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Ripped Idenity
12-29-2003, 07:03 AM
well, ive ben playin guitar for 2 months now. My friends tell me im pretty good, i dont belive them. I can play some simple songs like roulette by system of a down, a couple parts of purple haze, back in black, get free by the vines,the opening part to master of puppers, damit by blink 182 smoke on the water, iron man, when i come around, silver and cold by afi. but wat im stuck on is, wat do i do now? am i intermedite? wat songs should i learn? and i dont no if i should learn the scales and chords(i no the basic 7) or if i should keep learning songs, im getting a teacher in about a month, but for that time i want to be getting better so wat do i do????:( :confused:

Guitarperson88
12-29-2003, 07:37 AM
The best way to get better is to challenge your self. Try some harder songs, sit down, break them in to pieces and learn each piece then put them together.

As for scales, if you've been playing for 2 months and know 7 scales, that's good for now. Try learning some of the major scales later on.

Guitarperson88
12-29-2003, 07:38 AM
Accually one song I reccomend learning is:

Running with the devil by Van Halen.

That's a good one, the solo isnt to hard and is fun to play.

Bongo Boy
12-29-2003, 10:36 PM
Can you explain what you mean when you say you've 'learned' these songs? I know I'm progressing slowly, but after 2 YEARS I have not learned one song, nor have I learn one scale. I think I have C ma in three positions 'learned', and A mi pentatonic learned on one position, but I don't feel I've learned a scale.

Do you have the gear (or a friend who has the gear) to record what you've learned so you can post it? This is NOT for me (or anyone else) to judge how "good" you are. I only want to understand whay you (or anyone else) means when they say they've learned a song. Nothing more.

It would be very helpful.

As for your question about what to do prior to starting lessons, I wouldn't make any attempt to 'get better' really, since your instructor will likely have you do everything differently that you do it now anyway, and you'll just have to 'unlearn' stuff--IMO.

DanF
12-30-2003, 12:00 AM
I'm with Bongo Boy, for example: you say you can play the opening to Master of Puppets, why not learn to play the rest of it? A couple parts of Purple Haze? That would force you to improve rather than playing what comes easily and then moving on when things get too difficult.

-Dan

Ripped Idenity
12-30-2003, 07:39 PM
ok so you guys all do have good points, unfortunitly i dont have the stuff to record myself so u guys probobly arent goin to belive me, i have tried to learn the rest of master of puppets but i kinda think its outta my leauge and i dont want to like i dunno, devolope bad habbits or sumtin, and have almost got everything down on purple haze, i just dont play the rest at the tempo at which jimi plays it. also another reason that i havent ben able to learn the whole versions of those songs is bad tabs, im reading the tab and listen to the song and they cant b corect, so those are my excuses, u can belive me and help me like the first two posts or you can chose not to belive me like the other post......as for getting a teacher i no that he will change all the stuff i no, but i still want to learn songs and stuff ne ways.

Anubis
12-30-2003, 08:10 PM
If you are so good after 2 months my suggestion is that you quit playing guitar and instead become a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist.
I Seriously believe you are an extreme talent and playing guitar is a waste of talent for people like you.
Guitar playing is for losers and other misfits who can't fit in.
Yes I am one of those to :)

Shred Fan
12-30-2003, 11:20 PM
Hahah, nice one Anubis :)

Anyways, I think he means the basic 7 chords, not scales...if he meant scales I would be surprised.

Buy yes, you can play those riffs, but you should try to record yourself and see exactly how good you can play them. I have recordings from when I started playing and now I see how off those riffs actually were when I played them (good for a laugh), yet I thought I had them down perfectly.

Anyways, keep at it and start working on scales and improving picking technique, start working on strict alternate picking soon as well as techniques such as bending and vibrato. A lot of the articles on the site will help you out, have fun.

