beat it solo

[vanhalen]

Hello all!

I have played guitar for a few months now and the reason I started was inspiration from the beat it solo. I would like to know:

- How much time (or how many years) will it take to get in that level to be able to play the solo if i practise on average 1-2 hours a day? (I know it depends on many factors but can you give an approximate answer like, ~ 2 years, ~ 5 years, or probably NEVER)

- Can you recommend any good exercises for playing fast?

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards,

Alex

[Anubis]

Hi Van Halen and welcome.
Eller tjena fan som vi säger i Sverige.
Eftersom detta är ett internationellt forum så tvingas jag svara på min knaggliga Engelska.

That was some Swedish people :)

Van Halen was and still is a big inspiration for me and that Beat It solo is awesome.
One of my absolute favorite solos.
I have an old interview with Eddie where he tells the story about how he ended up playing on Michael Jacksons record. I haven't read it for a while but if my mind not fails me that solos is a first take.
He just played over the track a few times and then they recorded it.
He also recorded at least one more version of it. Would be cool if they released it.
They first wanted him to solo over that static E bass but Eddie wanted to solo over the verse progression.
I have a professional recorded backing track for that solo with a very accurate tab included.
Drop me a private message if you need it.

There's also a very good analysis of the solo at this site by Eric V

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/play/article/16


- How much time (or how many years) will it take to get in that level to be able to play the solo if i practise on average 1-2 hours a day? (I know it depends on many factors but can you give an approximate answer like, ~ 2 years, ~ 5 years, or probably NEVER)

That is a question I see from time to time and it is so hard to answer if not impossible.
It depends on so many things. We are all different and unique individuals.
I have seen some talented guys that could play like Gods after 3 years of playing and I have seen some others that have played for 20 years and still is not even close to be able to play that Beat It solo. I have played for 23 years and still suck if you ask me.
I also believe that this has to do with what our goals as guitar players are.
If your goal is to learn that solos note for note and to make it sound like Eddie you will get there one day.
That is something I am sure of.

I don't think you should worry to much about how long it will take for you to master that solo.
I have been playing for a long time now but I still can't make that solo to sound like Eddie.
Technically I can play it but I just can't get Eddies feel and sound.
If you practice a lot it will take you maybe 2-3 years to get the technique but as I said.
We are all different. It will take a lot longer for some people. I would say in most cases a lot longer then 2-3 years.
When I had been playing for 10 years I taught a guy to play and it took 2 years before he could play like me and after another 2 years he was so good that he had reached a level I will never reach.
Many of use start to play guitar because we want to learn the solos of our favorite guitar players. Once we have played for a while we realize that there is so much more to guitar then just being able to copy our guitar heroes note for note even though that is fun to.
So my advice is that you should have fun with the guitar and start out by learning more simple songs.
Ain't Talkin Bout Love and Running With The Devil are two good examples.
Try to learn complete songs and play them all the way through.
You also need to learn some basics like the pentatonic and blues scale etc..
Practice bending and vibrato a lot.
You will probably realize that if you try to learn the Beat It solo now you will never be able to play it and will end up being very frustrated. At least I was :(
Before you can master it you need to develop some of the techniques to master it.
You will need a stronger left hand for example.
The solo also have this big stretch between 12-15-19th fret that is hard when you're a beginner.
Much of Eddies style is hammer-ons and pull-offs so you really need a strong left hand.

Problem with trying to learn solos that are way beyond our playing skills is that we might end up with being able to play a few licks of many solos but not one complete solo.
We need to learn complete solos and songs so we really can feel that we are moving forward as guitar players. It can become frustrating trying to tackle hard solos.
It is better to learn something you can master and be able to play it.
Then you can at least have the feeling that you can play something.


Regarding exercises.
There's many things you will need to become a good guitar player and exercises is one of those things.
This site has many good articles to get you started.
Some of the articles Eric V have written is a good start.
You will also need a metronome. I am pretty sure you haven't used one before since most beginners haven't.
I played for many years before I even heard the name.
Here's a free metronome.
http://www.rickygarcia.de/beta/lessons_popup.php?lessons_id=53

And here's some good articles.
Not every article has exercises but you should read them becuase there's lots of useful information in them.


http://www.ibreathemusic.com/play/article/43

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/play/article/45

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/play/article/49

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/play/article/131

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/play/article/122

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/play/article/113

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/play/article/86

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/play/article/90

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/play/article/55/2

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/play/article/72

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/play/article/10



Remember to take your time with everything.
There is so much information out there that it is easy to skip things but you will only fool yourself if you do. Take the time you need with everything and make sure you really learn.

[Spin 2513]

For me it was Purple Haze,Crazy Train,Rainbow in the Dark and ,I'll see the Light Tonite. I always hated Van Halen when i first started playing . So many people were copying him , i learned his first album note for note ,just to say i could do it . i was always amazed, he recorded that when he was 20. Malmsteen was only 22 on Rising Force .

[DDTonFire]

Originally posted by Anubis
I have an old interview with Eddie where he tells the story about how he ended up playing on Michael Jacksons record. I haven't read it for a while but if my mind not fails me that solos is a first take. He just played over the track a few times and then they recorded it. He also recorded at least one more version of it. Would be cool if they released it. They first wanted him to solo over that static E bass but Eddie wanted to solo over the verse progression.

Yeah Quincy Jones talks about this on Track #14 of the Thriller special edition CD. You know that EVH did all that for free?!?!
QJ said that he recorded several solos and some were too fast others to slow (i forget exactly what he said) and they finaly found a good one :)

[Schooligo]

That's great advice Anubis!!
(though I'm not sure what you said in Swedish, he he) :)

Also I enjoyed your advice regarding the member profile, Thanks for contributing to IBreatheMusic.com!!!

[thefallenangel]

I remember the song that made me want to pick up guitar. I had never ever been interested in playing it before. I am a massive Queen fan and I had heard the song millions of times before but for some odd reason that particular time it made me want to stand up n play air geetar!

I Want It All - Queen

Mainly the intro solo *widdles*

[DDTonFire]

All of Jimmy Page's work made me want to pick up the guitar.

Now Petrucci makes me wanna shredd ;) !

