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Guni
09-03-2002, 06:18 PM
Hi all,

I just came up with this little exercise of working on major triads to create a Lydian sound. Actually, it's an adaption of what was discussed in the thread about Larry Carlton.

Our chord is Gmaj7

G major triad over Gmaj7: 1 3 5
A major triad over Gmaj7: 9 #11 13

Note that these 2 triads include 6 out of 7 notes of the Lydian scale (maj7th is in the chord itself).

The idea: 4 notes (octave) G major triad down - up a step - 3 notes A major triad up - and a passing note (approach note) to resolve to a note of the G major triad.

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/posts/triads_lyd1.gif

Then we start the pattern again to create a longer line:

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/posts/triads_lyd2.gif

Try to apply this lick in different (all :D ) positions and change keys.

Guni

Guni
09-03-2002, 07:20 PM
And of course you can use this with other modes derived from D major.

Example: E Dorian

G major triad over Em7: b3 5 b7
A major triad over Em7: 11 13 1

Guni

jesus
09-04-2002, 08:26 AM
Cool Guni, it remains me to one of the most common used lydian slash chord, in the key of Gmaj7 is
A/G, I think, if I remember well, it is one of the chord shape used in Satriani's Flying in a blue dream, but probably in another key. Despite I know the slash chord I've never tried to use the G and A triads soloing over a G lydian context, it's curious because it seem so obvious, but many times ypu know some aspect of one thing and never go more in depth about it.

Anyway, good idea and gretings

The Bash
09-04-2002, 09:55 AM
Thanks for the Ex.
Iíve been playing with that idea for few days now, so this will help a lot. It actually sounds like music, I sounded more like someone practicing Arpeggios.

Could you also look at it as a minor triad a half-step down.
In this case F#m (since itís contains the #11 as well)
F# minor could viewed as 13 1 3 of A major chord so looking at it
this way might be completely stupid. It just seems mentally thereís more options to think up a Whole from G play with an A major triad or drop back a half play around with a F#m triad.
Since really studying the Carlton stuff (Kid, Room 335, Donít Take Me, Donít Give it up etc.)
I found thinking in simple triads more useful instead of CM7 thinking C and Em simple triads.
They just seem to make more sense in a Rock context thinking that way. Or at least more musical in the hands of a jazz idiot like me :)

This is what I see.
Iím assuming since they contain #11 they fulfill the purpose.
Major Triad up a whole: 9 #11 13
Minor triad down a half : 7 9 #11
Minor 7 down a half : 7 9 #11 13
(I donít like the m7 as well to many notes. For me anyway :) sounds like an Ex. )
Minor tri-tone away: #11 13 1

NP-Manuel Barrueco- Villa-Lobos Etudes

jesus
09-04-2002, 01:21 PM
Hi, the use of triads in soloing is an interesting topic to me. Indeed I don't use it a lot because I'm probably not used to think in triads, just in scales. I think Larry Carlton is a master in improvising or soloing with triads in a very melodically way. One quite interesting thing with this topics is the superimposition of different triads over a chord sequence, for me it's rather difficult to dealing with, to thinking in triads and how superimpose them. So, I would like to receive suggestions on how to improve this subject, it could be also a good idea to collect here ideas and experience of other people on this technique.

Jesus :)

Guni
09-04-2002, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by The Bash Could you also look at it as a minor triad a half-step down.Yeah sure. As a general rule all mode related triads will sound good. The strongest effect is created by using and combining major triads. Say we add the third major triad to our lick, ie D major triad. D, G and A include all the notes of the scale and this will give you the strongest sound.

I recommend testing all triads and pick your favourites. Probably, for G Lydian it will be A major triad. But give it a try and experiment.
I found thinking in simple triads more useful instead of CM7 thinking C and Em simple triads.
They just seem to make more sense in a Rock context thinking that way. Or at least more musical in the hands of a jazz idiot like me :) I hear ya - same with me. I think this is a personal preference and it's good to see it as such. If you like an approach stick to it and continue with it .......

Guni
09-04-2002, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by jesus
One quite interesting thing with this topics is the superimposition of different triads over a chord sequence, for me it's rather difficult to dealing with, to thinking in triads and how superimpose them. So, I would like to receive suggestions on how to improve this subject, it could be also a good idea to collect here ideas and experience of other people on this technique.Good point jesus.

I don't actually think in notes - so I wouldn't think A major triad when I wanna play G Lydian. I think in terms of intervals on the guitar.

Everything new I learn I apply to something I already know. Most of the time for me it's the pentatonic. You are mentioning scales so this might be your 'anchor'.

Pick a G Lydian position on the guitar and look for where the #11s are. The #11 is the third of the major triad we wanna superimpose. Figure out the fingerings for the A major triad in this position. Now, practice including this pattern into your regular playing, switching between scale and let's call it 'Lydian triad'.

Then take the entire thing to a different key, say Bb lydian. Now, just move the pattern and improvise again.

I think you see where this is going too.

Hope that makes sense...

Guni