forgottenking2
12-31-2003, 01:50 PM
MAYBE he means he knows ONE pattern of the major scale and plays it in all 7 C Major diatonic roots? Just my guess... Seriously, um... if you can't record that's ok, I think Bongo wanted to have an accurate perception of what your playing is like so he could better help you out (you know, pointing out mistakes and what not). I agree with Bongo and Danf try and improve what you already have instead of moving on to new things, when I was younger *cough cough* I used to pick one thing learn it half way and then move on to another, it takes a lot more discipline (and it's not as fun) to carry on and play thta same something until you got it perfect... let me give you an extreme example: I first heard the Tocatta and fugue in Dm about 6 years ago (yup, I had just started to play guitar) and I fell in love with that tune, and I thought "it sucks that you can't play something like that on guitar" a couple of years later I heard an arrangement for strings for the same piece, even though it wasn't exact (you can't play and hold a ten note chord with a string quartet) it still kept the same feeling... then I thought about arranging it for guitar, and well, at the time I started the project and it seemed so taunting that I just dropped it, later on I picked it up and I'm proud to say that I have the tocatta down (and I can play it too :D ) and I'm currently working on the fugue (among some other projects... I'm multitask ok? :p) but anyways!! (man! I ramble a lot!!) Work on something and be through with it, it may mean pick up easier stuff, but I think it's better to know "Twist and Shack" (the beatles)or "La Bamba" (los lobos) and be able to play it to the T and even be able to tastefully jam to it a little, than going for "For the Love of God" (Steve Vai) or "Satch Boogie" (Joe Satriani) learn it half way and sound like crap on a gig... Just my little two cents there.

I hope I've been helpful

Thank you and have a nice day :D

Bongo Boy
01-01-2004, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by Ripped Idenity
unfortunitly i dont have the stuff to record myself so u guys probobly arent goin to belive meI want to strongly emphasize that my comments have NOTHING to do with 'believing' you. I am not trying to assess your skills--I'm not qualified to do that and even if I were, you didn't ask for an assessment and I would be an arrogant jerk to give you one.


think Bongo wanted to have an accurate perception of what your playing is like so he could better help you ...well, the first half of this comment is correct: an accurate perception of what YOU mean. The 2nd half is not quite right...I was more interested in assessing ME than in helping Ripped out. Again, I'm not qualified to do that.

I'll repeat myself one more time. I'm only trying to understand what Ripped means by hearing how he's rendered a song. I'm still asking the same questions I was asking two years ago, and that is: what does it mean to "play a song" on a guitar? See my post from two years ago in the thread entitled "Concept" Playing a Song". It isn't that I don't partially know the answer...I think it's a question I'll be working on for probably the next decade, or maybe forever. It's the essence of using the instrument (for me at this time, at least).

So...I am absolutely not 'challenging' Ripped in any way...certainly not his honesty. First of all, to say "I can play this" is, to me, a matter of perception, NOT one of Truth. So, if my comments sounded like I was saying "Prove it!", my sincerest apology--such a statement would make no sense in the context of instrumentalism. Okay?

Always remember, Bongo is a fairly nice guy. :)

DanF
01-01-2004, 11:23 PM
I know I shouldn't write anything because I've had a long day at work and I'm irritated by stupid paramedic students but I'm going to anyway.

I'm not trying to discourage you or attack you but if you can't play a whole song, or you can't play a song at tempo then you don't know that song. That's like me telling you I know how to build cars; everything except for the engine. What I said WAS intended to help you. If you choose to take it personally rather than just think "Maybe this whackjob has a point" that's your prerogative.

-Dan

Bongo Boy
01-03-2004, 03:32 AM
Originally posted by Anubis
If you are so good after 2 months my suggestion is that you quit playing guitar and instead become a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist.Totally un-called for. The poor guy never said he was good, and in fact explicitly stated he didn't think he was, and explicitly asked what he could do to improve. Let's at least read a post once if we're going to respond to it.

J4mmy
01-03-2004, 03:58 PM
I am in quite a Similar popistion,
Bear with me now
I have been playing about 6 months now and i can play about 5-6 songs fully and about another 3-4 i can play all the parts but havnt bother peicing them together and know most chords and a couple of scales(pentatonics)
Anyway, I have been searching for a cool song, one thats as fun as master of puppets was, the one song i have REALY enjoyed on the guitar, upbeat throughtout and not a walk in the park like some other song i liked(killing in the name of, bombtrack) plus it doesnt just sound great, it plays great.
I went thought children of the damned by maiden, thats was fun but master of puppets was 10 times better, i cant thing why because i like thats songs equaliy
can anyone suggest an songs? that are about the same skill as mop and just as fast and fun as it, i have looked at are fuel, but that was rather repetative and creeping death, thats was fun aswel but i dunno lacked something.
now i have been looking throught some vai and satriani songs, becuase i think what i liked about mop was the fact that the guitar was the main instrument and had to cool parts in it and was upbeat throughout so i figure GUITAR songs would work but they all seem either to be a bit outta my leage or use alot of whammying wahing or 7 strings or 2 guitar or anything thats ctops me learning them
other songs i have looked at were

AC/DC back in black
RCHP - Cant stop
Maiden - The trooper, i think this one also has that special thing puppets did
The Darkness - Thing called love(god knows why, it was a bet, dont ask)
metallica - one }
} Also very fun
metallica - fade to black }
this song my brother wrote
fear of the dark - middle sucks tho

Thanks. if you can suggst anything i would be grateful.

