Recording Guitars

[DracWell]

Hi there.
I'm using a Pod Pro for recording all my guitar tracks. And for the rhythm guitars I record 4 guitars. 2 for left, 2 for right. Now my problem is this: the guitars doesn't sound tight enough.. the sound itself that is.. It's a bit messy. Not any distinct tones etc nor rhythms. The only way I can hear the actual rhtyhms is because the drumkick that plays the same rhythm... Any ideas? A friend told me to try and get a speaker for my setup and then mic that one up.. the sound should get tighter acording to him.

thanx in advance
-Mattias

[EricV]

Hi there...

I hope I am getting you right... you mean that once you overdub your guitars, those rhythm tracks kinda become mush-y, with the attack missing and everything ?
Well, getting a speaker for your setup ( are you gonna run an actual amp head or combo through it, or do you have a poweramp for your POD ? ) might help, but:
- try to cut back on the gain a bit. Too much gain in addition to several overdubs might take away the attack and kinda "blur it up".
- Try mixing a distorted or crunch guitar sound with a clean or even acoustic guitar sound. The clean / acoustic guitar will add a bunch of attack. In many rock and metal albums, they used that trick, sometimes editing those tracks so you couldn´t actually tell that there was an acoustic or clean guitar playing... you just noticed that there was a good amount of attack, making the tracks more distinctive...
- Cut back on effects if you used any... too much delay or reverb will "mush it up" too
- Experiment with some heavy EQ-ing... In the studio, I sometimes make rhythm overdubs with guitar sounds that sound all that good by themselves, but when added to other tracks, they really are audible and distinctive, making the sound fuller without taking away the attack...
Maybe one of these ideas might help
Warm regards
Eric

[DracWell]

Thanx =)

Well. I only use the Pod Pro.. Nothing more right now. The only FX on the guitar is a compressor (wich doesn't sound that good, but it works for now).. but I'll check that Gain thing out since I happen to be a real gain lover ;) The Gain is at max AND the distortion add-on to (you can ad that like a dist-pedal before the amp)... I'll try those one first before I blend in clean guitars etc.

Thanx alot! =)

[EricV]

Hi Drac

See, I love HiGain-sounds as much as many others. The thing is though, if you use too much of it, you lose attack and such things. So, in the studio, I cut back a bit on the gain.
Or, I mix a higain-sounds and a crunch or clean sound... that latter one adds the attack and definition which got lost because of all the gain.
If you try to mix those two sounds, you might find that it´s a great blend... and the distortion is still there, on one of the tracks.
Hope you´ll let us hear what you´re working on once it´s finished

Eric

[DracWell]

Sure thing =) It might take a while, or you'll hear the demo, probobly the later. Anyway thanx =) I fooled around with my pod to find a new guitar sound and the one I came up with doesn't sound that good alone, but it blends better with the soudn I'm trying to get. I mainly play along with Nevermore - Dead Heart In A Dead World and try to get that guitar sound.. So that little tip from you helped alot =)

I might end up needing to use one set of sounds for studio and another for live since live there's "only" two guitars and in the studio there's four.

[EricV]

I am glad I was able to help a bit.
Steve Morse´s guitar sound is unusual, too... it might sound odd by itself, but blends perfectly with other instruments... that´s why he dials in that sound. Lots of mids etc.
I know a bunch of players who have some awesome sounds going, with heavy EQing, lots of reverb and delay etc. Sounds great as long as you play an unaccompanied solo or a solo over some keyboard-chords... but once the rhythm guitar and bass come in, you can´t hear that lead guitar anymore...
Eric

[DracWell]

Yeah. That's why I and the other guitarist strive to have alot of mids in our leadsound to stick out more since we play pretty "mid-scooped"... metal that is ;P

[EricV]

Exactly...

See, when I play with Perpetuum Overdose, I really gotta adjust my sound a bit. After all, there´s another guitarist and a keyboarder.
The other guitarist is using a Marshall head and also has some delay and reverb added, so he´s got a kinda "wet", mean sound ( you know that Marshall sound ).
I am using either a 5150 or a Laney, which have different tonal characteristics, and I also use no effect but some chorus for clean stuff, so it blends really well. Even when both guitarists play the same chord or riff ( I usually tend to play chords in different areas of the neck, or using different inversions etc. ), you can always determine the two guitars.
It takes some experimentation, but it´s worth the effort. You´ll have a "bigger" bandsound... there´s no need if both guitarists play the exact same thing with the exact same sound with a bunch of effects... same goes for the keyboard.
With the Vandenberg-band, I don´t have to worry that much, since we´re a trio ( + sequencer sometimes ), so I can use a different sound.
Steve Morse uses different setups too... he uses different amps and setups for Deep Purple than he uses with the SMB.
Eric

[szulc]

I suggest using EQ only to help shape the the sound after it has been recorded. The trick is to use it subtractively to remove parts of one track that interferes with another.
Most people who play guitar use too much gain and effects, this can make your sound muddy. It is like a cupcake and gain and effects are the frosting, use too much and its alll frosting and no cake. If you have a recorder that allows it you should record everything dry and add the effects post production.

[EricV]

Exactly... I was one of the guys who used way too many effects and stuff ( as evidenced in my "Beat It" Solo... someone recently complained about the amount of reverb and delay... I agree, but I always used sounds like that back then ).
I had this huge rack ful of stuff... Intellifex, Q2, H3000... it was like "Wow, listen to this... a chorus with 8 voices, a ducking delay plus a backwards reverb... wow" Guess what ? Sounded great in the living room, sounded horrible on stage.
And when I went into the studio with a good engineer and a good producer, they made me turn all that off and play without any effects and with less gain....
I cut out most of that by now. For lead guitar, all I might add in the studio is some reverb. Clean, a chorus. And when I leave my rack at home, all I take is that chorus pedal and a delay ( which I use for actual delay-"effects" exclusively, meaning stuff like a "Brighton Rock"-style solo-section or a "The Edge"-style clean guitar with some delay added )
In the beginning, you tend to use way too many effects, just because it´s fun and might sound great to you ( especially since even low-prized effects sound very good these days ). Later, you might hear the "whole picture" and notice that maybe that extremly "wet" sound ( 8 voice-chorus, hall reverb, delay with at least 5 repeats plus some EQ-ing ) might not be the best choice when playing live, with another guitarist and a keyboard
Eric