at the first Jazz lesson from wholenote.com, taken from the book The Jazz Theory Book. Author shows an example where "Coltraine arpeggiates all the 7th chords downward in the key of F...over Gmin7".

Here are the 4-note arpeggiations given:

1. D, Bb, G, E
2. C, A, F, D
3. Bb, G, E, C
4. A, F, D, Bb
5. G, E, C, A
6. F, D, Bb, G
7 D, Bb, G, E

I'm dumbfounded and feel like a complete moron--I don't see ANY 7ths in F OF ANY KIND hiding in this group. Just looks like a real nice set of four notes from Fmaj to me. [Okay, #5 looks like an Fmaj7(9)].

Besides a brain, can anyone tell me what I'm missing here? It seems like each week I get smacked with something that invalidates everything I THOUGHT I learned the previous week.

Bongo Boy
07-06-2002, 06:48 AM
Okay, I figured it out. I don't think I could even explain why I didn't see what was going on. My head hurts.

The Bash
07-06-2002, 07:29 AM
Ok, yea beat me to it.
But Just in Case:
You need to look at it backwards: Literally (just flip D Bb G E = E G Bb D)
And no thereís actual F 7th chord here just all the others.

1. D, Bb, G, E = e minor7th b5
2. C, A, F, D = d minor7th
3. Bb, G, E, C =c7th
4. A, F, D, Bb =Bb Major 7th
5. G, E, C, A =A minor 7th
6. F, D, Bb, G =G minor 7
7 D, Bb, G, E =e minor 7th b5

G Bb D F A C E are the extensions for a minor ii chord in F

If heís doing all this over a Gm7th chord then heís just exploiting extensions.

Itís a neat little puzzle:

First Letís extended it out so itís easy to see G Bb D F A C E G Bb D F A etc.
Now follow the eminor 7th flat 5 up the above chart { }
He then goes to the next descending note in the key and playís another 7th chord based on that in this case dminor 7th.
He just keeps doing that (except from your info he skips the actual F major 7th chord) all way down from e to e.
Coltrane loved patterns heíd often do things like 1-2-3-2 patterns using the root of the chord as one as just run up the scale first second third second note and repeat same with next chord.

Bongo Boy
07-06-2002, 01:56 PM
I spent hours on this, and my explanation for that (and I'm sticking to it) is:

A lot of beginning theory materials will take, say, an F major scale, then use that to explain intervals and chords. So, I get to the lesson on 7ths, and all the 7ths described use F as the root. The 3rds, 5ths, 7ths etc are tweaked as needed to get the various kinds of 7ths.

Here, what the author said quite plainly was "7ths on F maj" (no tweaking--scale tones only). The idea of taking your scale tones and then figuring out what kind of 7ths you get didn't occur to me--until I pulled out my new "The Complete Guitarist" book (Richard Chapman).

This is a major breakthrough--thanks for the help!!

Bongo Boy
07-06-2002, 04:04 PM
I almost forgot. Everything above was just the first part of the 'puzzle' for me. The second part is the notion of, as you say, "doing all this OVER Gm7".

I don't understand any of the references folks make to "soloing over..." or "playing over..." a chord. I just don't understand what this means, either from a music theory perspective (i.e., why Gmin7 in particular), or from a musical performance perspective (i.e., in terms of one instrument vs an ensemble).

In the example we're working on here, the notation in the exercise has the 7 (or 8) chords arpeggiated in sequence across 4 bars. Above bars 1 & 3 is a Gmin7 chord diagram. Why? WHat the heck am I supposed to do with that info--I mean really, I'm busy trying to fumble thru these 7 chords at 15bpm :D

szulc
07-06-2002, 05:52 PM
I almost forgot. Everything above was just the first part of the 'puzzle' for me. The second part is the notion of, as you say, "doing all this OVER Gm7".

What this means is the backing music is playing a Gmin7 (vamp) during this whole series of notes. Coltrane was contrasting the sound of each of these other 7th Chords against the sound of Gm7.

I don't understand any of the references folks make to "soloing over..." or "playing over..." a chord. I just don't understand what this means, either from a music theory perspective (i.e., why Gmin7 in particular), or from a musical performance perspective (i.e., in terms of one instrument vs an ensemble).

This was taken from a SOLO by John Coltrane, in the context of the solo the band was playing Gm7 during this portion. What is meant by SOLO is he was improvising a melody line OVER several measures of Gm7. ( Not playing by himself)

In the example we're working on here, the notation in the exercise has the 7 (or 8) chords arpeggiated in sequence across 4 bars. Above bars 1 & 3 is a Gmin7 chord diagram. Why? What the heck am I supposed to do with that info--I mean really, I'm busy trying to fumble thru these 7 chords at 15bpm

The information is the there to give you the context of the solo, in this case Gm7 as a ii in the key of Fmaj.

Bongo Boy
07-06-2002, 06:08 PM
Thanks--not as complicated as I thought it was going to be!!

What means "vamp".

szulc
07-06-2002, 06:38 PM
This usually refers to a static chord for several measures. In some cases it means a repeating riff background.