Music Metaphysics 101

[EricV]

I´d much rather have a Shakira-Strat :)
Warm regards
Eric

NP: Marty Friedman-Scenes

[bluecollarman]

Originally posted by Bongo Boy
If only Fender made a Britney Spears Signature Telecaster, I'm sure we'd all pitch in and buy one for you guys :D

Doesn't an "artist" normally have to play an instrument for a manufacturer to create a "signature" model?

Like "Britney Spears Signature Lip-Syncing Headset"?


LOL. She's a cute kid from my home state!

[Bongo Boy]

Originally posted by szulc
Don't say that too loud or Fender will make one. But it would probably be a Strat.

Yup. Right after I did the post I realized my marketing faux pas. Clearly, for the alliteration benefits alone, it MUST be a strat.

I´d much rather have a Shakira-Strat

Oh my goodness--I think my wife just spent $1000 on Shakira clothes (and the Shakira CD)--God help me. I do have to say I love the CD tho---please don't banish me from the site!!

Doesn't an "artist" normally have to play an instrument for a manufacturer to create a "signature" model?

Oh sure, normally--but not a big requirement in this case. If you thought you could get her to say "Oh my, your guitar is so big and shiny!!" in Spanish, you might settle for her simply holding the instrument in an 'artistic' manner, and let her endorse the damn thing. Eh?

[EricV]

Hey Bongo Boy,

I like some songs of that CD too... and the guitar parts are cool too. They were played by Tim Pierce, who is a great player ( if you get a chance to, check out his album "Guitarland" ).
I recently saw her in the MTV "Icons" Aerosmith-tribute show, and she went on stage and sang "(Dude) Looks Like A Lady"... and she did a great job. It definitely was a rock n roll-show.
I meet you on the "Banished from Ibreathe"-board, k ? :)
Eric

[bluecollarman]

Originally posted by EricV
I meet you on the "Banished from Ibreathe"-board, k ? :)
Eric

LOL. I am so glad I found this place. Coming here to read forums first thing in the morning is much more enjoyable than reading the morning news!

[Bongo Boy]

Originally posted by bluecollarman
Coming here to read forums first thing in the morning is much more enjoyable than reading the morning news!

Well, certainly much more informative too, since we often get into important, core issues such as whether or not Shakira should be allowed to endorse for Fender. Where else are you going to get THAT? The morning news is little more than the daily body count--here we get into the important stuff :D

[Guni]

Originally posted by bluecollarman
Doesn't an "artist" normally have to play an instrument for a manufacturer to create a "signature" model? Here's my proposal for the recording industry: After a real convincing' and rockin' "I love Rock'n Roll" I suggest that Britney comes out with a heartwarming "While my guitar gently (s)weeps". This should win her the hearts of at least 1 million guitar players, a deal with Fender and not to forget a Grammy for "Best NEW Song".:rolleyes:

G.

[EricV]

Oh, are we in sarcastic mode ?
Well... how about Britney records an album full of all the rock songs that influenced her ?...
"Stairway To Heaven"... shortened by about 4 min., featuring an extended "Ow Ow"-break.
"This Love" ( Pantera )...slightly edited, featuring bunches of those sappy keyboards
"Roots" ( Sepultura ) the video will feature an extended dance-passage
"Highway To Hell"... to add that "rock n roll" feel, she´ll drink beer... from a shotglass
"Cat Scratch Fever" ( Ted Nugent )... in the video, Britney will act as if she´s actually playing the solo, which will top the authenticity of "I Love..."
"Bang Bang" ( Danger Danger )... can anyone imagine that video ?
Still waiting for her version of "Paradise City"... you know, that song by the guys who wrote "Knocking On Heaven´s Door" ( j/k, quoting a student of mine... )
Eric

[Guni]

Oh My!!!! LOL

Ok, that's it - I'm onto setting up the "Banished from Ibreathe" board ........:D

[EricV]

...and I guess I´ll be the moderator, huh ? =)
At least I know where the background music´ll be taken from...

Anyway, what a bummer I won´t make it to London this week. But we´ll meet up pretty soon anyway ( at the Britney fan convention, right ? OK OK I´ll stop already ! )
Eric

[EricV]

.... but to stop the silliness for now... I am not Pro- or Anti-Britney. Her music is not my cup of tea. I don´t complain about her success or whatever neither. It´s just entertainment... all those teenagers who buy her records and merchandise do not really care about whether she writes her own songs or whatever. It´s just entertainment.
And I din´t get mad about "I Love Rock N Roll" neither... first of all, I really like the video... ( some of the stuff she´s doing with the mic is prohibited in about 15 states, I believe ), and second of all, whoever wrote ILRR ( did Joan Jett write it ? ) at least gets a bunch of money, which is cool.
Just my opinion

K, I´m off to watch "Rock Star" now ( feat. the amazing Zakk Wylde )
Eric

[Guni]

I 100% agree!!!

Nothing wrong with Britney at all.

I am just puzzled by the music business side of things. How music is sold and how they push sales, artists etc ....

Guni

[EricV]

A lot of people are puzzled about that, I´d say :)
I guess once one figures out that it pretty much is messed up, one might be able to just deal and thereby make his / her life way easier :)
Eric

[Bongo Boy]

Originally posted by Guni
I am just puzzled by the music business side of things. How music is sold and how they push sales, artists etc ....

"I'm no expert, but..." this is a packaging thing. It's not so much music, per se, but the experience and the image. It's sort of like designing and selling a car to appeal as a 'sports car', when the stereo has more power than the engine and it has the suspension of a Buick. It's NOT a sports car, but it looks kinda like one and folks can buy it and put the top down, have fun and convey the desired image.

So it is with music I suppose. We have Britney, the Bangles, Kenny G and Vanilla Ice--the arguments go on and on as to whether this is music or not, etc. It doesn't matter whether it's 'really music' or 'really a sports car'. Only artists or car aficionados care--and they're not the buyers.

Someone once said "No one ever lost a buck underestimating the public". The business guy is selling cool, hip and fun--music & video just happen to be the business his/her company is in at the moment--as opposed to the steel and plastic of the automaker.

[EricV]

Bongo, you´re absolutely right.
That´s what I think too. After all, it´s all ENTERTAINEMENT.
It doesn´t matter whether the Spice Girls write ther own songs or not, or whether Hanson actually played their instruments or whatever... it´s entertainment, the teens like it ( regardless of whether they do because they just liek the music or because the "industry" promoted their product and defined it "cool" so it sells well ).
It´s entertainment. Kiss, Alice Cooper, all those guys noticed that... that was the reason for all masquerade, the pyros etc.
Or look at Ozzy... I love his albums, he was a huge influence for rock and metal ( IMHO he still is ), but he also is a smart business man... look at the success of his TV-show ( which is hilarious, too ! )

Anyway, I do not compare Britney to... I dunno... Greg Howe. I like entertainment, and if ´taht is what I want, I go into a movie theater or whatever. Howe i.e. is another level... I listen to him mainly because of his music. So it´s two different thinsg to me.
And I don´t get mad about the biz and its rules anymore... I just look at it as what it is: a business, focussing on making money by producing entertainment.
Bla bla...

Anyway, IMHO, some of the songs by Shakira are actually very well-written, good, basic songs. I think they are.
Same goes for that "2 become 1" song by teh Spice Girls. WHOEVER wrote it, it´s a really good song, and I can ignore all the merchandise and stuff...
Did anyone here ever hear Paul Gilbert´s version of "2 become 1" ?
He recorded it for his "Alligator Farm" album, it rocks !
And during some of his workshops, he played that song too, telling all the visitors how much he likes the song and how cool the chords actually are...
Eric

[szulc]

This is like the man who crawled out and saw the light, he wants to go back and tell them all that it is just an illusion. They don't want to know and don't care, and they will want to kill you if you destroy their illusion.

Most people don't know the difference between George Thoroughgood and Greg Howe, and if you asked them who was better they would pick George because he plays stuff they have heard.

