fretboard question

[peter_traj]

hi everyone. i have drawn up a fretboard diagram that i use to study for diferent ideas for improvising while a am at work. ive attached it to this thread. i am only improvising in A minor for now so when i get better at that i can move to other keys.the progression i use is "house of the rising sun"(Am,C,D,F,E7) i have learnt the five pentatonic scales that spread across the whole fretboard by heart and i can run up and down them without mistake.i always use chromatic passing notes im my improvising because they add HEAPS of character to the whole thing and especially the B and F notes which are part of the A minor scale i have combined those five scales into one long scale that covers the entire vocal lenght of the guitar.this pattern can be moved and applyed to any key. the only notes that repeat in the diagram are the ones that i have circled as i find them very useful. now my question is this. i have seen many experienced guitarists using every square inch of the fret board when improvising/soloing but i cant understand why when every single note can be acsessed from a pattern like the one below.every other note is just a repeated one?
thanks and hope to hear from you soon. Peter

[Guni]

Hi peter,

Hope it's fine with you but I changed the size of your image. It was quite big with a lot of white space around it. Do you have any software where you can crop an image b4 uploading it? I am sure we could name ya some freeware programs to do that if you need one. Just give us a holler :-)

Regarding your post:
To be honest I am not 100% sure what you mean. Lemme try to reword this: You are asking why somone would use the entire fretboard just to play the same lines or melodies but in different positions. or in other words: if I do know where the good sounding notes for Am are why should I transfer those to another position or string ?

Well, it's all about timbre and the nature of the instrument. best is probably an example:

listen for the difference in sound, treble, 'feel' of the same line in different positions. Not to mention that some positions are better suited for guitar specific effects, such as open strings, hammer-on pull-off, slide, bends, etc ....

Guni

[Schnautze]

Hi again Peter,

I agree with Guni in those timbre considerations, and I'd like to add something else:

when you're for example soloing through the House of the rising sun, let's say you're are in the 5th position playing through your Am pentatonic, why moving to the 7th position to play the same notes (is that the question yeah??). Well, now you will have access to new notes like the octaves (in the 5th position you can't play the E in the 12th fret for example which will sound the same but with more energy), or just "extensions" or available notes (from other scales) of the chords you are playing like 9ths, 11ths, 13ths. I'm not an expert in harmonization theory, but something the people use to play while soloing is extensions of the chord the rhythm guitar is playing. (an extension is a note wich doesn't modify the chord itself but changes its character, for example, you can have an Am7 and an Am7 b9b13. These chords are basically the same, just their "colour" is different, but both are minor and dominant wich are the body's properties for a chord.

In this case you're in the key of Am, or the major equivalent: Cmajor.... (all the notes in Am are in Cmaj that's the reason they are equivalent ...). Ok I prefer staying in C major mode.... (the same as Am) well you can play a Major C scale (or a Cmaj pentatonic = Am pentatonic) through your song and it will always sound good, because the notes of the C major scale are:

C,D,E,F,G,A,B, and octaves. If you stay in only one position you will never reach the B octave for example.

And to finish, something has helped me a lot for improvisation:

Once you know your patterns well. Try to play them "vertically", in only one string. To do that for all the scales in all the keys in all the strings.... and even if the notes are the same, you'll have a completely different vision of the fretboard.

As in my last post, I definetely recommend you the Fretboard Logic of Bill Edwards.

Schnautze

[szulc]

i have learnt the five pentatonic scales that spread across the whole fretboard by heart and i can run up and down them without mistake.

If this is true, then why aren't you using these patterns (the whole patterns) in your improvisation?

The five patterns give you the whole fret board approach, you might need somthing like the above to link them together, or a true* 3 note per string pentatonic form, or possibly an octave form where the pattern repeats in octaves every two strings.

[peter_traj]

the example that Guni posted has convinced me of the difference in sound two same notes can have. i guess my ear isnt yet trained to quickly pick up these differences.i would like some more info about what schnautze said about about playing vertically on one string? i thought you could play only horizontally on one string.anyway does anyone have a basic pattern that they use in every key to navigate the fret board. sort of a foundation pattern that can be used to build on? this is what the book, fretboard logic advocates. the book shows two basic lead patterns based on the pentatonic notes and these patterns just repeat time and again. it writes that you should practise these lead patterns like you practise your scales. the book says that these patterns are a safe way to navigate the fretboard in any key. is it a good idea to practise these patterns? one of the two patterns in the book are simmilar to the one in my original thred but excluding the circled notes and excluding the high register G,A,C,D, notes. what do you guys think?
Thanks,Peter

[Schnautze]

Hi folks,

yeah peter I know what you're talking about. I am working through those fretboard logic's patterns too (LP1 and LP2). I think as szulc said the CAGED it's not the defintive system but it's a good way to start to improvise quickly. So anyway I think those "universal" patterns are good for a start. You can't improvise a blues with that because you will need soon or later more notes, but what those patterns allow you to do is to have access to more other important notes you will have to play in order to give some "colour" to your improvisation stuff (and this will depend on the tune itself).

What I mean whith play vertically/horizontally (depends!) along one string is instead of repeating your pattern through the 6th, 5th, 4th.....strings, you practice only in the 6th string (for instance). Once you feel confortable, do same for the string 5th then 4th... and do it for all the scales you learn. It's going to be the same notes, but the way you will "feel" the fretboard is very different and you will be able to jump more easily from one pattern to another and then "connect" them. That's the idea. I have felt really nice improvements applying these concepts through the studies of the major scales and modes, not pentatonics because there are not enough notes per string (only 2 each pattern). For C major Phyrgian for example in the 6th string it would be: E(open),F,G,A,B,C,D,E(12th fret) and then start again. If you want to do Mixolydian start at the 3rd fret. I don't mean you have to improvise in this way but it will give you a good help so "visualize" the patterns along the neck.

Well I hope I am a bit more clear....

Chat you later.