P.S if that post made no sence at all, feel free to remove it and ill try again some other time, sorry for the inconvinience if it is all a load of turky tossings - i understand what i mean even if you dont, i hope that helps you feel better

P.P.S on second thouhgts dont delete it. it took me ages to write!

J4mmy
01-04-2004, 10:57 AM
well i sure seem to have ruined this thread..

Anubis
01-04-2004, 12:09 PM
ajdowton wrote:
Hey man, I know what you mean about bad tabs! Every tab on the web, in a mag or in a book says that the opening chords in Master of Puppets are "bum....bum bum bummmmmm" on the a string, and then you move down to the e-string for the chuggy descending run. Thats crap! I've seen james play it on live footages, and clearly he starts on fret XII e string. I've got a backstage pass for their sydney show, so I'm gonna check it out at a close range, because it's really annoying to me!!!


Sure there are crappy tabs but I don't think that was a very good example.
Even the best tabber in the world with a really good ear can fail to hear the difference if an E-chord is played in the 7th position on the A-string or the 12th position on the E-string.
There is a slight difference in sound if you sit at home and listen to yourself playing it but when you hear someone playing it on an album it is mixed in a studio. Effects are added etc..
Saying a tab is crap because an E-chord is played on the 7th fret of the A instead of the 12th fret of the low E is wrong.
A crappy tab is when the note choice is really wrong.
Another example in Master of Puppets is what comes after the opening chords.
When I was younger a good guitar player in my hometown taught me that part.
He played the notes B, Bb and A on the A-string but I know today that Hetfield plays them on the low E.
No audience in the world would hear much difference if Hetfield would play those notes on the A-string instead of the E-string.

Another example is Black Sabbaths Paranoid. I played that song in cover bands in the 80's but I played the opening riffs and all the chords on the A-string instead of the E.
I know today that Iommi plays the opening riff on the low E in the 12th position but even other guitar players who have played with Ozzy, Jake E Lee for example played the intro riff on the A-string in the 7th position and all the chords on the A-string.

I think people must remember that it is impossible to get a tab 100% accurate if you don't have the guy who recorded the original part to show it for you.

I also hate it when people complain about tabs because they happened to see how the guitar player plays it live. It's easy to complain about other tabs when you have information the guy who tabbed it didn't have.

If you sit down and tab songs ajdowton without knowing how it was played originally I can assure you that you will from time to time end up playing notes on the wrong string.
That will happen to to the guy with the greatest ear in the world to.

But there are of course really crappy tabs. I have seen quite a lot even in official tab books.
Official tab books that have really big mistakes should be given away for free.

Bongo Boy
01-06-2004, 03:51 AM
So I guess this means there's absolutely no chance of getting this thread back on topic?

sweetious
01-06-2004, 06:03 AM
Yeah bongo its funny I just read this whole thread and was dismayed at the lack of respect...

Anubis
01-06-2004, 11:08 AM
Well my advice to Ripped Idenity would be this.
First of all ask yourself what you want to do with your guitar playing.
Here are some goals most people have.

1. Become a professional guitarist.

2. Be in a band and play the songs you like to listen to.

3. Be a bedroom guitar player.


2 and 3 are the most common. I think it is important to have some sort of vision of what you want to do because then you know what you need to work on.