It is only those who really know music who can be good critics of it, and most people don't know.
So let them wallow in their sea of mediocrity, ignorant bliss.
We all like Britney's looks, this is somthing anyone can relate too.
But I would not hold my breath to wait for inspiring music from her or the ilk, that is not their function. They are supposed to make every one fantasize about them so you will buy (lust for) their 'fast food'(Mcdonalds) music, until burger king has a better deal.

[The Bash]

Very well put Plato.

King Crimson means absolutely nothing to the average person flipping on the radio. About the only inspiration they’d receive from the experience is the inspiration to flip the station.
That’s one the things I dig about them, they can rid your home of a roomful of unwanted people in a heartbeat. I’ve had people go as far as to not so polity insist that my personal musical preferences suck. Well…I guess it’s like watching Spinal Tap and laughing your but off and the person next to ya’s sitting there with a blank look on their face going, “I don’t get it.” Sure there’s plenty of stuff in that movie that masses would find funny “obvious humor”, but I guarantee those of us in the band business “got” a lot more humor out of it than those “out of the know.” All they can offer up is, “I just don’t get it.” And that’s the point really, they don’t get it.

You can go on all day explaining why (fill the band) is cool. They rhythms are intricate, there’s a killer back beat, he’s playing all the wrong notes but making all the right sounds, he resolves this or that so cleverly etc. All crap really. Why it may be true it’s also worthless. Explain one of them Spinal Tap jokes you laughed your but off over, and they didn’t get, and a rousing “Oh” is all your gonna get, they might even go as far to go “He-hee” but deep down they still don’t truly get enough to mean something strong enough to cause a gut wrenching reaction.

And why it’s true (fill in the band) may so cleverly (fill in all the cool things they do), all that really matters is that it moves you on some level.
I dig (fill in the blank) simply cause I do.

So whether it’s Stravinsky or the Sex Pistols, The Beatles or Brittany Spears, the fact it moves someone on some level validates it.
I don’t know what someone gets out of Miss Spears anymore than they know what I get out of Frank Zappa.
Maybe it’s as simple as “It’s got a good beat and I can Dance to it. And maybe it’s the fact I can’t dance that allows me to dance just fine to Frank Zappa.

[Bongo Boy]

These ideas, especially szulc's comment re: Britney and packaging vs music, made me think of the Beatles and the Beatles vs Lennon/McCartney.

Initially you have a packaging phenom--packaging that got very sophisticated, certainly for the 60s. While there may have been tons of latent talent, we didn't initially get the Beatles due to any evident songwriting skill or musicianship, either. It was a cool package with a very cool beat--covers of some pretty awful 50s R&R in some cases.

But that latent (or suppressed) talent quickly emerged (quickly, at least, for those in the US) in songwriting--even if none of these guys were great instrumentalists (I don't think anyone ever cited Lennon as guitarist--I don't know).

So...while I wouldn't hold my breath either, it IS possible that Britney has extraordinary [musical] talent waiting to be nurtured--remember, her boss is someone in Marketing (or Engineering).

Hope I've stimulated some destructive emotional responses :D

[EricV]

Hey Bongo Boy,

I agree... it is possible IMHO. Maybe she is not someone who practised for a long time and spend years working on her music ( which is one of the main hang-ups for many who get angry about this topic... like "Man, how come that guys like Noodles, Head & Munky ( sounds like a cartoon-trio, doesn´t it ? ) are on the cover of all the guitar mags, while VIRTUOSOS like Howe are not"... again, it´s entertainment, so I really don´t care... )

But I dunno whether we´ll ever hear it. See, the industry-side of it is that most of the time, a "professional songwriter", who sits in his / her office all day long writing songs ( this is a common thing in Nashville & LA, and companies like BMG do have offices full of songwriters who write for them ) writes a new tune for Britney, which fits to her image, the other songs she did...
Then, the music is recorded by a good producer and well-paid studio musicians, until Britney comes in and sings her part.

I highly doubt that she currently has much input in the songwriting or production. And I wonder whether we´ll get to hear more of HER... I mean, I am pretty convinced that she´ll be gone within the next 3-4 years... anyone remember Milli Vanilli ? Snap ? Jon Secada ? Hanson ? The New Kids On The Block ? ( I could go on for a while, but I think you get the point ).

Might be that all these "Hip today, gone later today" acts sit in their log cabins these days, with a piano and a broken heart, writing really beautiful honest songs... but I doubt we´ll get to hear them...
Eric

PS: This reminds me of my popular "2 things I never got about the Milli Vanilli"-affair...
1. Why did people trash their records after it became public knowledge that those two dudes didn´t sing on them ? I mean, ok, the guys might have lost credibility there, but hey... did the records sound WORSE after the truth came out? I mean, one day half the world was dancing to those songs, the next day they trash them... weird.
2. How come people got up all mad about those two guys not singing on their records or lip-synching on stage, while these days, no one really gives a sh** anymore ?
I mean, I was watching a recording of some European Dancefloor-event with a friend of mine ( he is not a musician ). So, we watch this show where all the currently "hip" dancefloor acts appear. And it´s so absolutely obvious that NONE of them has the mic plugged in. Does anyone notice? I think so. Does anyone care ? I think not...
At last, one of the bands ( I believe it was the Bloodhound Gang ) walked on stage and actually dared to play live ( I wonder how they got the permission to do so... ) And you know what ? My buddy said "Dude, this sounds bad... doesn´t sound as good on the record..."
I rest my case.
And no, I do not expect an actual answer to the 2 questions. Maybe it´s just something to think about... or something else to help to just accept those "biz-rules" and just deal with them.

[szulc]

I like King Crimson, but I must admit that some of the stuff on 'Starless and Bible Back' is intelectual snobbery, from a technical musical standpoint. How many people really get the fact that this one song is all whole tone scale or in 5/ 4 and 7/4 time?
I like it and think it's cool mostly BEACUSE I get it, but most people think it is gibberish.

[EricV]

Hi there

( BTW: Even though this thread started with a completely different topic... I almost think we should move this one over to the "General Stuff"-forum... doesn´t have much to do with "Site Suggestions", huh ? )

James, I hear ya... There are a bunch of records that I just can´t get into because I just think it seems to be only about the technical aspect.

You know, those records that are completely amazing regarding playing technique and composition, but there seems to be something missing... songs, or maybe some "heart"...

I dunno. I guess it´s a matter of opinion. I mean, there are some albums that have amazing, very complicated stuff on there, and I am like "Wow, man, six different time signatures within 8 bars of music", but I just can´t listen to it other than to analyze it. So it´s not really something to lean back and listen to.
Of course, for someone else it might be the coolest music in the world. For me it isn´t. I don´t wanna mention actual names here, but there are a bunch of those records...

By the way: HAs anyone here ever listened to MESHUGGAH ?Mean, those guys are ALIENS. Thorsten K. turned me on to that stuff. It´s a band playing EXTREMELY heavy, agressive music. And at the same time, it´s just... I dunno... absolutely strange.
I played one of their songs to a few friends of mine ( musicians ), and some of them were not able to tell where the 1 ( as in 1-2-3-4, the downbeat ) is after a while...
Just stuff that is completely out of this world, absolutely insane mixtures of time signatures, combined with some extremely heavy music.
I can listen to that only if I am in the right mood, and sometimes I am like "Man, this sure is cool, almost funny cuz it´s so unpredictable, but at the same time... where´s the song ?!?"
Check those guys out, though !
Eric

[The Bash]

There’s defiantly a place and time for everything.
Though I find My favorite songs are those you could classify as a pop song in some way.
I’d “Call Take it Off the Top” a pop song. To me Morse is a great pop songwriter, as were the Beatles, as was Bach etc. etc. etc.

And Bongo your Beatles marketing comment was right in the money.

