7th string Of Doom

[EricV]

Hi guys...

I don´t remember whether this was discussed at Ibreathe already ( I think not ), but...

ABout 7-string guitars. I came to think about this when I was watching the new video at George Lynch´s website (http://www.georgelynch.com) ( go there and click on the George´s tattoo on the main picture to see the video )...
George shows off a new ESP baritone guitar, and mentions how much he likes to play it.
Well, within the recent few years, seven string guitars have become very popular. Almost every bigger company offers a 7-string. Music by bands like Korn, Limp Bizkit, and even Planet X really is full of 7-string stuff ( not too mention Steve Vai´s frequent use of 7 strings ever since "Passion & Warfare" )
OK, 7 strings are cool. I used some occasionally, like in the studio, or when I was playing with an act where I needed to play one, borrowed one on that occasion.
It is not that hard to get into playing on eif you´re used to 6 strings... and today, you can get a lot of replacement stuff ( pickups etc. ) for 7 strings too... it has become some kind of a common thing.

Now that baritone guitar in Lynch´s video reminded me of a discussion with a luthier and a few of my colleagues like 2 years ago. We discussed 7-strings, and agreed on something:

The modern 7-string guitars are cool and easy to get into, but actually, a normal guitar is not supposed to have something like a lower 7th string. This is because of the scale of the guitar... the length of the neck, length of the strings.
Ever wondered why basses have longer necks than guitars do ? Well if you have really thick strings on, you need a long neck. Otherwise the strings won´t sound right. You are producing very low frequencies with bass strings or a 7th guitar string, and in order to have the 7th string sounding equal to the other 6 ( equal in definition and volume ), you actually would need a longer neck. I noticed that on most 7string-axes I played, the 7th string somehow missed definition... it sounded unbalanced compared to the other 6. Tough to explain.
But a lot of fellow players agree on it.
I recommend trying a baritone guitar if you need really low notes. Baritone guitars have longer necks / scales. You will have to use a different tuning, and will only have 5 or 6 strings, but IMHO ( and I am not the only one who thinks so ), a baritone guitar really sounds better on the low notes. The low strings do have the tension they need to produce those full-sounding low frequencies.
It´s just a matter of opinion though, and the lack of definiton of the low B-string on a 7string doesn´t kill me or anything, but... if I am in the studio and I have a choice, I´d pick the baritone for those low frequencies.
Hope this was of interest for some of you
Eric

[Bongo Boy]

Makes sense, and the same logic should apply to the 5-, 6-, 7- (and more) bass instruments. Not to mention the ridiculousness of playing a fretted instrument that's 15cm wide at the nut.

It makes sense because there's some physics involved, no? I think the physics are: you have to use tension and mass alone to get two strings of equal length to have different natural frequencies. Changing only these two variables to get significant differences in the natural frequency of the string would naturally lead to trouble from an acoustics perspective.

Now, if you took the time to build a 7-string like an inverted banjo--then you'd potentially solve this problem. In other words, modify the nut and headstock to accomodate a 7th string that's actually a better (longer) length.

This would introduce another problem--one string having a significantly different vibration amplitude than the others. Meaning: decent action for the top 6 strings is too low for the 7th one. Maybe if you want a stringed instrument with a 5-octave range you need to go to a synth.

[MetallicTheatre]

hey dudes,

My brother has an Ibanez 7 string and it plays really well and sounds good!!
but i cant stand it!!
the extra string confuses me and it looks so chunky and gay!!
well thats just my opinion. (i dont particuarly like that bands that use them though)! But steve vai is a living legend!!

Aaron

Ps. just a question, Is steve vai better than jimi hendrix used to be?

[Guni]

Originally posted by MetallicTheatre
My brother has an Ibanez 7 string and it plays really well and sounds good!!
but i cant stand it!!
the extra string confuses me and it looks so chunky and gay!!Does it really matter on how something looks if it is used to create a musical effect or expression? I don't think so.

Ps. just a question, Is steve vai better than jimi hendrix used to be? This is a question without an answer and we won't elaborate on this in our forums. There are many aspects to it, decade, technology, political situation, personal backgrounds, etc etc etc .... but this still would not lead to a satisfying answer.... please stick to our forum topics.

Guni

[szulc]

Was DiVinci better or Michaelanglo?

When someone attains a certain level of artistry, comparisons with other artists are meaningless. Everyone has their own brain, personality and soul. To compare these disparate things would be as comparing apples and oranges. It also will boil down to a matter of OPINION and therefore is totally SUBJECTIVE. The question could have been answered if you made it into a poll of who people preferrefd to listen to, this too is meaningless since all that really matters is what do YOU like or who do YOU prefer listening to,
I will state further that the Steve Vai we know would be a substantially different player had Jimi Hendrix not attained the fame that he did, I believe that could be said about many of the players that have emerged onto the music scene since 1967.

