Drop 2 Voicings from Dim7 Chords

[szulc]

Dim7 chords break up the chromatic scale in to four equal parts, each spanning the interval of a minor 3rd.
ie. B D F Ab the intervals are m3m3m3 and the interval structure is the same for all of its inversions.
Since most playable Dim7 chords are already in Drop 2 form ( Open voiced with Second from top dropped one octave), and since the formula for a Dim7 is m3m3m3 and the formula for a Dom7 is M3m3m3, we can drop any tone of a familiar dim7 chord and the dropped note becomes the root of a Drop 2 Dom7th Chord.

[Zatz]

Thanks, Szulc!

What a hint! Though I've played these chord changes thousands of times I never came to generalize these passages this way.

Dim7 has proved to be fount of surprises once more :) I love this chameleon chord!

Zatz.

[szulc]

Thank Bill Fowler (Dr William from Downbeat columns) and Pat Martino for this, I am just passing it on.

[The Bash]

Thnxs for the idea (or passing on of)
I never thought about it in such a simple (now smacking right in face) manner before.
I knew sharping the 7th would get me a m7th b 5 and so on but this is even better.
When combined with warp refraction this chord is unstopable.

[szulc]

This one didn't get many hits the first time around, so once again I am trying again to see what interest this kindles.

[Bizarro]

That's a great way to move around the fretboard! If you combine it with the fact that the dim7 chords can be played every m3 up and down the neck, it really opens up your options for changing keys and getting cool substitution ideas.

The tough part is remembering all this stuff while playing! I spent several years working on jazz theory in college and absorbed volumes of information every week. Now I remember about 0.00001% of it!:(

James, thanks for the reminder!

[szulc]

If you combine it with the fact that the dim7 chords can be played every m3 up and down the neck, it really opens up your options for changing keys and getting cool substitution ideas.
My Staff and tab is demonstrating EXACTLY that!

[badgas]

I love these chords.
Like Zatz, I've never looked at them like this before.
Thanks Bill, Pat and szulc. :)

[szulc]

The next transformation is to lower the third and get m7 chords.

[szulc]

From the original DIM7 you can raise any tone and it becomes the b7 of a m7b5.

Yeah and don't forget about applying the 'warp refraction' pricipal to these.

[Bizarro]

Well, it's not EXACTLY demonstrating what I was talking about. Your text actually talks about converting a dim7 to a dom7 chord by dropping any single note in a dim7 chord. I was talking about dim7 chords only.

I'll try clarify my point:
For example, the progression F->G#->B->D (all are dim7 chords, see pic), which would skip every other chord in your example.
If you spell out these four chords... (please pardon the enharmonic butchering!)
F dim7: F, G#, B, D
G#dim7: G#, B, D, F
Bdim7: B, D, F, G#
Ddim7: D, F, G#, B

Well, you can see that all four chords have exactly the same four notes! And these forms repeat every m3 (or 3 frets on the fretboard). In fact, there's only 3 different dim7 chords in existence when you get right down to it (try it, start on F, F#, G)!!

So basically you can move this chord shape up and down the neck at will. You can think of it as different inversions of the Fdim7, or you can conceptualize that it's root is any of the 4 chord tones. If you think of it as 4 different chords, then that's your stepping stone to changing keys.

That's the point I was trying to get across.

[szulc]

My entire post is based on the assumed ubiquitous knowedege of this fundamental premise.Dim7 chords break up the chromatic scale in to four equal parts, each spanning the interval of a minor 3rd. Why else would I have chosen the particular chord forms I chose for the starting points?

[Bizarro]

Interesting response. Maybe you should get a spell checker when you use the big words.

I'm just trying to contribute to the knowledge base. I'm not a mind reader.

[szulc]

You mean knowledge ?

One entry found for ubiquitous.


Main Entry: ubiq·ui·tous
Pronunciation: yü-'bi-kw&-t&s
Function: adjective
Date: 1837
: existing or being everywhere at the same time : constantly encountered : WIDESPREAD

[szulc]

Your explanation will help those that don't already make this connection.
I assumed that from my text and tab this was made pretty clear.
My assumption was apparently incorrect.

My problem with spelling is usually a mechanical one. My typing is not so good, especially with the lights off, and when it is late. In addition I have very large hands and fingers. I make attempts at using concise english here and even resort to a spell checker, now and then.

Your contributions are appreciated.

[Bizarro]

Yep, I was trying to make my explanation and information easy to digest for the less experienced people reading this thread.

Of course, by typing out my info it also strengthens the connections inside my head, so it helps me too.:)

[badgas]

I saw the simularity in both explainations.
They were just put differently.
Both were informative, one complimenting the other.

With more points of view it makes it easier to understand sometimes. Sometimes is just one or two words that makes me say, "Oh! I see."

Thanks to you both.

[szulc]

Glad we could help

[Schooligo]

Hi,

I'm wondering WHY the image posted by Sculz is specifically notated in the manner it is?
(Please examine the image on page 1 of this thread for reference.)

Why is the Drop 2 open voicing of a Dim7 chord
that then is modified(by lowering a single note in the Dim7 chord) and consequently becomes a Dom7 chord
demonstrated with opposing &/or different enharmonic accidentals in each two chord example.


As to my question & an example in the Sculz image:

an F dim7 chord is demonstrated with the notes
F B D Ab
(keeping in mind that every note of a diminished chord is the root of that Dim7 chord)

(or we could call it a B dim7 for greater ease of my understanding)
after lowering &/or modifying the root note B to Bb

our chord becomes a Bb7
F Bb D Ab
(if I were analying this chord I would say it is a Bb7 in second inversion)

or F B D Ab (F dim7)

becomes F Bb D Ab (a Bb7 chord)

That is how I apply Music theory.

But in this example Bb7 (Bb7=Bbdom7)
(which is built by stacking thirds & therefore contains the notes Bb D F Ab when respecting Music theory)

is notated with a G# instead of an Ab?

F Bb D G#

I am wondering WHY?

Normally I would just theorize that they are simply Enharmonic equivalents, & no further explanation is needed,

Then I began to wonder if there is an important concept I'm not understanding, that I could be if I thoroughly understood it.

What I mean is that I am a student of the Instrument as well as Music in it's many capacity's & I have not in the past applied Music & it's Theory's in some of the same ways as Sculz & other members of this Forum.

For instance I have not applied Mathmatics as efficiently and to a much larger degree in regards to Music Theory as many others Members of our IBreathe Site have.

BUT the more I study, & thanks to IBreathe,
the more I see the usefulness of this!(as well as many other ways of understanding a concept).

Like many other strategy's I plan on applying these learning strategy's more from now on!

Is there a rationale?

[szulc]

This is actually a limitation of Powertab software.
PowerTab is the best thing going for Staff and tab but it does not give you good control over the accidentals it uses. I apologize for the confusion. The main point was the concept of using Dim7 Chord shapes as a mnemonic device, to build other Drop 2 voicings. Not a missing concept just poor accidental implementation on the part of Powertab. I virtually every other respect PowerTab ROCKS!

[Schooligo]

Thanks for the clarification,

Sculz, also I really like the content, concept, strategy's & advice in this thread! (as with many IBreathe threads)

Yeah Powertab is a really great program & rocks!, (I'm grateful IBreathe turned me on to it)

I have been using Powertab frequently, but obviously not enough :D

as I was not aware of this limitation!!

nevertheless regarding Powertab the positives seem to outweigh the negatives!