[Bongo Boy]

I LOVE this topic...whatever it is. It does need to be moved tho...as Eric suggested. What's cool about the thread is that we're trying to apply some reason and sensibility to our strong emotions...makes for the best gentlemanly arguments in the world. Lots of historical precedent, and it's an art that seems so often lost--the art of arguing about something, in a civilized way, when we might rather just bash each other's heads in. I exaggerate to make a point, okay?

Eric is spot-on re: how much influence an artist such as Britney might have over the final outcome--I'm not speaking from first-hand knowledge, but c'mon. "Britney...just cog in wheel of life."

As for intellectual snobbery--again I say, it's to be expected that folks want to experiment with what they've learned. You get moved by it, or not--it's that simple. Mozart pounded out a few concertos that bring tears to my eyes or send chills up my spine--the Ramones do the SAME THING with Bonzo Goes to Bitburg. And it's a silly ballad kinda thing!

So who did the analysis on this? I'm thinking Mozart was a little more cerebral with his 'short little concertos' than those guys in Queens were. Result in either case is--beautiful stuff--at least for this beholder. So we have to give King Crimson some space ( I can't believe they're still recording--I think I saw them in my high school gym in 70 or 71).

So here's the scenario: a guy learns all about scales and intervals and chords and transistions and arpeggiation and that stuff. Produces crap. Why? Well jeeez...you gotta be excited, eh? I mean...Billy Idol, in his Generation X days...kicked much kiester. Pretty sedate stuff...but crank up "100 Punks" and get out of my way, buddy!!! Probably expended 3 chords max in that tune--uh..if there were any chords at all--I can't remember.:)

Again, I thought Zappa got into an awful lot of technical prowess demonstrations...a little shock lyrics...and I loved it. So, I think we have to see music a lot like we see paintings down at the gallery. A lot of 'em suck, and lot of 'em are 'genious'....well, that's this week. A Campbell's soup can DOES say something--and folks will be arguing over whether or not it's art for as long as it hangs on the wall.

Oooh...I just realized I'm ranting aimlessly. Sorry. I go home now.

[Bongo Boy]

...and right now I'm boppin' in my chair to Ricardo Lemvo and his Makina Loca band. I don't even know what this IS...but I do know I want more, and I want it louder.

[Bongo Boy]

Originally posted by EricV
HAs anyone here ever listened to MESHUGGAH ?... absolutely strange. I played one of their songs to a few friends of mine ( musicians ), and some of them were not able to tell where the 1 ( as in 1-2-3-4, the downbeat )

Cool topic. As a budding young whitebread conguero, I've traveled the internet world listening to and researching afro-cuban, african and latin jazz stuff. The universal disgust of the salsa world with the concept of a downbeat is inspiring. To my ear, NOTHING happens on the beat. I'm out of my mind trying to understand some of these rythms. After SIX MONTHS I still cannot do a 2-3 clave with my pedal and play a 4/4 tumbao at the same time. Physically impossible. I've watched Bobby Sanabria do it with no problem, and watched Richie Gajate-Garcia do it AND play a cowbell AND the timbales--no apparent neuron fibrolation.

It's genetic--except maybe for that wacky Bozzio dude :D

[EricV]

Hey Bash...

I agree, Steve always manages to throw in some melodies, very memorable stuff that sticks to your ear. Gotta love that. I mean, his music is quite demanding, technically difficult, but if you listen to songs like "Good To Go", "Ionized", "Mountain Waltz", "The Oz"... those are great hooklines. Some of them "haunted" me for days and weeks in a row.
That is why Steve is one of my favorite musicians, guitarists and songwriters. I can listen to something by him in almost every mood... I mean, "Ghostwind", "Endless Waves" and the second half of "Prognosis" helped me so much when my grandpa passed away 2 years ago. Those songs are SO beautiful and they kinda helped me deal with all the stuff that was happening abck then.

Then again, when I get up in the morning, and I wanna listen to some cool uptempo stuff to get started, I listen to "Sacred Ground" or "Good To Go", and that gets me going.

Or how about those haunting sounds of the "Great Spectacular" album by the Dixie Dregs, featuring all those early versions of Dregs-songs. I think some of them sound so mysterious... I love that.

Eric

[EricV]

Bongo,
I agree... there are some people who work hard to get their chops and to be able to play amazing stuff, but it seems to lack that "fire"...
I went through that for a while. The earlier versions of "Atlanta Dawn" and "Canyon Of SPirits" were plastered with solos and stuff. Then I listened back to them and thought "Man, those do not bring over what I was tring to bring over"... I had to work on "letting go", trying to play them from the heart instead of just from the brain. Which is tough sometimes when you´re in the studio surrounded by people, mics and deadlines.
But to me, the current versions are a bit more from "from the gut", which was the goal.

Regarding listening to differen music... I always had hard times to stick to one style of music or one band... I mean, throughout one day I might listen to music by Racer X, Frank Zappa, Puddle Of Mudd, TAFKAP, Meshuggah, The Black Crowes, The Corrs... depending on my mood, on what I feel like listening to next.
I couldn´t listen to only Heavy Metal or only instrumental stuff all day long. Sometimes I wanna hear stuff like Liquid Tension Experiment, then, next I wanna listen to something completely different, so I might throw in a few country tunes, just a few well-written songs ( I love the songwriting in many country tunes, and I sometimes make up CDs with current country-"hits"... )

And I think it is a lot of fun that way, very interesting. Kinda being "surrounded by music".
Eric

[The Bash]

Page and Hendrix were guitar heroes but not every song has a guitar solo.
I remember working up what I thought was a cool sounding solo section and taking the song into rehearsal only to find my “this is so cool part” didn’t really do much for the song. So I went up rearranged my tune so my “this is cool part” would work, only to find at next rehearsal even though the part fit better the song suffered (at least in my opinion). So I went home and killed my little darling. Next time the song worked. Guess the moral of the story is I still remember the song, I’ve no clue how my “this is so cool” part went. It couldn’t have been that important.

And I agree with guys. I think a lot has to do with personality. Guitarist get picked on a lot for lack of proficiency, then they ripped for to much proficiency. I don’t think that matters as much as what you gotta say and how you say it. (Though I do find I like my guitarist to least be abel to bend notes in tune.) Same to me’s true of singers. I’ve heard some people with amazing technical voices that do nothing for me. Maybe sometimes it’s lack of emotion, or simply I don’t care for the actual sound of their voice. Bono for example doesn’t always hit the pitch dead on, he even sounds like he just might even make it next note but he use’s that to emotional effect. A lot of blues players are the same way. I’ve hear Steve Vai call himself the world’s worst blues player. I’m not gonna agree or disagree with him but the fact he’s so technically proficient may have something to do with his perception. It may not be natural to him to get a little sloppy when need be, let alone convincingly give the perception he just might make the next note when he knows full well he can.

This is a cool topic, but I agree we should move it
Maybe call it: Musical Metaphysics 101

NP: The Beatles “Revolver”

[EricV]

Bash, I did just that ( splitting and renaming it into two separate threads... ) Thanks for the name suggestion =)

Anyway, I think that Vai referred to himself as a bad bluesplayer mainly because he didn´t ( maybe still doesnt ) care for that kind of music too much.
Which is a bold statement. And I appreciate he had the guts to say it. I mean, of course every guitarist owes something to the blues in some way or another, but if it´s "not for you", well, then so be it. But you can be seriously torn to pieces by some people if you dare something like that
( Those same guys who tell you about all these "classic" albums by Beck or Clapton or Page, and if you happen to not know them, they´ll be like "WHAT ? YOU DON´T KNOW THAT RECORD ? MAN, IT`S A CLASSIC... EVERYONE KNOWS IT"... I often thought that most likely, thoseguys don´t know those records themselves, but instead refer to one of those "THE MOST IMPORTANT ROCK ALBUMS EVER"-lists that occasionally are printed by the "important musc mags"... seriously, there are SO many albums that are considered important, you almost can´t know them all...
I never really listened to "BEck-Ola" and learned to play guitar anyway... )
However, regardless of whether I agree with Vai or not, I think it´s quite impressive that, in the sometimes very old-fashioned world of guitar, he did a "blasphemy" like that.
Matter of opinion, I guess
Eric

[The Bash]

Thnxs Eric :)

I agree I respect Vai for saying that. And maybe he's right in a Hard Core blues puriset sense, but what's the blues really.
I think by nature steve's so leftfield it's not easy for him to be a puriest at anything. I heard Zappa say once straight 4/4 time
was completly unatural for him.

