modulation in one position

[rafapak]

hi guys

I would like to learn to modulate from one key to another in one position on the guitar fretboard. I use three notes per string patterns. What is important to learn if you want to modulate in one position on the neck?

I also would like to know if it is necessary to learn every scale in every key on the entire fretboard? What about different keys? Do they learn by heart every scale on the entire fretboard in all keys? What method should be used here?

If you improvise in C major in first position and want to move immediately to 12th position and still improvise in C, is it only possible when you know where exactly the root or different note of C is in 12th position?

Moving fast between long distances while impovising ( seven , eight frets distances ) on the fretboard always makes me wonder. They don't have time to count frets so my thinking is that they must know by heart where to press strings. Knowing fretboard for improvisation is difficult for me to understand. If you play song that you learnt by heart, the problem of orientation on the neck doesn't exist . you just know by heart where to press strings. For improvisation it seems difficult. Can you guys tell me how you handle this problem. yes there are shapes but changing them not consecutively also seems to involve knowing by heart where to press.
Please, comment if you don't mind.

[JonR]

hi guys

I would like to learn to modulate from one key to another in one position on the guitar fretboard. I use three notes per string patterns. What is important to learn if you want to modulate in one position on the neck?]Knowing the scales of the relevant keys.
I also would like to know if it is necessary to learn every scale in every key on the entire fretboard? What about different keys? Do they learn by heart every scale on the entire fretboard in all keys?Yes. But this simpler if you understand that there is only one scale for each key.
There are 12 major keys, and the scale for each one (the set of 7 different notes in various octaves) runs over the whole neck. The fretboard is broken down into patterns to enable you to play in one position at a time.
Moreover, any set of patterns for one scale can be moved up or down the neck to produce a different key scale.
Eg, any pattern for the C major scale becomes a D major pattern when moved up (towards the bridge) 2 frets.
If you know all these patterns (there are 5 useful ones, IMO, but some people use 7 - they all overlap), then you can easily find patterns for all 12 keys within one neck position (say within 4 or 5 frets max).

(And it's worth remembering that in pop/rock music, some keys are a lot more common than others. Probably at least 90% of rock songs are in one of 6 keys: C, G, D, A, E, F. And 90% of those are probably in G, D, A or E. All the easy guitar keys, IOW!)

So the minimum you need to know is (a) 5 major scale patterns, and (b) positions of notes on the neck, on 6th and 5th strings at least, so you can find roots and place the scales. (Each major scale pattern has its roots - "tonics" - in a different places.)

But it's more useful (and easier in the long run) if you learn all the notes on the entire fretboard, and how a major key scale is constructed (what notes are contained in each major key). You can then make your own patterns, by selecting the notes you need in whatever position you happen to be.

Learning the whole fretboard can take a while, but it's something you need to do sooner or later.
All you need to start are the open string notes (EADGBE, right?) and the whole-half step formula of the natural notes, ABCDEFG: whole step (2 frets) between any pair of notes, except B-C and E-F which are a half-step apart. So now you can work out any note position, by counting up. The more you do this, the more you spot patterns between strings which help you memorise positions.

If you improvise in C major in first position and want to move immediately to 12th position and still improvise in C, is it only possible when you know where exactly the root or different note of C is in 12th position?12 frets up the pattern is the same, so that's easy. (There's a C on 3rd and 15th frets on string 5. The pattern - and the notes - between frets 0-3 is identical to the pattern and notes between frets 12-15. It's just an octave higher.)

Moving fast between long distances while impovising ( seven , eight frets distances ) on the fretboard always makes me wonder. They don't have time to count frets so my thinking is that they must know by heart where to press strings.Exactly!
And the dot fret markers help you find the fret you want without counting.