[Shaman_Santana]

I dont really know exactly what it was that made me want to play guitar; i only started a year or so ago though. I remember always really liking the solo's in songs. I Remember when i was about 10, i was round at a family members house, they had an acoustic, and i just sat upstairs just strumming it and making all kinds of horrible noises with it! I just sat there and did that for ages, and enjoyed it. If only i'd have started to learn properly back then, instead of just forgetting the guitar again untill a year or so ago.

The first thing i learnt on the guitar was the main melody for 'Maria Maria' by Santana. Carlos was definatly a big inspiration for me. Also, one of the things that made me really want to play was when i saw/heard Satch play 'Always With Me, Always With You' on the live in SF DVD.

I've also 'decided' im going to learn the Beat It Solo several times - I LOVE that solo! Only i play the first few bars, and then get kinda scared, lol :D

[vanhalen]

Hi/Tja Anubis!

I really want to thank you a lot for your post and for sharing your experience which is invaluable for a beginner like me.

Playing the beat it solo is like a dream for me, I am now more confident I will suceed one day.

Those articles you've put links to seem great! I've already started learning! I'm quite addicted to guitar right now so i will practise as much as possible. I have also read the article written by Eric V. I downloaded the mp3 and it sounds exactly like Eddie playing, or is it?

Thanks again.

Regards

[Guitarperson88]

Hey,

well, it depends all on how much you practice and how much effort you put in. If you put alot of effort in, maybe in 3 years you'll be a shredder.



Steve

[Milo]

Hi, i'm a left handed 17 year old guy who started playing guitar 1 year and 11 months ago. and solos are a passion for me; in my first 10 months, i practice thousands of time on the Stairway to Heaven Solo, and the Jump solo (Van Halen) and after 1 year of guitar, i decided to learn the Beat it solo thanks to Eric's article (thanks, by the way). It took me 3 months to learn to play ALMOST at the same speed (but with bad noises for the fast licks), and like 6-8 months to play it even a little bit faster than the real tempo for the whole part of the solo. In fact, it took me like 3 months to play that lick at the 12-15-19 frets that made my fingers 1-2 and 4 suffer! But it's really really worth it, coz when you practice THIS lick for months, you're getting the "Incredible Lightness" (cf, eric's article) After a certain period of time, you dont even realise you're playing it, coz your fingers are completely light!!
maybe i'll post my beat it solo, this week end, when i'll have time.
but check Eric's version of the solo, it's amazing because only a few guitar players can play it in a way that really matchs with Van Halen's version

[Milo]

Another thing, if you practice 1-2 hours a day, it will get difficult to learn this solo; if you practice more than that, u can do it; it depends if you're the kind of guy that gives up coz it's getting too difficult, then it will be difficult to improve your technique. I think that it really depends on your motivation

[DDTonFire]

Anyone know where this article is?

[Bizarro]

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/play/article/16

You can also use the search engine on the main page OR go to the article browser. The article browser is a recent upgrade and it's really handy! ;)

[Dr. J]

These days I play accoustic jazz but way way back in time I heard a live version of a song called Free Bird by Lynrd Skynrd (I hope the spelling is close) That song still blows me away and yet it's at the opposite end of the spectrum to accoustic jazz.
Our music tastes may change but a great solo is always a great solo

[vanhalen]

Hi Milo.
Im also 17 years old. I wish I had begun playing the guitar earlier. I had the chance when I started in a school with music profile, I could choose to play guitar, but I chose piano and that was the biggest mistake in my life :(. I have played 4 years piano (but now quit :) ) and around 4 months guitar, but I am at least two-three times better on guitar. So I realise that motivation is very important and I think I am very motivated. And I do not give up when its getting difficult.

I'm really impressed that you can play the beat it solo. I would really like to hear it (to get even more motivated :) ).

When it comes to practise, what do you think is the ideal practise time( also, how much do you practise ?) ? I don't think i want to become a guitarist, I have other plans in my career, but i want to become really really good :)

Regards

[Anubis]

Hey Van Halen.
17 years old is not late. You have your whole life in front of you to play.
I often hear people seem to believe that you must start when you're young. That's bull**** to me.
I started when I was 11 but it wouldn't have made any difference if I had started when I was 18 or even 20.
It all depends on how much you practice, how dedicated you are and in what way you learn.
I spent pretty much the whole 80's trying to learn guitar without anything there to help me.
I had no instructional material or anything like that.
Anyone could learn what I learned in 8-9 years in one year with a good teacher or some good instructional material.
Another thing I would like to point out is that we all hit a wall after a few years of playing where we don't progress much further.
I know people who have played for 35 years but there is no difference in their playing now from when they had been playing for only 20 years.
If you start out and play guitar when you're 17 and practice as often as you can you will be a pretty good guitar player after a few years.
If my mind not fails me Nuno Bettencourt of Extreme was 17 when he started and he sure can play.
I noticed that you asked about practice time.
I can honestly say that you shouldn't even think about things like that.
It is very hard to follow routines and how many hours you practice isn't always important.
What's more important is what you do when you practice.
If you practice right you can achieve in 30 minutes what it takes others 3 hours to do.
Read Eric V, Jamey Andreas articles and some of the other great articles at this site and you will have all the answers you will ever need regarding practice time.
If someone tells you that he practice 8 hours a day it won't help you much.
You are not him. We are all unique and different individuals.
Often when people say they practice 8 hours a day what exactly is it that they do during these 8 hours?
9 times out of 10 I am sure those 8 hours could be cut down into 2-3 hours if we leave out things that isn't really practice.

[Milo]

Hi,
I recorded my version of the solo...but its not perfect, the harmonics are not like in eddie's version or Eric's; but its ok.. and there are some wrong notes.. but its ok; anyway eddie pay no attention to scale so it works too..!

[Shaman_Santana]

Wow man. Thats impressive, Nice 1! You got great attitude accross while playing that - just like eddie certainly does. Well Done!

[Anubis]

Good one Milo. Perfect I would say.
Let me know if you need a good backing track for the solo.
I have one.

[Milo]

Hi,
Yeah it'll be cool if you upload this backing track, if you have time
thanks

[vanhalen]

Anubis,

Thanks again. I think i'm practising enough anyway. I said i was practising 1-2 hours a day but I honestly think it was an understatement. Anyway like you said, it depends of what you do when you practise. I will by some books and print out Eric V articles.