[EricV]

Hey...

I agree. Zappa, Vai and those kinda guys really are doing some alien-stuff. But I think that´s cool, we need guys like them, that´s what I think. Same goes for guys like Allan Holdsworth, Reeves Gabrels, David Torn...

Eric

[Bongo Boy]

Originally posted by EricV
This reminds me of my popular "2 things I never got about the Milli Vanilli"-affair...
1. Why did people trash their records after it became public knowledge that those two dudes didn´t sing on them ? I mean, ok, the guys might have lost credibility there, but hey... did the records sound WORSE after the truth came out? I mean, one day half the world was dancing to those songs, the next day they trash them... weird.

Not weird at all...it's because they weren't buying music, they were buying into a package--heavily wrapped around the image of the artist. It's not an issue of the artist's credibility as an artist--it's an issue of the credibility of the package.

There's no doubt whatsover (in MY mind) that you could successfully market a pop group (at least) that had no talent other than stage presence...synch up those lips, inflate that air guitar, TELL everyone that's what you're doing...and make a fortune. Just have to target the right market and not lie about the package.

[EricV]

See, the whole "buying into a package" thing is something I don´t subscribe to.
I really don´t care that much whether the person has a bunch of musical integrity or is a nice guy. I mean, I draw a line when it comes to things like the artist promoting or supporting racism, stuff like that.
But otherwise, I don´t really care. I mean, Yngwie Malmsteen is considered one of the most bad-tempered and rude persons among those "Guitar heroes", and he made a lot of statements that I do not subscribe to. But I still like to listen to his first album, cuz there is some great playing on there, and I enjoy listening to that.
Same goes for all the pop acts... I don´t mind that they might have been casted for a "label product", that they got their job because of their looks and dancing abilities, and that they might not write or play on their songs. All I care about is: is the song good, do I like it ?
I think a lot of people miss a lot of good music cuz they are concerned too much about the image, presentation and integrity of the artist.

I hear people complain about Korn and those kinda guys, complaining that those dudes are not very good players and that they do not deserve all the attention, while guys like Greg Howe and Steve Morse don´t get enough attention.
Well, that´s the way it is, and you can´t do anything about it. It´s a different league, and a different market to...
Korn are hip, in fashion, and they make agressive and loud music. Many teenagers enjoy that, cuz it helps them to get their agressions out. They don´t care about the playing technique on those albums. They just want to hear music they enjoy.
So I dont really get upset about that whole issue anymore. And:
I think that quite a few people picked up the guitar ( and will pick up the guitar ) because of bands like Korn etc.
Eric

NP: Richie Kotzen / Greg Howe: Tilt

[Bongo Boy]

I with ya. My wife's little car was made in Illinois, not Stuttgart. No one told me the car wasn't made in Germany--no one told me it was made in the US. Was I surprised and just a tiny bit dissappointed--yeah for a few minutes.

But sometimes, if I wash it real good and ask real nice, she lets me drive it a little bit. :D Is it still fun to go around the corners real fast in it, even though skilled German craftsmen didn't laboriously hand assemble it? Uh huh.

I like playing Shakira real loud when I do that, too. Track #8.

[EricV]

Bongo Boy...

exactly ! What matters is: do I like it or not.
I mean, there are bunches of records that were recorded by studio musicians, bunches of live albums which hardly deserve the title "live" ( heavy editing in the studio etc. My favorite example: Dylan on MTV unplugged... listen to that version of "Knocking On Heaven´s Door"... it is ridiculous what they did to it in the studio)
What matters is: do I like the songs... do I enjoy listening to it. If it was about integrity, I would have to burn a big part of my CD collection )

On a slightly different note: people get all mad about the whole issue of KISS-merchandise, claiming that they´re selling out ( well, selling a "Kiss"-casket seems a bit over the edge ). Who cares ? I try to ignore it, I just enjoy listening to that stuff. And on top of that: people are actually buying it, that´s why they keep adding stuff to their merchandise-catalogue. It´s showbiz, dammit !
:)

Warm regards
Eric

[The Bash]

Of Course, Kiss sells out. Kiss Sells out Every Night. They’ve gotten their music across to more people than I ever will. Sure 95% aren’t musicians but when you exchange your art for Money 95% of your listening audience ain’t musicians.
There’s exceptions of Course, Steve Morse for example. I’m pretty sure more people has heard Steve play with Deep Purple than with the Dregs/ or SMB. Almost Everyone knows who Gene Simmons is, how many people have ever heard of Steve Morse. People ask who my favorite guitarist is and they go, “Steve who?” But so what. I know who Steve is and that’s really all that matters to me. Frank Zappa was even more well known for his personality than his music. Again so what. Steve and Frank’s kinna music is out there for those who want it and I think most people who want it have found it. I personally discovered Steve back in 86 or so through his column in GFPM magazine. I guess you could go as far as to say doing that column every month has selling out. I mean it would be a shame for a musician to actually see a steady paycheck. I mean once the money come in you go from serious Musician to sell out (not that Steve got Paid big bucks for his cloum). I mean once a Doctor or Lawyer or (fill in the blank) starts making big money they call him successful. But, if you’re a musician you’re a sell out.
I’ve been called the samething. Once many years back in between bands I took at 6 month touring gig with a Country Band. I admit I got paid well to basically strum G, C and D 3 to 6 hrs a night 5 to 7 nights a week while the Lead Guitarist did all the work. Boring? Well depends on your perspective: Not as Exciting as being Lead Guitarist in a Rock Band but Far more exciting than 9-5 at a job I hate. As was the case with the “Serious Musician” who was of course in between Gigs (and had been for umm…Let’s say most of his Life and probably always will be) and doing the 9-5 thing at a job he despised. So Ok, I’m a Sell Out. Well this sell outs gonna go get paid to play his guitar for the next 4-6 hours and your gonna spend the next 8 doing what?
Ok, enough ranting :)
Point one is I personally like Kiss, there good pop songwriters and are about more than just the makeup and big stageshow, they just happen to function on a completely different level than say the Dregs did.
Point two is would I have discovered Steve if not through the column (probably sooner or latter, most likely Latter, like way latter). Anyway, if that’s selling out. Thumbs up Steve. I discovered you a lot earlier in life due to the fact.
Point three is: Playing Your Guitar is the Greatest Experience of all. Getting Paid to play your Guitar just icing on top it all. Yea I got paid to strum three chords, so what. I could solo my but off all day in the Hotel Room. Music was my 9-5 then I went home (hotel room) and played what I wanted to play no different than any other guitar player with a “Real Job”. Only difference was I got Paid to play mine at work too. And to top it off Now I Teach so I’m sure that’s selling out to. I’m sure I’d be a much better musician if I were living under a underpass begging for food. I think all the noise from the cars whizzing by would be kind of a distraction (The Practice Room Thing). But hey if that’s what it truly takes to be a “Serious Musician”, think I’d rather be a Sellout.

[The Bash]

As a Side Note something that bears mentioning. I got the Gig I referred to above and others like throughout the years not because I was some brilliant Musician but basically because I had a Professional Attitude. That is: Easy to work with, knew the role between Star of the Show and hired hand etc. I’m not saying just cause your nice that’s all it takes a certain amount of skill is required depending on the situation. But the Country Gig for example I defiantly wasn’t picked for my Country Guitar Abilities. We ran through the all tunes one time only then gigged the very next night (that was the first time I’d ever heard about 90% of the songs). I had what keys the tunes were in written right next to the songs on the songlist the next night. So this side note kinna goes hand in hand with that Theory discussion and sight singing. If I’d not known a I from a IV either cue wise or soundwise I’d been Dead in the Street. Well Dead in front of about 500ppl at least. Well ok let’s face it: I’d never got the Gig.