Steve was taught by Joe Satraini and Joe is a big Hendrix fan ("Strange Beautiful" is a Hendrix reference to "Third Stone from the Sun' ).

Steve has the advantage of much improvment in string and guitar technology not to mention amps and effects ( plus the arsenal of technique learned from all the great players around since 1970, when Hendrix died), not to mention Steve attended Berkley at a very young age and then became the transcriptionist and guitar player for Frank Zappa who was , no doubt, an evil taskmaster.

Everyone is going to have some little signature style or idea that no one else can imitate, this is what makes syle unique, different fingers connected to a different mind.

It is good for you to be critical of your own playing, but just listen to other peoples music and decide for your self if there is somthing you like about it or worth incorporating into your own style.

Another thing, there are many great technical players out there today, but technique is only part of the equation.
Spontaneity, emotion, 'feel', imagination can all be more important than technique.

Some people are great songwriters but not very accomplished players. Most great players are not great songwriters. Very few great players are also great singers.

[szulc]

Imagination is more important than knowledge.

A. Einstein

[Bongo Boy]

Originally posted by Guni
Does it really matter on how something looks if it is used to create a musical effect or expression? I don't think so

Probably not so much, at least in the case of the serious, creative musician who's number one objective is to accomplish a particular 'expressive' task. This is the case where the instrument is more analogous to the sculptor's chisel or the painter's brush.

But for many (I'd say most) others, sure it does. Depending on what's a higher priority for the individual, it's ALL about aesthetics. The brush is confused with the painting itself--and when you see the guitar, you see the Stage (for example).

I LOVE this topic. Pete Townshend was quoted as saying something like, "It's not as though I have a love affair with the guitar. I just play the f**kin' thing, not polish it." At the other end of the spectrum--I ran into some conga players who treat this factory-made instrument like a religious artifact--with 'reverence' and 'respect' (for an inanimate object) being common language. I get it...there's far more to music than what meets the ear. The little drum itself comes to represent the integration of humanity, culture and rhythm.

When it comes to gear, I have little doubt there are as many folks who enjoy it because of the shiny knobs and pretty lights (myself included) as there are those who just see tools!

[DracWell]

Hey Eric, Ibanez have a 7-string with an extra long neck just to fix the tension with the lower string =) It looks really nice too, the problem I can think about is that you have to learn two things. 1. play on a thicker neck and 2nd on a longer neck. the last one might just be a little irritation, I haven't tried it.

[Danster]

Originally posted by Guni
[B]Does it really matter on how something looks if it is used to create a musical effect or expression? I don't think so.
Bongo touched on this earlier, but since DracWell brought up this post again (and I have 7 more minutes to kill before I leave work :D), I'll give my $0.02. It matters to me greatly how a guitar looks. I don't know if I'll ever own a Strat, even though I really like electric blues, and thats what electric blues players mostly play, because the damn things are so ugly. I just can't take a pick guard on a guitar. (Once I play mine enough that they are scratched like crazy, maybe I'll change my tune). I love the look of the Godin LG. The Les Paul look is growing on me a little. I don't like the oddly shaped guitars too much, like the Flying V, the Explorer, or most of the weirdo BC Rich shapes. I don't like sunburst guitars with the yellow to orangy middle. I like deep red best. I'd rather have a good lookin' guitar than a good lookin' car. OTOH, I could care less about the appearance of my amp, as long as it does what it should.

Cheers,
Dan

[Daimonion]

yup, the 27" scale length of the Ibanez 1077XL is a lethal tool. i've tried this one at my dealer's & i must admit that it has more appealing tone than the Ibanez Universe IMO :eek: the extended scale & the Dimarzios in there combine real well. the only thing that prevented me from buying it now is that i'm waiting for the revised 2003 version of this guitar... :p

anyway, i own the other 7-string by ibanez, the 25.5" RG7620. i must say that having a 7string needs a set-up revision to prevent the 7th string repulsive tone from rearing its ugly head. it's a straight love/ hate affair. it sounded awful when i auditioned it at the shop but i kept my faith in it knowing that i can get what i wanna hear with my set-up at home. that was a big risk... to me the 7th string is natural transition, there was no confusion whatsoever, it's just another B, so what works with the high B, works on the lower counterpart.

the 7string has been fashionable lately due to its propulsion by certain players but these chaps IMO can't quite play them. the reason why a 6-string baritone better suit their needs since they peddle power chords most of the time. the 7string really shines in the hands of creative manipulators like:

*Commander Steve Vai :cool:
*Trey Azagthoth (Morbid Angel)
*Thordendal & Hagstrom (Meshuggah)- hey all, Ibanez is currently collaborating with them to manifest an *GASP* 8-string...
*Ihsan (Emperor)
*Petrucci