I have one more question about practise:
When I started playing guitar a few months ago, I played ONLY easy songs and no exercises at all. This week I have played around 60% (of the time) exercises and 40% songs. Is it a good balance?


Milo,

for some reason I can't download it. It says page could not be found. Would you mind emailing it to me?

My email is alex_dalaklis@hotmail.com

Thanks in advance.

[Shaman_Santana]

From vanhalen
When I started playing guitar a few months ago, I played ONLY easy songs and no exercises at all. This week I have played around 60% (of the time) exercises and 40% songs. Is it a good balance?

That sounds good, as long as you are enjoying it and you feel you are getting the most out of it thats what matters. There's no definate way to practice, what works well for some wont work quite as well as it will for others, so its best to go with what you feel is most effective for you if you get what i mean. One thing i'd say you DO NEED though, is a metronome. Always practice with a metronome. I diddn't for my first years or so, and only when i started using one did i realise how poor my timing is!

[vanhalen]

I actually enjoy playing both exercises and songs. Thanks for the advice, I will buy a metronome tomorrow or the day after.

By the way, have you guys heard the beat it solo live? I have a video where Eddie plays it live on a Michael Jackson tour(this one is VERY COOL), mp3 where he plays it live and another mp3 where he plays ANOTHER solo (this one has bad quality though).

Another thing, Slash played a solo of his own live with Michael Jackson, It was good but I think Eddie's is much better.

[Milo]

vanhalen, could you upload th mp3 where eddie plays the solo live (the best live), please?? or can u send it to my email?
thanks a lot

[Noodles]

I`ve been playing for about 4 years now and can do most Van Halen stuff, I love his songs, and I like the challenge of his solos. I really wanna play Beat It, but i dont know it!!! please if you have the tab gimmeee a copy. Thanks a lot :cool:

[Bizarro]

The transcription is in the Beat It article by Eric Vandenberg. Search on the main page for "Beat It"

[Noodles]

Thanks for the directions. I found that tab like, 3 seconds after I posted .....and i felt dumb :confused: . But thanks for your help I appreciate it. :cool:

[antonpolak]

Hi, I'm started playing the guitar in Septembre this year, and my teacher says he want me to teach the Beat It solo..
So I first practised the version that's on this site.. but I don't understand some parts of the solo..
http://www.ibreathemusic.com/articles/files/16/bisolo3.jpg
I don't understand the second bar..
http://www.ibreathemusic.com/articles/files/16/bisolo4.jpg
Anyway, could anyone give me the TAB in .txt format? I don't need the slide, hammer-on, etc. because my teacher has explained all that things already.

[Shaman_Santana]

Theres other people here who will be able to better exaplin your question, in terms of how to perform what is in that tab, but basically what is happening in the second bar is whammy bar dives - where the whammy bar is depressed to a certain pitch. I'd listen to the solo, and then practice with the whammy bar doing the dives and listening to make sure they sound correct.

[vanhalen]

Hi antonpolak,

you have played a few months and are going to learn beat it solo? Doesn't it seem a little bit difficult?

[antonpolak]

Hi vanhalen,

well my teacher gave it to me as 'homework'

[frosties123]

Milo,
Your "beat it solo" sound file kicks ***!! great attitude, it sounds like the real version!! good job

I'm new here, this is my first post. this site looks really interesting
Frost

[Spin 2513]

I always thought is was interesting, Eddies favorite guitarist is Eric Clapton.
Eddie's style changed after Dave left. It seemed, he got more bluesy , like on "Black and Blue". There was alot less tapping as an effect , and more jamming, pentatonic blues rock stuff .

It's funny to me ,anyone dug up the "Beat it " solo.Wasn't that played by some curly haired Disco Guy with a Pointy Guitar,
in the Video?

I always really liked the "Cradle Will Rock" solo , and "Really Got Me" . Those turbo charged , Chuck Berry Riffs , really make it .

[Bizarro]

The video doesn't have anyone playing the guitar solo. It happens during the fight/dance scene.

Eddie is basically a blues guitarist on steroids. Listen to the Ice Cream Man solo on the first album...

I don't think he uses tapping as an effect. It's just a way to play the notes. He taps all over the place on 5150, OU812, and For Unlawful... I haven't listened to Balance or III.

[Guitarperson88]

LMAO, bizzaro, I like your depiction of eddie man, that's good. Eddie's got the neo classical bit a little as well. SO think of him as a neo-blues metal man on steriods.

[Bizarro]

Yep, Eddie and Alex were supposed to be classical pianists so he definitely has those classical influences! They are both still very accomplished piano players.

If you really want a laugh, watch the Beat It video! I saw it again a couple of months ago... I was practically crying... Great stuff! :)

[vanhalen]

Originally posted by Bizarro

If you really want a laugh, watch the Beat It video! I saw it again a couple of months ago... I was practically crying... Great stuff! :)
Eddie should have been on the video though.

[EricV]

It was supposed to be a secret first. if I remember correctly, he wasn´t even credited in the liner notes at first. He didn´t take money for it either. Back then, the guys in VH had that policy of not doing any sideman-work or sessions.
But I guess everyone immediately was able to tell it was Eddie
Eric

[Spin 2513]

i like the Patterns Van Halen used ,he made up his own scales, like on "I'm the One " on the first album.

right behind the minor pentatonic box .

[eastwood]

Spin,

So your saying that F# is the key for that scale ?

Daz

[eastwood]

Spin,

Or A minor Pent ?

Daz

[eastwood]

Ignore me....I haven't woken up yet !

Its just A minor Pent starting on G with an added F# and C# ?

Daz

[Anubis]

As most people know Eddie knows nothing about theory.
I have heard that he describes his playing as "falling down the stairs and hope that you land on your feet" not many people can fall down the stairs and lands so perfect as Eddie.
At least not on guitar ;)

[EricV]

I still have problems to believe that thing about Eddie not knowing theory. Well, it really doesn´t matter, because maybe he has just great ears.
The thing is though, he was quite a talented piano-player when he was a kid, and won a few contests... I wonder whether he learned no theory at all in his piano lessons. Tough to believe that he won those contest playing the pieces from memory / by ear.
Also, I heard he had a great music teacher in High School ( the same one who taught Frank Zappa, as far as I know ), so...
Anyway, I guess it doesnt matter
Eric

[Milo]

but in an old interview, eddie said that he learned playing guitar all alone and that he never had a guitar teacher....