[szulc]

I used to play music as my sole means of income, it paid for my college education, it was great fun and yes some of the time the gigs were not so glamourous. I played mostly in a working Rock Band through the 80's. Mostly bar gigs and frat parties sometimes banquets wedding reunions etc..... This was great fun even when playing stuff we didn't really like. Later I did pick up gigs where I had no idea what we would play until we were actually playing. This was very fun, but challanging. I was allowed great creative freedom, since a lot of the songs I didn't even know and we would be playing them live in front of an audience for the first time. Believe it or not, this band sounded great and we never, ever had a practice. The guys were comfortable on stage and trusted my ability to improvise appropriate guitar and vocals on the spot. I trusted them also by the end of the first set so it went well for maybe 10-20 gigs. Then I moved away and got a real job.
Soon after moving I hooked up with some local band and started gigging. These guys approach was highly structured to the point of being a 'copy clone' band. I had never taken this approach before as the bands I was in previously were never concerned with doing exact copies of recorded music. I enjoyed this but I was never very good at cloning other guitar players solos, yeah sure the main feel and envelope of the solo but there was always too much ME in the way. I still enjoyed this but the format was too rigid, in the past I would have had solos of indeterminate length, where some cue I gave would return everything back to a known reference pont. To me this was way better than (Play exactly what is on the record). So I eventually quit. Now I have a great high paying job that I love but only play for fun, so If I am at a party and people want me to play somthing, unless I like it and want to play it I don't. It is a pretty cool feeling. Plus I don't have to learn the crap they play on the radio, very little of which I actually like.

[EricV]

Hey there Bash,

I agree here. You know, one of my first teachers was in a Top40 Band, and I really admired that he was playing out 2-3 times a week, in front of several hundred people ( ok, I guess it´s obvious that there wasn´t much going on in the music scene i that town back then ).
It really looked like fun, and I was thinking "Man, I wouldn´t mind doing that someday". Of course it didn´t look as cool as being in a rock band playing original stuff, but I guess even back then I figured that playing in a Top40 band can be fun too and also... it was a rather realistic goal to reach, as opposed to the goal of becoming a megastar selling millions of albums.
Anyway, I went my way, practised and worked on myself, played in some rockbands, then I got a job in a Top40 band. I really did like it, cuz... it meant at least one show per week and therefore, some kind of a regular income.
I later quit and went to North Hollywood to attend the GIT. I then lost touch with that teacher of mine.
When I met him again a few years later, he had changed. He wasn´t happy anymore. I mean, he was still playing a bunch of gigs and some of them were in front of rather big crowds.
But he seemed to have problems with the integrity thing. He just didn´t dig playing stuff by Britney Spears and that kinda stuff ( as I said, Top40 ).
He was like "Man, I hate it, it´s pretty much disgusting. I need a few beers before I can walk up on that stage, it makes me sick"

And you know what ? I was thinking "Dude, do you know what you´re saying ?" Because... I mean, sure we all wanna play the stuff we really love and enjoy listening to.
But I did start out to play music, and it to me is something special to get paid for doing so. And I simply think that something´s out of perspective if someone is disgusted by playing a certain type of music while getting paid and having a regular amount of shows.

I mean, sure there are things that might make you go "Uhhh... I dunnom this is not really what I wanted". I guess if you´re in a band where you´re performing with full playback or something.
But it still is entertainment.

So what I learned is that, whenever I feel kinda sickened by a job, by the music I have to play ( i.e. with those "hired gun" jobs ), I always try to stop for a sec and remember what my intention is.
I mean, there was a time when I was playing with some pop acts, and I guess the "musicians police" ( the guys with the crossed arms in front of their chest, right there in the first row or over at the sound booth ) would consider those crap, or might mumble something about integrity.
But you know what ? Even though it might not be my favorite music, it still is fun to be on stage, to play for people, and I often learn something out of it. And on top of it, it helps me to pay my bills. And that enables me to set aside time to work on the music I wanna work on, like my instrumental stuff.
These days, I teach more and I seldomly play in pop-bands or as a "hired gun" anymore, but I look back at that time, I see it as a time full of experiences and shows, and I really can´t rmember being disgusted or whatever.
And I hope I´ll never feel that way about anything I´m doing music-wise.
Eric

[EricV]

Oh yeah, professional attitude... that´s another thing.
You´re absolutely right, it really helps to get jobs, and it also helps yourself to have more fun, be better prepared etc.

One part of the professional thing is the general attitude.
Imagine you´re being hired to play on some wedding. The customer gives you a list of songs he wants you to play, you have to dress in a tight tuxedo, and you also have some people for "them elder folks" to dance to.
This might not be as enjoyable as playing your own songs or rocking out on stage, but... you still are getting paid for playing music, and it still is an experience.
And if you get there and you´re absolutely not happy... and you show it, making an unhappy face, obviously being "disgusted" by playing "All I Have To Do Is Dream" or "If Tomorrow Never Comes", you might just ruin the day for the people who are paying you. Most likely you could care less about whether they´re gonna hire you again... but imagine YOU are getting married, and YOU hire someone to play something that is enjoyable for the people at your wedding, and that band, those musicians show up and look as if they´re walking down death row. Standing on stage, looking as if they´d rather be someplace else the whole night through.
I´d hate to see that, and it´d spoil the event a bit for sure.
That is why, at those occasions, I tried to enjoy playing too... cuz it matters to some people. And if I´d hate it so much, it´d be better to quit and do something else.
Eric

[EricV]

Hey James,

This:

I used to play music as my sole means of income, it paid for my college education, really got my attention.
I mean, wasn´t that a great feel ? To be able to pay something like your education by playing ?
I mean, to me that concept sometimes still is mind-boggling.
My dad used to give me a tough time about my intentions to become a musician. He said I´d never get anywhere and would never be able to pay my bills.
Then, the third show I ever played, I was paid for the first time. About $50. I was proud, and I figured "Ok, I´ll show him... I CAN make money with this if I need to. This will prove that I am on my way".
He looked at the crumbled dollar bills I showed him, looked at me and said "And you wanna live of $50 for the rest of your life ?"

Man, I was crushed. But later I managed to earn enough to make a living, and I am today, too. And whenever I take some time to sit back and think about that, it´s a good feeling.
Eric

[szulc]

The times I spent traveling across the mid west playing music were really good (most of the time) and it was a good feeling to finish college with my Engineering Degree and know that my musical endeavors made it possible.
I have this thing about playing music for the right reasons.
The people I played with had unrealistic expectations about where this was taking them. I always knew I wanted to be an engineer when I finally grew up, they wanted to be 'Rock Stars'.
They felt my heart wasn't in it because I wanted to have a regular job someday.
I just wantd to play clubs and parties and have fun, maybe off set the cost of all the toys I had.
I never did it to get laid or because it was cool, I was born to play and sing, and there was all this emotion in me that needed to come out. My father played (Drums Sax and voice) on weekend gigs up until I was 13 (around 1974) or so and he really enjoyed it. They played 'old people ' music and a few of the newer country and pop rock tunes. When we had family reunions my father, grandfather and I would play, I would have to play their music but it was still music and emotional.
I play because I have too and need to to keep me sane.
I miss playing live shows but it would be hard to do without giving up my job. So , now I just write and record every once and a while I'll play with some friends. I have been avoiding this for several years because it temps me to smoke weed ( this is incompatable with my job) or drink excessively.