In your first post you said you could play parts of Iron Man and some other songs.
That's a good start and what most people do in the beginning.
If you want to be in a band you will also need to learn complete songs not only a few riff and licks of different songs. This is where many fail. We all know people who can play a few seconds of many famous songs but not one complete song.
As a guitar player you must have a repertoire at least if you're going to be in a band.
The best way to learn a complete song is to get a decent tab for it and also a backing track that you can practice the song over. A backing track is the most important thing of all.
Most people can play along to the recording of the original song but is lost when you play them only the backing. But just keep working on playing over the backing track even though you do a lot of mistakes in the beginning.






what songs should i learn? and i don't no if i should learn the scales and chords(i no the basic 7) or if i should keep learning songs
What songs you want to learn is hard for others to tell because that must be something you chose yourself based on what you like.
When it comes to learning songs or learning scales you should do both but it's more important to learn songs then scales.
What you will find out after playing for a few years is that no matter how much you learn (scales, theory etc..) you will always feel that there is so much more to learn.
Even after 23 years of playing I still feel like a beginner myself many times.
So don't get frustrated because you sometimes feel you ain't getting better or is stuck.
That happens to everyone.
When it comes to learning scales you should start out by learning the major and minor pentatonic.
Learn the A Minor pentatonic all over the neck for example. That's a good start.
If you're just going to play rock music you don't need to know a million scales.
The minor and major pentatonic is a good start.

Another VERY important thing that any guitar player should work hard on especially in the beginning is bending and vibrato. I consider working on this to be more important then learning scales but of course you can work on both at the same time.
A good left hand vibrato technique is what separates the pros from the amateurs in my opinion.
When I was a teenager I hanged out a lot at my local music store and some of the guys who worked there could play pretty much anything. They could play a simple rock songs with a simple solo that even I could play but the difference was that when they did it everything sounded 1000 times better then when I did it. I couldn't understand why back then but I can today.
When they just hit one note it sounded so good and when I hit a note it sounded like crap. The reason was they had a good left hand vibrato technique and also knew how to bend string accurate.
This is actually hard to master. For example bend the 15th fret on the B-string a whole step and add a little vibrato at the top. If you look at a tab of something like that it looks pretty easy but making it sound good yourself is really hard and takes a long time to master.
I always tell beginners to practice simple things such as this. Just bend a string a whole step and try to remember that you are actually aiming to reach another note. You are not just bending a string for the sake of bending. Once you have mastered string bending to a certain degree you will always use it in solos. Play a solo without bending is what most of us does in the beginning.
Once we can do decent string bends it's like every solo we play reaches another level.

There are tons of good articles at this site that will keep beginners busy for months.
Erics article on string bending and vibrato is good.
Read it now !! Don't do it tomorrow or think you're going to do it next week.
Get this information in your head and under your fingers right away.

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/123








also another reason that i haven't ben able to learn the whole versions of those songs is bad tabs, im reading the tab and listen to the song and they cant be correct, so those are my excuses
If you need accurate tabs check out the powertab archive.
Most tabs there are very accurate.

http://www.powertabs.net/


Many questions that people have in these forums have already been answered.
As I mentioned there are many great articles at this site that will give beginners lots of new ideas and things to work on.
Everyone needs to practice for example.
Why not spend some time today reading Erics articles about the subject?

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/113






Today the market is full of different products like instructional DVDs, instructional books etc..
Having some good instructional material at home is always good to have even though you have a teacher.
Over the years I have got my hands on more instructional videos and books then I will ever need.
I don't recommend this to anyone but at the same time it is always good to have stuff around.
But it is of course better to buy one video and one book and study it for years then being in my situation. One good thing about having many videos is that even though I don't always learn from them it is always inspiring to watch good guitar players.
Here's one of many sites with good instructional material and jam tracks.

http://www.licklibrary.com

Anubis
01-06-2004, 11:18 AM
As mentioned many people start to play guitar because they want to learn the songs they like to listen to.
When Internet was new there was (and still is) many crap sites with crap tabs but over the years more and more good tab sites have popped up.
Powertab sites is usually best.


http://www.beepworld.de/members12/guitar-steve/

http://www.justpowertabs.com/

http://www.mikesguitarsite.co.uk/

http://www.solteka.com/powertabs/

http://www.guitarplayer.ru/notes/

http://www.geocities.com/kisspowertabs/

http://www.freewebs.com/80s_rock/

http://www.timesmirror.it/powertab/

http://ptbfiles.cjb.net/

http://www.geocities.com/peve59/tabs.html

http://tripoutch.free.fr/presentation.htm

http://www.geocities.com/winkken/Musicworks.html

http://jreva.iespana.es/jreva/tabPT.htm

http://tonymacalpine.tripod.com/Transcriptions.htm

http://acousticpower.com/