[EricV]

Which I think is true, at least that´s what I remember from reading interviews... but as I said, he was a pretty good piano-player when he was a kid ( I am not sure whether that was before he came to the States with his family ), and I remember reading some interview in 99 or so, when he talked about his high school music teacher who taught him a lot.
So even though he might not have had guitar lessons, I wonder whether he actually does know music theory.
But then again, it doesn´t matter, cuz the fact is: he is an awesome player, and whether he knows exactly what is going on theory-wise when he is playing isn´t really that important
Eric

[Anubis]

To clear things up a bit here's a few things I know.

In Guitar Technique Magazine October 1997 Shaun Baxter did a solo analysis of Van Halens Push Come To Shove solo and analyzed it in detail. He writes:
"Having said all this, Van Halen actually uses the 'wrong' scale in bar 13 (oops!). He continues to use A aeolian (whose B note is definitely at odds with the Bb) however, he does use the more 'appropriate' sounding A phrygian for the ascending figure played along the length of the G string in bars 14-15.
Many of you may be saying yourselves, 'yeah, but does Van Halen really know what he's doing?'.
A couple of years ago I had the pleasure of sitting down and playing with the hero of my formative guitar years and the answer is definitely NO! "
However, Edward Van Halen is an extraordinary talented individual who, because of the success of his band, isn't out in the cold trying to survive like us mere mortals, by playing with strangers in a harshly competitive music world. Often, you will not find yourself with the luxury of having time to work out the perfect solo before playing over a progression. Your long term aim should be to do whatever it is that you do in any musical situation and, for that, you need to be prepared. In other words, keep studying all you can


But on the other hand. In Guitar Player Nov 78 you can read this.

Eddie was born in Holland on January 26, 1957. His father, a professional saxophonist and clarinetist who played live radio shows, got Eddie and Alex interested in playing music at an early age. "We both started playing piano at age six or seven," Eddie recalls, "and we played for a long time. That's where I learned most of my theory. We had an old Russian teacher who was a very fine concert pianist; in fact, our parents wanted us to be concert pianists


And also:
In 1967 the Van Halens moved to the U.S., and Eddie got his first taste of rock and roll. "I wasn't into rock in Holland at all," he says, "because there really wasn't much of a scene going on there. When we came to the U.S. I heard Jimi Hendrix and Cream, and I said, 'Forget the piano, I don't want to sit down-I want to stand up and be crazy.' I got a paper route and bought myself a drum set. My brother started taking flamenco guitar lessons, and while I was out doing my paper route so I could keep up on the drum payments, Alex would play my drums. Eventually he got better than me-he could play 'Wipe Out' and I couldn't. So I said, 'You keep the drums and I'll play guitar.' From then on we have always played together.
Eddie bought himself a Teisco Del Ray electric guitar-"a $70 model with four pickups"-and began to copy licks off of records. "My main influence was Eric Clapton," Eddie says. "I realize I don't sound like him, but I know every solo he's ever played, note-for-note, still to this day. My favorites were the Cream live versions of 'Spoonful' [Wheels of Fire, RSO] and 'I'm So Glad' [Goodbye, RSO]. I liked Jimi Hendrix, too. But now no one in Van Halen really has one main thing that he likes. Dave, our singer, doesn't even have a stereo; he listens to the radio, which gives him a good variety. That's why we have things on the Van Halen album that are a change from the slam-bang loud stuff-like John Brim's 'Ice Cream Man.' We are into melodies and melodic songs. You can sing along with most of our tunes, even though many of them do have the peculiar guitar and the end-of-the-world drums


And in another interview Eddie says this:
I started playing piano when I was five, but then when I was nine I got my hands on a guitar and I never played piano again after that. I'm sorry about that, to tell the truth


My guess is that Eddie really doesn't know much about music theory even though he once learned some basics on piano.
He was very young when he did that and as we all know what we once learn is something we forget if we don't repeat it and use it.
Also. Piano and guitar are two very different instruments. What you learn on piano might not be very useful when playing in a rock band.
I also believe that a guy like Eddie who have been playing for such a long time and has so much talent can improvise over pretty much anything without knowing theory. He knows his guitar so well and can hear so much in his head. Over the years since Van Halen first album was released he have probably picked things up here and there and knows more today then he did in 1978.


I think the meeting Shaun Baxter had with Eddie that he mentions in Guitar Techniques is an interview Baxter did for a U.K magazine named The Guitar Magazine. I happen to have that interview. It's quite a long and interesting one but one thing Eddie says is this.
I took piano lessons from the age of six to 12 and I fooled my teacher.
He would play something and it was my ears...I would just remember. Granted it was simple stuff, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to fool him but I never learned to read.
I've always kinda been in my own little world so I can do whatever I want! I wish I could do what you're talking about (says to Shaun Baxter) and I guess I do feel limited as a musician. That's why it's hard for me to be able to get up on stage and play with say Branford Maralis the sax guy. he calls me all the time, he wants to jam and I feel like an idiot! I'm scared to death because I cannot keep up with people like that


Another funny thing Eddie says in that interview is when other guitar heroes and the 80's "guitar olympics" gets mentioned.

You know it's really funny and I don't know whether you believe me but I never listened to them. I've never heard a record by them you know. NOTHING ! Even Steve Vai or....uh.... Satriani.
The only thing I heard about Satriani is the damned Sony commercial. And it's not because I'm a prick about it. It's just that for some reason I've always kinda lived in my own little thing and played with my brother

And for anyone who thinks they must learn sweep picking.
Shaun Baxter writes this in the same article.