The other thing is, my father gave me an appreciation for improvised music. I wanted to play music where there was a lot of room to be creative. Now days most of the music you hear is rigidly structured (except maybe PHISH and Dave Matthews and a few others like that).
In fact the pinnicle of improvised music was in the late 60's with 'Cream', ' Band of Gypsys', 'Grand Funk', 'Rare Earth' and 'The Allman Brothers'.
The whole thing was groove based with a lot of flexability, ever since the late 70's the production of pop rock was rigid and no-longer flexable. I really prefer to play music where the entire band can improvise 'within some framework' but do it in such a way that the live audience can dance and enjoy it. Today the closest thing is techno dance club music which is being 'performed' live using tools like 'ACID PRO'. This is not quite the same as playing live but it is unique and sort of 'improvised'.
Maybe I need to write some groove based techno music but use real instruments ( at least real guitar).

[RockSuperstar]

--- quote--------

The people I played with had unrealistic expectations about where this was taking them. I always knew I wanted to be an engineer when I finally grew up, they wanted to be 'Rock Stars'.
They felt my heart wasn't in it because I wanted to have a regular job someday.
I just wantd to play clubs and parties and have fun, maybe off set the cost of all the toys I had.

---------------

Man, I totally get that. right now I'm really happy playing old **** rock music in bars to an apporeciative audience while still managing to get my head down and study.

Many of my friends tie themselves up in knots trying to "make it" as rockstars. I see then drop outta school, take crappy jobs flipping burgers and do a whole host of silly actiuvities in the name of thier art.

Next year i will have finished school (hopefully with my degree) and have something to fall back on. Playing in bars has got me experience of playing live and has meant that I can afford a few nice guitars and a good amp.
If I wanted to I could have a go doing original songs, and i reckon i'd stand a good chance with all the experience I've gained by "selling out" and "conforming" as some accuse me of.

At the end of the day, it doesnt matter if you play AC/DC covers in bars on a saturday night. I do it because I play the music I like and I get to make the audience smile. What more do you need?

[EricV]

Wow... this is really quite interesting...

The people I played with had unrealistic expectations about where this was taking them.
Just like RockSuperstar, I know exactly what you mean, I saw that happen a bunch of times.
Just like 2 years ago, I got in touch with an old friend of mine, whom I had always considered a really good guitarist and songwriter. He had quit music for a while, and I asked whether we should make up a project.
He was quite enthusiastic, but soon he was talking about record deals, big shows and all that... while not investing any work. And without thinking about all the steps necessary between making up a band r project and really getting somewhere.
I tried to remind him of that, but it didn´t work, so I quit the whole thing, which had been rather frustrating for me anyway towards the end.
( Not to mention that he ripped me off after I quit the whole thing ).

I met quite a few people who were like "Yeah, we´re a band, and we´re gonna hit it big time and will live from all the money we´re gonna earn. No big expectations, we´re just gonna BUILD A HOUSE WITH A SMALL STUDIO"
Nothing wrong about being enthusiastic and motivated, but it´s kinda sad to see those people hitting "The hard concrete floor of reality" soon... when they notice that it a) takes a LOT of work and dedication and b) in most cases a band ( playing original music ) usually is not enough to live from.

I realized pretty soon that if I wanna live from music, pay the bills with it, I would need to do more than just write some songs and play them ( not only because it´s instrumental music ).
I knew that I would have to do many different things to be able to pay the bills... teaching, "band coaching", studio jobs, workshops, songwriting for others, the "Hired gun thing".
Some of those jobs are not the most fun, but it still is part of the whole thing... making my way as a musician, playing music all day long, making a living.
And I knew that from early on, so I didn´t really need to adjust too much, I just worked into that direction.

And I never really accepted another perspective. I didn´t have musicians in my family ( my grandpa used to play a bit of drums in his youth, but quit soon and then worked in a big factory until retirement ). But I knew ever since I first picked up a guitar that music was what I wanted to do, and that that would keep my happy. That that was my THING.

It´s sometimes quite unstable, you sometimes don´t really know what you´re gonna pay your food with next month, but I still don´t regret my decisions or think about taking a different path.
And I don´t need to support a family yet, so I don´t have to worry about that neither.

To get back to the whole "selling out"-issue...
Some students of mine, or other musicians I meet are usually reacting a bit weird when I tell them about certain jobs ( studio- or live jobs with pop-bands, or the Top40-thing I used to do ).
I think they think along the lines of "selling-out", but I think they also can see that I am content doing all that, and that I still have the time and resources to work on my own music, too.
And so I don´t really have a problem with people thinking that way.
Maybe I need to write some groove based techno music but use real instruments ( at least real guitar).

Makes me think of "Engines Of Creation"... :)
Eric

[EricV]

Oh, and one more thing... we had that mentioned in the forums before, but it fits well...

As you might know, many popular ( and I am thinking "popular in the guitarists scene" ) guitarists joined pop-acts for a while...

Greg Howe toured with N´Sync, Enrique Iglesias and even played some shows with Jacko. Andy Timmons toured with Olivia Newton-John, GIT-instructor Joy Basu gigged with J-Lo and Jessica Simpson.
A lot of people ( the "musicians police" again ) made fun of that, pretty much laughed about it.
To me, it´s great that they did that. Because, first of all, it sure helped them financially. Also, I think it must be really cool that they got to play in front of many thousand people, with a great backing band ( the backing bands of those kinda artists usually really are great ). To get some exposure even though they didn´t play their "own" music in those ampitheatres. It sure must be a great experience.
So I don´t blame them, and if I ever was offered such a job, I´d take it in a heartbeat.
Eric

[The Bash]

Hey, lots of good stuff here. I always dug those aforementioned Morse Columns and Vai’s Alien Love Secrets and Mick Goodrick’s Musical Metaphysics and all that kinna stuff that to me’s important and can’t be simply address by saying put your finger here.

With James I totally know what you mean with the pure cover band thing. I grew up without any guitarist in the immediate area (before I could drive) so I spent a lot of time jamming with myself over by recording backing tracks onto a small cheesy tape recorder. I even got high tech by snatching my brothers and pretty soon was making theses very low budget horrendous sounding 2 track to even 4 track recordings. I didn’t really have anyone to show me what I was doing so I’d figure what I could out of a tune solo wise and make up the rest. When I first got with other players I was very much in that Classic Power Trio mindset (long solos and on the spot band improve). We played a lot of parties in college and by the end of the night 99% of the crowd was so drunk or stoned you could basically wing the whole set. We’d play a tune or two then just say 1234 go and make something up on the spot. Then after college I started gigging 6 nights a week with a total top 40 band (Inxs, Roxxette, kinna stuff) but they did some ZZ top and stuff as well. I could pretty much do what I wanted solo wise but the song structure was set in stone. This was good experience as it was the exact opposite as I was used to. This was kinna like Underkill where before It was Self Indulgent Overkill. Plus this was my first steady regular paycheck from performing gig. Of Course like Eric, my parents were like, “When you gonna have time to look for a job.” Anyway after a few Rock Bands and fill in gigs and etc. I put together what I’ll always view as my Band. We were together 8 yrs and was the ideal gig for me (played what I wanted within reason since were doing clubs, played some of my originals, etc.) and since it was 3 piece with stand up singer left a lot of room for me playing wise. Yea, we’d do the cue thing on some tunes like Stanglehold or Comfortably Numb with extended solo’s or toss stuff like Freebird solo in at the end of tunes. Structured but free. I like how James described it as the envelope of the song as that’s exactly how I play. Like Comfortably Numb’s not the time to show off your tapping or sweep picking skills and something like Tesla’s “Coming at ya Live” not the time to be tastefull. The Song Dictates the working area.

