another question about stacks...

[ToLiveIsToDie]

with a stack... do pedals still need to be used...? I went to Guitar Center the other day... and played through a Marshall DSL full stack... and... it didnt sound "distorted" enough for me. It wasn't heavy at all. i went there expecting to be blown away... but wasn't... in fact i was disappointed. so woulda pedal be needed to do the job... i dont see the point of payin 1660 for a stack that would still need a pedal to do everything else.... can someone please clarify this for me.... thanks

[EricV]

The amount of gain depends on the amp itself, the head. Playing through a full stack will give you more volume and "punch".
Some amps have more distortion / gain, some have less. Some need to be turned way up ( like old plexis ) to really get you some higain-sounds ( poweramp-clipping ).
So if you want a heavier, more distorted sound, you should look into higain amps. If the DSL wasn´t higain enough, check out a Laney head or a Peavey 5150... those have gain galore.

At the same time, it is not uncommon to use an overdrive pedal to boost the sound of an amp. Zakk Wylde i.e. uses a Boss SD-1 to add some extra-gain, kind of like boosting the leadsound of the amp itself.

I personally do not like to play through full stacks. It might make sense once you are on a huge stage ( talking ampitheatre here ), but on any smaller stage, it will simply blow you away. I usually use a half stack ( 1 4X12 ) or maybe even a 2X12" ( for clubs ).
A few weeks ago, I played in a smaller venue, and I used a full stack. Sure, the optical effect was great, but it was actually pretty terrifying... I only turned the amp up to 2.3 ( of 10 ), everything else was way too loud. It was a small stage, so I stood in front of the stack most of the time. I really felt the physical effect, it was like standing in front of a huge hair-dryer.
And once I moved, all I heard was som erumbling noise... that´s why I prefer half stacks.

JFYI, all the huge walls of cabinets you see in rock concerts usually are NOT being used during the show. Kiss i.e. have a huge wall of 4X12"s. But those are not plugged in. The amps on top of them seem to be running... they are not. Only the LEDs are on. Behind those walls of cabinets, there are 2 or 3 regular half stacks which actually are making the sound.
This was the setup for their first reunion tour, and I believe it´s the same these days.
Same goes for Black Label Society, Van Halen...
It´s a great optical effect, but those guys know that it would be lethal to run that many amps and cabs on stage.
Eric
( I am wondering whether I´ll be able to answer a question with a short reply just once... :rolleyes: )

[ToLiveIsToDie]

i wasnt going to get a full stack... the dsl full stack was the only thing there... but on my GT2 pedal... i put the setting to British(Marshall like distortion)... and thought that the marshall head would have same or better distortion because through the pedal the "marshall" distortion is quite heavy. so thats what i dont get... if the pedal marshall distortion sounds that good... why doesnt the head itself sound like that?

And another thing about Peavey 5150... i was thinking of getting it... but there is no place that i can go that has it for me to test. i have to hear how it sounds before i put a grand plus on it... so i really would need to hear it. and laney amps... i never even seen one before.

[EricV]

Hi there...

Well, often those amp simulations sound better than the real amps... but only at low volume. I don´t know how long you fiddled around with the eq and the other controls on the Marshall head, but usually, at a higher volume, those amps should have plenty of gain. Once you get to poweramp clipping ( in most stores, they´ll kick you out if you turn i up that loud ) it should be sufficient.
Well... maybe you just are looking for a different sound...might be a good idea to check out a 5150, Laney or even a Rectifier.

Many amps sound crappy if you run them on room volume.
For home recording or practising at home, I´d prefer a POD or preamp or any amp simulator. But in the studio or live, where you can turn up your amp quite a bit, you´ll really notice how much power those things actually have. This is what they´re build for.
My Laney head does sound ok at room volume, but once I get to a gig and can turn it up some more, it really starts to sound good...

A student of mine has a 100 W Marshall head. At home, he uses a PowerSoak to lower the volume of the amp. That way, he can have poweramp clipping even at low volume.

About the 5150 and the Laney... last time I bought a 5150 I bought it used at a Mars Superstore. Do you have any of those near ya ? ( I think most of them are in the South ). And Laney... if you go to their website (http://www.laney.co.uk) there is a dealer locator which can tell you where you can get one in the state or town you are in.
Eric

[ToLiveIsToDie]

ok so what ur telling me is that at high volume... thats where the actual quality of the head comes out... so i basically didnt turn it up enough to get to the point where it actually sounds good... and another question... how are the Peavey Triple XXX series? i think the 5150 is kinda too expensive for me... is the Triple XXX near the quality of the 5150?

[RockSuperstar]

The triple X and the 5150 are two kinda different amps.

I reckon that most players will find them different anyway, but if I had to choose I'd have a 5150 for sheer distortion and a XXX for the versatility that comes with 3 channels, compared to the 5150's two.

After having tried both (and being able to vouch for the quality of peavey gear) I reckon that the XXX is good as an all round amp, but the 5150 really comes into its own when u want to crank up the gain and smash windows/wake the neigbours!!!!

[EricV]

Originally posted by ToLiveIsToDie
ok so what ur telling me is that at high volume... thats where the actual quality of the head comes out... so i basically didnt turn it up enough to get to the point where it actually sounds good...

Yes, that´s what I meant. I thought that the 5150 already sounds cool at low volume, but if you play it at room-level, it´s like choking the amp cuz it really is meant to be loud.
Many amps these days ( i.e. my Chrome-O-Zone, also amps like the Rivera Bonehead ) can be switched to a different output power, meaning that you i.e. switch it from like 60 Watt to 8 Watt or even less.
That way, you can turn up the amp without shaking the walls that much.
Again, for practising at home I like tools like the POD... plug in the headphones and you have the sound of a cranked, heavily distorted and compressed amp.
But it´s IMHO quite different compared to a real, actual tube amp turned up....
Eric

[RM II]

I agree with everything said previously. You really have to push tube amps to get the dirt out of them. Marshall amps are a bit different to work with IMO. I'm not saying they're bad, just different.

Something to keep in mind with tones you may hear on stage or even on a recording. Many of the bigger name guitarists probably take their equipment to somebody like Soldano and have them hot rod the head. At least that was popular in the '80s. So if you're looking to match a certain tone you've heard, you might have to invest in a good pedal or two along with the amp.

[EricV]

RM,

believe me, hot-rodding / modifying still is a regular thing these days, although there was a lot of talking about it in the 80s.
A lot of guys might have a certain amp with a certain brand name on stage, but inside, it´s a completely different amp, or heavily modified.
Eric

[Shogun]

I've been the proud owner of a Peavy 5150 for about 4 years now. I play in a technical hardcore band, so I need the extra gain. I find that the amp sounds completely different when the volume is turned up above about 3. This head has a ton of volume, and I've never actually had to turn it up above 6 for a show. My usual show volume is 5 (out of 10). If you're looking for something with a lot of gain, this is the head you're looking for. It's quite a bit cheaper than a Mesa and sounds almost as good. See if you can find a used one. I bought mine for $500 and I haven't had any problems with it outside of usual tube amp maintenance.

[EricV]

Thanks, Shogun...

There ya go, I rest my case :)
Eric

[Mesa-Maniacal]

I agree with Eric. My Dual Rec doesn't even come to life until you get the volume up there. Since most of the distortion is in the pre-amp section, you can get acceptible distortion at bedroom volumes. However, that power section needs to be working for the magic to happen. I am going to get a small practice amp one of these days.