I wondered what Edward thought of recent developments in guitar technique, observing that he doesn't seem to sweep-pick much.
His response: "What does that sound like?! A Quick demo from yours truly and he observes "That sounds more like and Yngwie thing right?" But as of Frank Gambale Mr sweep-pick himself Edward just confesses "Who?"
When I show him how some players apply the technique to scales he just laughs "So that's how they do it so ****ing fast" Really, I didn't know! I've heard stuff where people play stuff goin' (gestures with his hands on the guitar and sing "RAAGROO!" RAAGROO) and I'm going, what the ****? I ain't playing like that. I'm just to old to old to start taking lessons and figure that **** out, heh heh!"


Someone might have noticed this.

I started playing piano when I was five, but then when I was nine I got my hands on a guitar and I never played piano again after that
I took piano lessons from the age of six to 12

Is Eddie a liar?
I don't think he lies intentionally.
My guess is that it's not always easy to remember if you were 9,10,11 or 12 when you did this or that.
Add to that some serious drinking problems that Eddie have battled through the years.

[Bizarro]

Wow, lots of research! Impressive.

I too have read many Eddie interviews. He was a very sharp cookie, but he doesn't seem so sharp in the more recent interviews. Booze? I don't know.

He did the whole humbucker in a strat thing first. Not many people pay much attention to that. It used to be Les Paul = humbucker and Strat = single coil. He wanted a different sound so he put a humbucker in the strat. Now everybody and their brother has a humbucker in the bridge position of a strat-style guitar!

He also made Floyd Rose bridges take off. EVH used strat trems, but then Floyd showed him his bridge, and voila! the most popular guitar player in the world (at the time) uses a Floyd. Needless to say that bridge really took off after that.

He also was very innovative with the Steinberger guitars (5150 album) and did some cool stuff. He supposedly invented the D-Tuna but I can't verify that. He applied for a patent for a device which holds the guitar up so you can play it like a piano (overhand), which he used to do in concert in the 70's & early 80's.

He comes from a family of professional musicians. I think he learned lots of theory and how to APPLY it at a young age, but he could care less about the names and terminology since it is all internalized. He has perfect relative pitch (from what I've seen) and he can play anything he hears or imagines. He is not trained in, or seemingly even interested in, playing over complex jazz chord progressions.

Another thing to consider. Listen to his chord progressions and resolutions, plus lead playing, and you'll realize he internally has a great sense of theory even though he might not know the names of stuff.

Bottom line, he's a great musician regardless of whether he knows the names for everything.

Ramble over! :)

[szulc]

I remember going to an outdoor concert in a high school stadium un Bay City Michigan in August of 1978. There were supposed to be two concerts on two consecutive nights, but the second one was cancelled. There were 28,000 people in this Stadium (that is a lot for a High School stadium!).
I had never heard Van Halen, I went to Cheap Trick and Bob Seger.

After the first few backup bands (one of which called 'Buster' from Detroit kicked ***), I heard this amazing Guitar tone with someone doing things I had never heard before, crazy left hand vibratto, insane wang bar dives, tapping, tapping harmonics and all with great tone and 'feel'.

I was so freaked out I jumped up on someones cooler (since I was on the ground, with festival seating) and snatched their binoculars, I saw this guy with a cool striped black and white strat with a humbucker in the bridge and a chain for a strap! Cool!

He broke a string in the first minute or so and swithed to a LP Clone (striped as well) and ripped just as good on it. He was on fire!

David Lee Roth looked like a bumble bee in his huge yellow and black striped pants he was doing acrobatics.

The show was great Van Halen was king of the hill for the next few years.

I left the show during Bob Seger (that pissed off my girlfriend) and went to the mall on the way home to buy the first Van Halen Record. I was the first kid on my block to learn the entire first album!

Eddie Has Great 'feel' and vibratto, he is also a great rhythm player.

[Bizarro]

James, did you get "I'm the One" down? That rhythm has always been a real bear for me! I always play it too *square*

The lead parts aren't too bad to get *close*, but the insanely great vibrato has been beyond my reach so far. I worked on that tune for a couple of years in the 80's but I never got it to a cover band level. I just listened to it again and it is an amazing song musically AND technically.

I was still listening to Santana, Pink Floyd, Kiss and AC/DC in '78... I didn't get into VH until 83-84. :eek: You'll have to give me some slack though, I was born in the 70's :D

[EricV]

Originally posted by Bizarro
Wow, lots of research! Impressive.

I too have read many Eddie interviews. He was a very sharp cookie, but he doesn't seem so sharp in the more recent interviews. Booze? I don't know.


I guess the health-problems plus the divorce from his wife might have done some damage... I mean, I guess that tsuff like that can change a person ( or mess up a person ) quite a bit...

Originally posted by Bizarro
Another thing to consider. Listen to his chord progressions and resolutions, plus lead playing, and you'll realize he internally has a great sense of theory even though he might not know the names of stuff.
EXACTLY my point. I don´t know if this whole thing really does matter. But I always thought the same thing... just because you don´t know what it´s called, does that mean you don´t know it ? I don´t think so.
Some of those triad inversions Ed used when he tapped etc... I mean just because he doesn´t know that those are inversions or anything, he can still use them.


James, I wich I could have seen them in those years... I bet it was awesome.
Anyone seen the new Van Halen DVD, the early years ? I watched it, it rocks... you can almost feel the excitement that was going on back then when you hear the people who were there talk about it

Eric

[szulc]

I saw Gary Moore and Brian May in '76, Todd Rundgren in '77, Eddie in '78('84 '86 '93), Pat Travers in '79, Alex Lifeson several times ('77-'86), Pat Methany in '80 and '83, Yngwie in '85 and '87, Satriani in '88, Vandenberg and Vai in '90, Vivian Campbell in '87,
George Lynch and Brett Garsed in '94, Trower in '89 and '94 Buck Dharma and Randy Bachman in '94, Peter Frampton in '94. Srv in '86.

The most impressive were Methany, Satch, Yngwie, Eddie, Frampton, Buck Dharma and the guy who Played for Donny Iris('86).
Jeff Watson and Brad Gillis were also impressive('85, '87).

Frampton had a Santana-like groove and cool melodic ideas, Yngwie was insane, Eddie was like a car that dropped the butterfly into the carberator
Buck was insane like Yngwie, Satriani had total command over his guitar.

[Anubis]

Here's another funny story that not everyone might have heard.


Guitar World February 1990 Interview.


GW: Beat It Created such a buzz. How did your involvment with that song came about?