As far as the Professional Attitude (I site Steve Morse as my biggest Influence on this.)
We once hadda gig in College Town during the Summer a Town Hard on out of town Bands.
We Played for (counting the people working the bar) a whopping total of 15 ppl tops all night. A lot of the Night it was just the Bar Help. We’ll we put on a complete show anyway people or not. Hey was a big roomy elevated Stage (better than jumping up and down on your bed playing air guitar into a mirror). Anyway one dude was there then left then came back with another then he left come back with another. I was like that’s kinna weird. Well as it turned out he was a Dejay of the top Rock Station there and went to get the Guy who works promotion wise with bands who went get the Guy who was booking Dio to play there in a couple months. So to make a long ramble short we opened for for Dio (and about 1000 ppl). I knew none of this until a month latter when the guy called and as he basically put it: You guys sound good but almost every band they put in there sounds good. But I had never in my life seen a band entertain 5 people that way and the owner (who was there all night) says they did it from the very start to very finish. So in a funky rounabout kinna way thanks to Steve Morse for instilling in my teenage mind (via his columns in GFPM) the virtues of professionalism I got to open for another one of my musical heroes.
Ok that was my Cinderella Rock Star Story for the Day, now I gotta go scoop sum dog doo-doo outta the yard.

NP-Frank Zappa “Hot Rats”

[EricV]

Hey Bash...

You´re right... Steve´s columns feature so much important information. I recently was sent a copy of "Open Ears... a journey through life with guitar in my hand", and to me that one would be an essential book to read for musicians.
I mean, he threw in some advice on playing the guitar, practising, improvising etc. But the general stuff he was talking about... he really points out important stuff one should know once he / she gets into the "biz" an ddeals with people.
Just like you, I learned a lot from those columns, and later, from talking to Steve.
Stuff like:
- Having a positive, motivating attitude towards jobs. If I remember right, his example was something like he was playing a show with some fellow "cats", and they hardly had enough time to rehearse, and had never played together before.
So Steve was feeling a bit weird about it and wasn´t sure whether it´d work out. But he still smiled, trusted in those musicians and made them feel good during rehearsals ( as opposed standing there saying "OMG, I think we´re gonna blow it, it will suck, I am SO worried" )
I took that advice and always try to remember it. I mean, you gotta be realistic, but it doesn´t help to be so negative. It can make a big difference if you give your colleagues a good feel about a difficult job. I could give examples of occasions where I applied this in real life, but it would be a long post ( it will be one anyway ).
- Or how to bring over something to your bandmates. Steve has some kind of a rule where, if he has to say something which is kinda negative, he tries to say something motivating to start with. ( "Hey Dave, the bass solo was awesome, really good. Now... could you play that once more, in tune this time ?" )
- How to make all people involved in a show ( technicians, sound engineer, promoters etc. ) feel good. He says that he tries to pay attention to all of them and tries to really cooperate, to make the job easier for everyone involved.
There´s way more stuff in those columns that I consider important advice, and much of that helped me throughout the years.
He really is a gentleman, and you won´t find a lot of instructional books with that kinda advice, although to me, it´s just as important as the "Over chord x you can play scale y" type deal.

I had several gigs like the ones you mentioned, playing in front of just a few people ( or how about my famous story of when I played in that redneck sport bar with an 80s style hair band ? Man, once the song stopped you could hear the crickets chirp outside ! ). And I always tried to not let that make me change my attitude or performance... to always try to give my best.
Not only because there might be someone "important" in the small crowd like the guy you played for, but to me, it always was...
"1. Even if there are like 10 guys in there, they must likely paid to get in there, so they deserve to get a good show.
2. If I give 100%, those 10 people might leave after the show and might come back for another one, or tell people that even though it was a small gig, the band really played hard and rocked on stage... if I just stand up there and go "Screw this" and jam on a Lydian vamp for 50 minutes, I might disappoint even those 10 people, and they never might come back for another show"

Of course, it might be easier to feed back from a huge crowd, to just go wild... when I play bigger gigs with some act, it´s just fun to walk out on stage with several hundred or even thousand people out there.
But I really try to give my best even for the smallest crowd, and i really never thought of changing that.
Eric

[jchalas]

Hey Eric... what's a "Shakira-strat" look like?? :p I agree, she did do a good job on the Aerosmith "Dude Looks Like a Lady" tune at the induction. Even Thom likes her singing (and, as you know, that says a LOT). :D
Janice

N.P. "Black Flame", Renaissance

[EricV]

Hey Janice...

good to hear from you... =)
A Shakira-Strat ? Well, I kinda made that up, cuz to me, it´s very much possible that Fender will release that one one of these days...
It would either have an expensive airbrush-paintjob of Shakira, which would raise the prize of the $600 guitar to about $2000 or so, I guess.
WELL, the other possibility might be a Strat with softer shapes ( rounder, y´know ), clad in leather, with a blonde-stained curly maple top ( referring to the hairdo... ), and a very easy going floating trem-system ( you know her singing )... around the pickups there´ll be a lot of mascara, I guess
I better stop before I get this thread to be rated X or something...
Hope you guys are doing well
Eric

NP: John Petrucci / Jordan Rudess- An evening with,...

[The Bash]

thought I was the only one ever heard that song :)
Annie Haslam's gotta great voice.

NP- Rennissance-"Tales of a 1001 Nights"
(Not ta be a copycat, but Black Flame sounded like a great idea)

[The Bash]

Hey Eric, what kinna knobs it gonna have
silicon, I suppose :)

[Guni]

Originally posted by The Bash
Hey Eric, what kinna knobs it gonna have
silicon, I suppose :) LOL :D

[The Bash]

Hey Eric, I really dug the You Never Called article. It’s defiantly an important subject that a number of musicians are blind to. I think a lot of people are afraid of being perceived or perceiving themselves as cynical, thus you seldom see it flashed so brightly in your face as you do the million dollar Jag we all drive. Well, I think anyone’s who’s not cynical is in for a fall. I don’t think that means you gotta hate music and everything that goes with it, but you gotta realise the odds aren’t stacked in your favor. So the odds ain’t in my favor, so what. The fact one knows this ahead of time and operates within these confines may actually lead to ones success. Not success in terms of fame or riches, rather success in terms of self preservation and mental and emotional stability.
I call myself a optimistic pessimist. What first appears an oxymoron makes sense to me: I simply try to be as happy as possible within the confines of the situation. Hey, I’ll take riches and all that but I certainly ain’t got my eyes set on em. I just realize that’ll never happen and without all that crap in the way bogging me down, I can focus on being as happy as possible with what I’ve got. And no, I’m not perfect at this (I doubt anyone is) but that’s my goal as a human being to become as perfect as humanely possible in that area. Which includes more than just music, but everything you do effects who you are and were musicians so all we are goes into what we do.
Anyway maybe it’s cause I own like 75 Frank Zappa Cds that I’mma big fan of cynical. I think it’s healthy. It’s hatred that’s destructive. And finally apathy that’s the killing blow.
So maybe I’m making more out of your subject than most might but a do see a potential direct correlation between your subject matter and full blown apathy, for anyone currently residing in mental utopia. The world is out there and it ain’t always a nice place. Thus, Atlas shrugs.
Course, we could all form a secret remote colony removed from the world and the prying evil practices of the music industry and play together in perfect musical harmony.
Who is John Galt?
Better yet, where is he…

[Danster]

Originally posted by The Bash
The world is out there and it ain’t always a nice place. Thus, Atlas shrugs.This ain't exactly music-related, but could you explain the "Atlas shrugs" phrase? I know of the book. I even read most of it, but the damn thing was so long...:o Anyhoo, not having read it as an assignment or anything, I didn't have the luxury of discussing it with a knowledgeable teacher or bright students.

Thanks for aiding the culturally illiterate! :D
Cheers,
Dan

[EricV]

Hey Eric, I really dug the You Never Called article. It’s defiantly an important subject that a number of musicians are blind to.

Hey Bash

Thanks, glad you like it. Yeah, I used to ignore that whole topic too, but then I was forced to deal with it... I mean, if you don´t, you´ll be screwed in no-time.


I don’t think that means you gotta hate music and everything that goes with it, but you gotta realise the odds aren’t stacked in your favor.