Knowing fretboard for improvisation is difficult for me to understand. If you play song that you learnt by heart, the problem of orientation on the neck doesn't exist . you just know by heart where to press strings. For improvisation it seems difficult. Can you guys tell me how you handle this problem. yes there are shapes but changing them not consecutively also seems to involve knowing by heart where to press.
Please, comment if you don't mind.You need to know some theory. Major keys; major scales.
Also chord shapes, in any position. Check out the CAGED system, which gives you 5 overlapping shapes for any single major chord, all the way up the neck, as well as scale patterns to go with them.
That enables you to play a chord sequence, in any key, in any position on the neck. (As well as the 5 major shapes, there are 3 minors, which don't all overlap - so minor chords may require going out of position sometimes.)

Improvisation is easier if you work from the chord shapes, which contain all the notes you need. (Tho not all the notes you might like to use... )

[fingerpikingood]

well one thing i could say, is that when you are singing you are opening your vocal chords, or closing them, or however hitting notes is exactly produced by voice.

you can jump from one note to a higher one if you sing without much trouble at all.

yet you need to open or close or do precise physical action in order to get the exact right change in pitch.

but there are no frets, and you don't even think about it.

when you walk and you see a step by looking you can know exactly how high you need to move your foot to clear it.

the human brain is amazing this way. it does many things like what you're talking about every day. except by looking at the fretboard and approaching the guitar as a puzzle to figure out, it seems incredibly complicated, and as though you need to memorize a bunch of stuff. which i recommend that you do.

but if you look at trombone, or violin, or cello, or double bass, there are no frets or specific buttons to press.

it's just after a while you can play piano with your eyes closed, you can play guitar with your eyes closed, your body just intuitively knows what you need to do in terms of moving your body in order to produce the pitch you're trying to make.

just like your body physically moves your vocal chords to do the same thing, both in singing and also in regular speech, using tone to communicate without thinking about it, and all other functions of speaking while you only think of the message you wish to convey.

this is why people say you would use a tool as though it were an extension of your body. because from a brain perspective, that is exactly what you are doing, although in stead of adding new neural pathways you can activate for new functions, you need to program combinations of existing ones, i.e. your hands and fingers.

your body and mind can do it. your body and mind will do it if you play for long enough. memorizing the notes from a memory perspective is not necessary for that specifically. just like eyes aren't specifically necessary for playing piano.

you don't need your eyes, because your body knows. you don't need to look at your vocal chords either right?


but learn your major scale anyways, if you want to be able to switch modes while in same position, practice that too.

trial and error works as well, the more you do it, the more trial and less error you get until eventually the error portion is almost completely gone.

[Malcolm]

........Can you guys tell me how you handle this problem. yes there are shapes but changing them not consecutively also seems to involve knowing by heart where to press. Please, comment if you don't mind.
Yep you need to learn the Major scale pattern and if you want to take that up the neck you must learn the 5 patterns that make that possible. Now once you do that those 5 patterns are generic. Where you start them dictates what scale you have waiting for you. Those five patterns are also five of the seven mode patterns - sounds like a lot, but it's not really as they are generic and we use them over and over.


Here are some pattern charts:

Basic patterns for Major, minor, Major and minor pentatonic and the Blues scale.
http://www.cyberfret.com/scales/basic/print.html

Major scale in 5 positions up the neck
http://www.yellowguitarbooks.com/fretboard-diagrams/Major%20Scale.pdf
When you move the pattern you’ve moved over new notes - so --- to keep the same notes you have to change the pattern. When you change the pattern you end up with the same notes in 5 spots of the neck. Notice how they hook together. I know - why would you want to do that? Good question, beyond it looks cool to fly up and down your fretboard - well it's a passage thing plus it teaches you where the notes are on your fretboard and it also teaches your ear where the good notes are located.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_qw03-3gFg

Red dot is the root note. Place the root note on the 6th string 3rd fret and G scale notes are waiting for you. 6th string 5th fret and A scale notes are waiting for you. Why? Look at your fretboard what note is at the 6th string 3rd fret? It's a G. See how it works? The numbers are the fingers to use. 1=index, 2=middle, 3=ring, 4=little finger.

Ask specific questions someone will answer.

I've attached a scale chart with a fretboard chart in case you need it.

[rafapak]

thanks guys