Van Halen: Qunicy Jones called me up to ask if I wanted to play on Michael Jacksons record.

GW: Of course at the time Michael Jackson wasn't the pop icon that he is today.

Van Halen: I didn't think he was. But when that record came out, it sure was a big one. It was really funny. I was out back, and something was wrong with the phone. And you know there's always people calling me. So I said "Hello?" And there was this guy answering , "Hello?" We couldn't hear each other so I hung up. And then the call came again [mimics a gruff voice] "Is this Eddie? It's Quincy Man!" And I'm like "Who the hell? What do you want you *******?" [laughs] So finally he says "It's Quincy Jones Jones man.." And I'm thinking, "ohhh, **** I'm sorry man"
It was really funny. After the record he wrote me a letter thanking me, signed "The *******"! [laughs]


GW: Did you work the solo out before you cut it?

Van Halen: No, I just noodled along. I actually changed part of the song though because they wanted me to solo over the break. So I said "Can we edit it to a verse so theres some chord changes?" Then I Just soloed over what I thought should be the solo section. I did two solos and they picked the one they liked. That was it. It took about 20 minutes to do. And there was Michael standing in the back saying [mimics Michael Jackson] "I really like that high fast stuff you do!" [laughs]



20 minutes?
I have played 23 years and is still trying to make a solo sound good :(

I also read this which makes me sad.
Here I am learning scales like hell and the bastard does a great solo in now time and don't even practice scales :mad:


Guitar World July 1988 there's an interview with Eddie.

GW: Do you practice a lot?
Van Halen:it depends on what you call practicing. I never sat down and learned scales, or said, Oh wow, now I'm going to play a minor scale." What I do is, I just noodle; that's all I do -noodle.

[Spin 2513]

Originally posted by eastwood
Ignore me....I haven't woken up yet !

Its just A minor Pent starting on G with an added F# and C# ?

Daz

Yes ,It's actually has a major sound to it. cause there are notes from major and minor pent , it's thought of as a relative major pentatonic ,to A minor pentatonic .

The song it works really well in, is "Jamie's Cryin' " in E minor , that song has a Dorian sound to it , that scale is good to improvise at the end of the song with, in the fade out .

"Little Dreamer" and "Fire" are also really good tunes off the first album. In "fire" it's actually a scale that works over a Dominant 7th chord , which is used to move up the frets on the A,D,and G strings , in the middle solo .

[Spin 2513]

BTW as far as Eddie not knowing theory , no way , he knows it .
His Dad played Jazz Claranet professionally , you don't think he picked up anything ? He is quoted as saying ,"you must know the rules before you can break them" , meaning he knows the rules.
When David Lee Roth was interviewed in Rolling Stone , years ago he said , Eddie was a Street Player , unlike Steve Vai , Eddie knew hundreds of coversongs , from kicking around the club scene , and if Dave said , try to play this like Sinatra ,and that like Earth Wind and Fire , and the other part like Todd Rudgrend , Eddie knew exactly what Dave, was talking about , where as Steve Vai would just shrug his shoulders , and play what ever Riffs he was working on .

In an interview i read years ago, Eddie said he wrote songs on keyboard , and played them in his "Theory class" in Junior College ,(where he met Dave and Mike) when his teacher didn't like his arangement , he argued with the teacher that it sounded good to use two bridge sections , even though his theory class didn't teach that. Eddie played his song for the class , they applauded because they liked it , and Eddie later dropped the class . That may not have been the last course he took either .
I'm sure he knew more, than i know now , at 17 or 18.

[Anubis]

Spin 2513 wrote:BTW as far as Eddie not knowing theory , no way , he knows itI don't mean to start some sort of debate here but you're wrong which should be obvious if you read interviews with Eddie and by reading what I have already posted in this thread. Eddie is one of my absolute favorite guitar players and I have read pretty much every interview there is with the man. What I have posted in this thread so far is actually things I remember reading and I could find those articles in no time.




Spin 2513 wrote:Eddie knew hundreds of coversongs , from kicking around the club scene , and if Dave said , try to play this like Sinatra ,and that like Earth Wind and Fire , and the other part like Todd Rundgren , Eddie knew exactly what Dave, was talking about It's true that Eddie knew a lot of cover songs but it's also true that he many times had no idea how to play them like the original. I also think it's there you find the secret to why he is more famous then most guitar players. He always did everything his way. He couldn't copy anybody else.

Here's what Eddie says in Guitar Player Magazine March 1995.

This goes way back to the club days when we used to play Top 40. What's funny is that I used to get so depressed because I could never play a song the way it was on record. No matter how hard I tried it would never sound like other people's stuff. It wasn't until years later that it was actually a blessing in disguise, because I can only do me. I can't copy and make it sound like someone else. It used to really kill me. We used to get kicked out of clubs. [Ed imitates club owner.] "Your guitarist plays too psychedelic!" I'm goin', "I'm trying to play the damn 'Get Down Tonight!'"[Laughs.]

Eddie reminds me of a friend of mine. We have played in a band together. He is the kind of guy that is hopeless to have in a band and do cover songs. He just can't learn other peoples songs because his mind isn't programmed for it. He never sat down to listen to others peoples songs and learned them.
What he is doing is jamming along but if I try to show him how this or that part is played on a certain record he gets bored after 30 seconds.
I think it's the same with Van Halen. If you ask him to do a cover song he will probably listen to the original once or twice and then try to play what he heard without caring to much how the original was played. I know that Van Halen cover songs like You're No Good and Pretty Woman is a bit like that. Eddie never really cared about checking them against the original. He just played them his way. He could if he wanted to sit down and figure out the original version note by note but that's not how he is as a person. The only thing I know Eddie learned note for note was Claptons solos from the Cream era. I even have an mp3 of Eddie playing Claptons Crossroad solo note for note.

I should mention that this friend of mine is a much better guitar player then I am. He developed his own style a long time ago while I'm still is here today copying my favorite guitar players.
The thing with guys like Eddie and my friend is that they don't care about rules. People who are schooled might care more about what is "right" in a strictly musical theory way or how they was taught.