You´re right, it doesn´t have to mean that. I used to run around and go like "WOW" about the whole business, being all impressed and fascinated. Which is fun.
But I soon learned to be cynical and careful, instead of being over-enthusiastic. I got burned badly a few times, cuz I was talking to someone and he or she said something like "Hey, let´s do something together..." or something, and I was like "Yeah", being so happy.
Then it didn´t happen and I was crushed.
So these days, whenever some offer or great news or whatever comes in, I am careful, not taking it for granted. That way, I´m happy if it actually does happen, and I´m not too crushed if it doesnt.

I call myself a optimistic pessimist.
I kinda feel the same, but I´d still categorize myself as a realist. Ok, being in the music biz doesn´t look like being realistic, but still...
I am happy with what I am doing, I am optimistic that I´ll continue being a musician and that I still have a lot of things in front of me, that I´ll see a lot of new things.
At the same time, I don´t take everything for granted and I am rather careful.

You´re describing a very Morse-ish way of thinking there, I like that.

Anyway maybe it’s cause I own like 75 Frank Zappa Cds that I’mma big fan of cynical. I think it’s healthy. It’s hatred that’s destructive. And finally apathy that’s the killing blow.
Reminds me of an old Zappa-quote. "Some people say "Ignorance is bliss"... I disagree. Because of you´re ignorant, you can become a victim"... something like that...
It kinda applies here too...


So maybe I’m making more out of your subject than most might but a do see a potential direct correlation between your subject matter and full blown apathy, for anyone currently residing in mental utopia.
And it´s good that you´re making more out of the subject. Cuz the article was meant to make people think and reconsider stuff they have seen or read about.
It´s nearly impossible to write about all the stuff involved in the business side, so I tried to go for the general though instead... to make people be aware of what´s going on, and what they have to be prepare for. Food for thought, y´know.
That´s why I was hesitating about giving this one to ibreathe, after all the "Play"-articles.

Thanks and
warm regards
Eric

[Bongo Boy]

Originally posted by EricV
whoever wrote ILRR ( did Joan Jett write it ? ) at least gets a bunch of money, which is cool.

Just FYI the Joanjett lyrics, at the web site, are tagged as being authored by "J. Hooker/A. Merrill", neither of whom do I recognize.

[EricV]

Hey Bongo...

those might be the real names of Joan Jett or someone else... or the song was written by record company associates...
I think we talked about this songwriting thing before: it has been an "industry standard" for many record companies to have professional songwriters write songs for them. In places like Nashville, there are songwriting offices.

Or look at people like Diane Warren ( sp ? ). She writes bunches of songs and sells them to other artists or their companies ( she wrote for Whitney Houston, Aerosmith, Faith Hill... bunches of people )

Eric

[Bongo Boy]

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but a few months ago I saw a magazine at the local Blockbuster store featuring the lovely and talented Shakira sporting not a Strat, but a Les Paul. No kidding. Don't know if she's learning to play it, but I must say she looked quite nice in it.

[EricV]

Well, I saw one of her music videos, and she´s playing an acoustic guitar in that video.
Also, I recently saw some pictures from a recent Shakira-concert, and apparently, she´s playing some guitar throughout the show...
There was a pic of her with ( I think ) a Fender Jaguar... and she was fretting an Emin.

Who knows, maybe my next "player profile" will be about "Shakira´s 10 hottest shred-licks, Lick no.1: Eminor, strummed..." :)
Eric

[NorseWolf]

Sweet..I would love to see these chicks playing guitars...


And this thread has been going for hella...lol...cool

[The Bash]

Hey Bongo, I was actually gonna bring this thread back to life myself the other day but I ran outta time.
This is definalty one my favorite :)

P.S. I won't touch the hottest licks things Tipper Gore may be a watching :)

[EricV]

LOL, aaahhh, you noticed !!! :)

Anyway, one thing that comes to mind... sure, a lot of us will think "Gee, she can fret a chord or two and everyone makes a big deal about it..."
But... if anyone sees Shakira play a guitar, and feels motivated to try playing him/herself, it´s a good thing.
People like Shakira and bands like Blink 182 etc. are kind of the "heroes" of todays generation, and if they can cause people to pick up an instrument, it´s cool.
Eric

[The Bash]

A Lotta people kinna laugh when I say the Beatles were one of the biggest influnces on guitar of all time.
Sure the didn't shred, but the wrote a majority or the great songs on guitar. But more than that there inspired guys like Sting to actually wanna be musicians as well as thousands of others (myself inculded :)
You could proably make a good case for say a Bob Dylan who I'm sure inspired a lotta people to pick up a guitar and play.

[EricV]

I agree... people like Steve Morse, Jennifer Batten and many others that seeing and / or hearing the Beatles made them pick up the guitar.
And one other thing is that these days, for many young players, the guitar work on Beatles-, Cream-, Clapton-, Stones- etc. records might sound outdated.
I mean, a lot has happened both on the technique-side and on the recording / producing / gear-side.
I even sometimes hear younger players go "Dude, what´s the deal with that Hendrix-dude ? The guitar is out of tune, he ain´t fast..."
Many people are not aware that back then, those productions were state-of-the art, that many techniques hadn´t been "discovered" or made popular yet ( tapping, sweeps ), and that in general, the repertoire of guitarists looked way different.
Also, back then it was hard to get some really good distortion, or guitars with low action or extra-light strings. Locking trems weren´t around either...
But still, all those players had a huge impact, and influenced the guys that people listen to today.
And no, I haven´t been around in the late 60s either, but I read a lot about it, and listening to that stuff made it clear to me why those records had such a huge impact... simply imagine the guitar-scene in 1966 / 67... clean guitar-sounds, long solos pretty much only in blues-music, wang bars where used to get that surf-sound... and then HENDRIX hit the scene...

Sorry for rambling
Eric

[The Bash]

Exactly, I wan't born till 68. So I wasn't there to hear Purple Haze for the first time. But to imagine what it must have been like. I'mma avid fan of Music History so I can kinna see the history of roc n roll unfold and compare things to what was avaiable at the time. Like I waanna Hold Your Hand was actually pretty Darn heavy at the time. Or hearing You Really Got Me Ripping outta the speakers for the first time.

I remember seeing sum 100 greatest RR moments and Steve Morse was one of the guys they'd show making comments.
When they got to You Really Got Me they show steve all kicked back ripped out YRGM (Kink stlye with the power chords). He look just like a little kid. You could tell he really dug that riff.
I means here's a guy that can play stuff tons harder than that riff just digging it saying things like this is one the coolest guitar lriffs in history.

Yea gotta have respect to those that got ya to where your at/or give you the oppertunity to do what you do.
Hey I respect Chuck Berry ya gotta if you play Rock N Roll Guitar.
There's always a progession to things.

Think it Was I. Newton that said, "If I've seen Further than other men, It's because I've stood on the shoulders of Giants."

[Bongo Boy]

Originally posted by EricV
There was a pic of her with ( I think ) a Fender Jaguar... and she was fretting an Emin.

Who knows, maybe my next "player profile" will be about "Shakira´s 10 hottest shred-licks, Lick no.1: Eminor, strummed..." :)
...yeah okay, so Emi isn't all that tough ;), but can you look that good doing it?

Anyway, as far as 'being there' when something new hits the scene, I'm sure everyone knows what that's like. It will always be something different depending on the age. I was in a large Detroit department store with my buddy when Are You Experienced had been on the shelves for about a week. His mom drove us home with our new prize, and we could both have killed her for driving the speed limit. We knew this was going to be something special.

Imagine growing up hearing Roy Orbison, Gene Pitney, Sam the Sham & the Pharoahs and even Buddy Holly routinely on the radio...and Motown by the pound (CKLW...Radio Eight O). Sure, the Beatles happened and thank goodness The Kinks happened...but when we put Are You Experienced? on the turntable, life as we knew had changed forever. Eventually the horrible, pyromaniacal fate of those Donovan albums was sealed.