In the same Guitar Player interview Eddie also says:
Actually, a lot of it has to do with not being able to count. I drive Al crazy because a lot of times I'll do six of something instead of four. I'm not talking about odd-meter stuff, but actual phrases. There's a solo in "Hot For Teacher" that's not a regular length. When I was done with the solo we ended, you know what I mean? It ended up being like 13 bars instead of 12. To me it feels right



Another funny thing people might not be aware of is this that Eddie also says in the same interview:Believe it or not, Alex's drums are the only thing I have in my monitors. If you ever stand where I'm standing onstage, all I hear is drums. Seriously. All I hear is drums in my monitors because I need the rhythm to work off


Spin if you read some of the stuff I posted in this thread it should be obvious that Eddie wouldn't make it through a theory examination. But as also mentioned it doesn't matter.
You can create the greatest music in the world without even knowing what a D-chord is. I mean you can still play it but you just doesn't know the name. You know a lot more theory then Eddie does. He wouldn't understand what a Dorian Mode or a Lydian Mode is. If you ask him to play a Dm7 arpeggio he would not know how to do it.


Finally I would like to say that I think there is a lesson to be learned from Eddie.
You don't need to know all fancy techniques and theory to become a great guitar player.
I know that many guitar players especially younger ones are worried that they don't know enough or practice enough of this or that. As Eddie already has proved you can become one of the greatest (maybe the greatest) guitar player in rock history by just doing what feels right for you.
If it sounds good it is good .even if you don't know what you're doing.

Right Eddie? ;)


http://w1.605.telia.com/~u60511686/Eddie.jpg

[Shaman_Santana]

Anubis man you rule! You must have a library of guitar mags n interviews?

I've really enjoyed reading your posts man, lots of really interesting info.

As far as playing stuff without knowing theory, i guess i'd have to admit that i get too worried about one day having to sit down and properly learn the modes and all that stuff. Right now i just love to play, just with what i know. I'll be completely honest and say i dont even know the notes on the fretboard yet! I just play. I mean i could work em out, but it'd be slow - i certainly dont know em off the top of my head.

About Eddie, he's amazing, and it does sound like he's just doing his own thing. When i hear the riff to 'Jamie's Cryin', to me it sounds odd - like theres something not quite right, probly some1 who knows their theory could say why i dunno. Yet i still like it man. Eruption and the Beat It solo are virtually untouchable.

Anyways, blah blah blah....Eddie is the man!! (Anubis too :D)

[Anubis]

Thanks Shaman_Santana. This is what happens when you are a TOTAL guitar freak :D
It's true that I have a library of guitar mags and interviews and since Eddie Van Halen is one of my favorite guitar players I have read the same interviews with him over and over.
That's why I remember some of this stuff.
What you don't know is that I actually spent more then one hour today trying to find just a quote posted in my previous post.
I just couldn't remember from what interview it was.

I think digging out some of this stuff was worth the time because it's some funny and interesting things about Eddie.
And there's tons more fun stuff to read to.
In one magazine Eddie interviews Steve Lukather and in another Eddie is interviewed by Dweezil Zappa.



As far as playing stuff without knowing theory, i guess i'd have to admit that i get too worried about one day having to sit down and properly learn the modes and all that stuffAll i can say is don't worry if you never learn as much as you have the goal to learn.
Even after 23 years of playing I am SOOO lazy.
There's so much more I should learn to get to the next level in my playing but laziness stops me.




I'll be completely honest and say i don't even know the notes on the fretboard yet
I don't know them either. I know maybe 55-60% if I have to answer in half a second. But I can't name the notes on the B or D-string without thinking first.

[Spin 2513]

Ha, ha , ha .

Yeah . Right . Whatever ..

I don't know any scales either , scales are for fish , and i'm not going swimming anytime soon , it's cold out , you know , Anabus .
I went down to the town hall today and tryed to change my name to "Lemmy , from Motorhead " but unfortunately the name was taken already .Oh well i'll have to take another angle. How 'bout some kind of stripes , or something...

[szulc]

If it sounds good it is good .even if you don't know what you're doing.

AMEN

Theory is how you try to communicate musical ideas to others and to analyze music that has already been created. It is the inspiration that matters.

I believe that good music is music with a balance of spontaneity and structure. When improvising let it all go and play.

I used use the term "controlled slop" to describe how I played live.

It was good when I was keeping the ideas fresh and had that danger of messing up because I was in new territory.
Your adreniline kicks in and it is hard to have a good vibratto and it is hard not to try to play everything too fast.

That is why a lot of players drink or do drugs, it relaxes tham and makes it easier to start right off like they have already gotten comfortable and lost the jitters. It also help them achive the mindless state.
I found out eventually that I didn't need to get loaded to connect with my muse, and my picking and playing in general improved.

So the balance between playing what it 'safe' and trying new things and pusing yourself to take chances is the key to playing memorable lines.

This is why Eddie sounds so good, because he is constantly taking chances and if he slips and falls he gets back up and starts running again.

[Bizarro]

If you ask him to play a Dm7 arpeggio he would not know how to do it.

That's just ridiculous. Of course he knows what that is.

[Anubis]

Bizarro wrote:That's just ridiculous. Of course he knows what that isI doubt it. All I can say is that after reading so many interviews with him I don't think he knows things like that. Over the years he might have learned a few things since he hangs out with Steve Lukather and other guys who knows theory but when Van Halen released their first album I can assure you he knew nothing about theory. At least not enough to say he understood things like this or that arpeggio.
For someone that knows theory things like this might sound surprising but even after 23 years of playing it was only last year I learned how to play a minor 7 arpeggio myself.
Eddie probably knows what arpeggios is but if you ask him "Hey Eddie can you play a G7 arpeggio and then a Dm7 arpeggio" I am 99% sure he wouldn't know how to do it.

All I can say is that read what I have written in my previous posts in this thread.
Read what Shaun Baxter said when he interviewed Eddie and sat down with him. Both had a guitar in hand.
From the mouth of Shaun Baxter:Many of you may be saying yourselves, 'yeah, but does Van Halen really know what he's doing?'. A couple of years ago I had the pleasure of sitting down and playing with the hero of my formative guitar years and the answer is definitely NO! " Feel free to e-mail Shaun and ask him to clear things up if you don't believe me.

http://www.shaunbaxter.com/



It seems as many people believe that just because they are famous they knows stuff like theory.
I have met quite a few Swedish famous guitar players and at least half of them had absolutely no idea of what they were doing theory wise.

Eddie didn't even know what sweep-picking was.
It isn't theory but it proves that Eddie really doesn't care about what others do or if he understand this or that. And why Should he?
In the interview Shaun Baxter did with Eddie, Shaun writes:
I wondered what Edward thought of recent developments in guitar technique, observing that he doesn't seem to sweep-pick much.
His response: "What does that sound like?! A Quick demo from yours truly and he observes "That sounds more like and Yngwie thing right?" But as of Frank Gambale Mr sweep-pick himself Edward just confesses "Who?"
When I show him how some players apply the technique to scales he just laughs "So that's how they do it so ****ing fast" Really, I didn't know! I've heard stuff where people play stuff goin' (gestures with his hands on the guitar and sing "RAAGROO!" RAAGROO) and I'm going, what the ****? I ain't playing like that. I'm just to old to old to start taking lessons and figure that **** out, heh heh!"

[Spin 2513]

Yes , you know, Anubus , when i gave Eddie lessons he was one of my best students, almost as good as Jeff Beck , and Close to Blackmore . In our fist lesson i remember him saying , " i using 6th, 9th ,7th, Arpeggios, coupled with blues rock scales " and i was like "who cares, Your people can't even play a blues" and that's when he came up with the "Ice Cream Man" lick , and he said ,"this is my F- You Spin Scale" And i was like "Hmmm, pritty good , now let me show you the changes to Autumn Leaves , that'll be $15" and Eddie was like "thanks , i have to go Paint a house with my brother now ", and i said " I hear paint is non-toxic , and you can drink it " and Eddie said " yeah , it's harmless, by the way F-You" and i said " see you next time , don't miss any spots" and he said " Don't get any blisters on your pinkys"

When he came back next week he had a demo of "Autumn Leaves " that sounded muck like "Eruption " so i showed him how to make a 7#11 chord , and he was like "this chord sucks , what am i going to do with that?" and he made all the # 11 into 11s and was like" see that i can use "
so as you can tell, he took bits and pieces of everything , and many of his lessons were with out a guitar, just a note book.

After a while Eddie said , i really like the chords the Who used on "Live at Leeds" and "Motzart, is cool , but Bartok , is really the S-." And i said , "You'll never get anywhere with that Sex Pistols stuff , why don't you play weddings ?" and he was like " oh , i'm on a lable " and i said "That's nice , but , can you play the intro to "Donna Lee" by charlie Parker?" and he was like , " Yeah , i have an MXR peddle that does that ." and i said" good , here are the changes to "Satin Doll" by Duke Elligton , now go home . $15 please " and he was like "I don't have the money , but i'll paint your garage " and i said "Okay, how bout saturday" and he said , "no i'm busy" so i said "Forget it , i'll paint it myself , you little Bast-" and he said "Okay...BYE"

[Anubis]

I didn't understand a single word of your post. Are you drunk?

[Spin 2513]

Your drunk ? That explains alot.

[Anubis]

I don't drink, I do not smoke and I don't do any kinds of drugs.
Maybe it's the language I don't understand but I couldn't understand your previous post.
You gave Eddie lessons and bla bla bla.. hello?

[Spin 2513]

Mabey you can disect my post ,so i know what your talking about ..

[Anubis]

Maybe you can write so people understand what you are talking about?

[Spin 2513]

Hey, why are we talking about Van Halen ?Your from Sweeden , shouldn't you be listening to Malmsteen type stuff?

[EricV]

Can you guys stop `? Getting a bit off-topic, and sounding as if we´re drifting towards a flaming or something. So STOP
Eric

[Spin 2513]

Aww , he's a good sport , i'll mail him a beer.Non-alcoholic , of course.

[antonpolak]

I wonder who did the solo in 'Give In To Me' of Michael Jackson?
It's a very nice solo. I'm learning it now

[frosties123]

sorry to be off topic but i dont understand why Anubis is "Posting Rights Suspended", just because he answered that spin's post was impossible to understand? by the way i still cant understand what is the hidden meaning of spin's post.

[EricV]

Anubis was not suspended because of that post. Nuff said.
Eric

[Spin 2513]

Originally posted by frosties123
sorry to be off topic but i dont understand why Anubis is "Posting Rights Suspended", just because he answered that spin's post was impossible to understand? by the way i still cant understand what is the hidden meaning of spin's post.

Hello Frost , the hidden meaning , is don't believe everything you read .

[Dj Empty]

Well i have a question about the tapping part of the first alittle part can anyone listen to my mp3 and tell me the right way to tap. Is there like a certain spot to tap it at to get the most badass sound. Thanks

[Milo]

hi,
as for the Dive Bomb question that u asked me in the private message, i dont know how to do it, because my guitar doesnt have a Floyd rose, its a yamaha Pacifica 112L.. but there was thread a few days ago about the dive bomb in this forum, so u should check it out, use the search tool eventually..
i listened to your mp3, the laast note has the right pitch, but did u tap it on the 14th fret with your left hand at the 7th? or you just picked the same note somewhere else in the high frets of the guitar? you should tap it
bye,
milo

[Dj Empty]

What i did was after bending the 2nd i slided down to the 7th then hit the 14th with my right index finger to try to make the tapping sound then i slided to the 9th then I hit the same 14. I am just trying to find out now how do i execute a perfect tap do i need to jam my finger on a note as hard as i can, and does anyone know of any good taping licks thanks.

[Milo]

no no, in this case (the tapped harmonic at the beginning of the solo), you dont need strength to do it, you need to be soft.. if you tap too hard, it wont work

[Dj Empty]

Alright i got it down but now how about the quick notes with the taping. It seems like i can't get enough noise without picking. Any Tips well appreciated.

[phantom]

It seems like i can't get enough noise without picking

do you mean volume by "noise"?

Any Tips well appreciated.

practice! :D

do it slow and perfect! take care that all notes are equal in volume and no note sticks out.
use the metronome luke!

[Dj Empty]

Yeah sorry by noise i meant not enough volume. I guess i just need more practice with taping i dont know.