My Boogie goes "boom"

[RockSuperstar]

Hey there guys, I'm back cause I've broken something!!!!


I had a rehearsal earlier today and my Dual rectifier stopped working. The sound kinda faded in and out then just died altogether, and the amp started emitting a loud squealing noise.

Does this sound as though the valves are shot to hell? If so, is it likely to be the preamp/ power valves or both? Are there any tests I can run to diagnose the fault?

If it is tubes, what are the best replacements (and are they easily fitted by a technical idiot?)

thanks in advance, I'm just panicking a little i think!!!!

[EricV]

Hey there...

my best advice would be to not switch it on again and bring it to a qualified tech ( guitar store ).
They can figure it out. Usually, when the tubes need to be replaced, you hear more noise, and the trebles go. Did you recently notice any changes about the sound of the amp ?
Once you notice that, it´s time to change the tubes. If you don´t and they really kinda "blow" they might damage something ( i.e. the sockets they´re plugged in to ) in the process.
A qualified tech would be your best choice. He can also tell you how to put in fresh tubes. That is something you can do yourself next time you´ll have to ( as long as you get matched ones... those you only slap in ). Everything else you gotta leave to a tech cuz it is absolutely dangerous to fiddle with tube amps... there are voltages way beyond 110 or 220 V in there.
Hope this helps
Eric

[RockSuperstar]

Thanks Eric!!

Now u mention it, I have noticed a loss of treble recently. The amp has been sounding really muggy over he past few days.

I'll tak it to the tech as soon as possible !

Many thanks

Chris

[EricV]

So, you might be lucky and it might just be the tubes. It´s done quickly then. Ask the tech to show you how to replace the tubes, and maybe order some matched spare-tubes that you keep at home or in the rehearsal room.
It is not always necessary to swap tubes every year ( many shops and companies recommend this ). I once bought a used Peavey Classic 50 Combo. The previous owner had used it for like 8 years prior to selling it, and it still had the original tubes in it. The dude played at least two shows a week, at high volumes.

And I used the amp for another 3 years without having to change the tubes. I then sold it to someone else, and I wouldnt be surprised to hear that he still has those tubes in there.

But once you notice that the tubes are breaking down ( i.e. you hear a strong loss of treble, and the tubes look weird, too... they´ll light up differently, glowing differently... in most cases ), get them replaced. Ask a tech to advise you. As mentioned before, if you wait until the tubes really get fried, they might damage something else inside the amp.

Oh, and about the loud squealing noise you hear... I once sold my old ADA MP-1. The dude who bought it called me up like a year later and said that the amp sounded weird recently, muddy, fuzzy, and that there´s a squealing noise... it was a tube-problem, too...

Let us know what the tech says, k ?
Eric

[RockSuperstar]

Will do!

You'll probably hear the screams of "HOW MUCH????' all the way over the atlantic when I get the bill! :p

[EricV]

LOL...
Eric

[RockSuperstar]

Hey guys!

Latest word from the engineer is that it's probably tubes. The only other thing he thinks it's likely to be is a fault in the channel switching relays.

I'll know for sure midway through the week.

Anyway, what kind of tubes are good to put in? Whats the alternatives to Actual Mesa ones? a friend of mine thinks I should put Fender groove tubes in...is this a good idea???

I dont really want to soup up the amp in any way, I just dont want to have to buy the official Mesa tubes (which I would need to invade Kuwait just to afford :p)

any help much appreciated!

[EricV]

Hi there...

Well, both the tubes and the relay ( depending on which is the cause of the problem ) should be easy to fix.
Regarding tubes... I usually either get them from Groove Tubes or Sovtek. They have good quality and good sound.
They´re sure are lots of outlets for tubes, all kinds of different companies selling rare stuff, but I usually go with stuff by Sovtek... easy to get, and Sovtek really has a name in that market.
Eric

[Mesa-Maniacal]

Originally posted by RockSuperstar
Hey there guys, I'm back cause I've broken something!!!!


I had a rehearsal earlier today and my Dual rectifier stopped working. The sound kinda faded in and out then just died altogether, and the amp started emitting a loud squealing noise.

Does this sound as though the valves are shot to hell? If so, is it likely to be the preamp/ power valves or both? Are there any tests I can run to diagnose the fault?

If it is tubes, what are the best replacements (and are they easily fitted by a technical idiot?)

thanks in advance, I'm just panicking a little i think!!!!

Since this is my first post on this forum, I must say this site kicks ASSS!!! So far I've really enjoyed EricV's posts. I am a big P.G. fan and I appreciate all of the tab.

Hey Superstar, my band and I were just getting ready to record some scratch tracks for our latest CD when my Dual Rec started acting wierd. The day before it was sounding great, but in the studio it started crackling on the clean channel. I checked every possible reason for this (cables, power supplies, etc). I was running a distortion pedal through the clean channel. I couldn't find the problem, but I also couldn't get rid of the noise. I decided to record using the modern channel. As soon as I switched the amp back on, I could see a flame through the grill and saw smoke coming out the back. Needless to say, a valve went bad and caused one of the sockets to burn up. Luckily it was still under warranty, but since I had a gig in three days, I had to pay my techs rush charge.

Lesson: if you see, smell, or hear something strange coming from your amp, shut it down and get it to a tech.

If it is your valves that are going bad, this would be an ideal time to experiment with some different brands: Sovtek, Svetlana, JJ Tesla, or Harma.

[Guni]

Hi Mesa and welcome to iBreathe!!!

I just listened to the samples at mp3.com. Quite some power coming through my stereo :D . Ya got a very nice powerful, rich sound on these tracks - cool.

Lesson: if you see, smell, or hear something strange coming from your amp, shut it down and get it to a tech.That's what I'm doing too. Long time ago I screwed around with an amp and learned my lesson.:rolleyes:

Guni

[EricV]

Hey Mesa,

cool, I am glad you like the TAB and stuff that I post at the forums. I usually wonder whether this is of interest for anyone =)

So you like PG too, huh ? Cool, so I can post even more PG-style licks ;)

I listened to the soundfiles of your band too... very cool, lots of power, I like it lots. "Vent" really is cool.
How did the New Mexico Showcase go ?

Warm regards
Eric

[RockSuperstar]

Right!

Just got the amp back from the engineer, who spent a week removing years of dust from its internal workings (the previous owner was a bedroom player and never used it much).

Se reckons the problem stemmed from a dusty valve, so I'm back to working order wih no problems since.

I still fancy changing the tubes, and am tempted to go for Groove tubes (cause i can get them cheap :D)

Is there much involved in fitting them? How many do i need? what sorta tonal differences are there compared to the stock boogie tubes?

Cheers!
Chris

[EricV]

Hi there, if you wanna replace your poweramp-tubes with Groove tubes, I´d recommend to get a full set of matched Groove tubes (" matched" is an option when you order, meaning that the tubes are fitting to each other, meant to work with each other )

The Dual Rectifier has 4x6L6 poweramp tubes, so get 4 matched 6L6 tubes from Groove Tubes. Usually, you just pop the whole set in there and it works ( AFAIK, the Rectifier also has a Bias switch which you can set to EL34´s, if you want a rougher, Marshall-type sound instead, by getting EL34 )
Use a napkin or paper towel to handle the tubes, don´t touch them with bare hands, cuz the grease of the skin might alter their durability. Each tube and socket do have some small "nooks", so you will know how to put them in.
You can also talk to an amptech or dealer to get more info about the process...
Eric

[Mesa-Maniacal]

Originally posted by EricV
Hey Mesa,

cool, I am glad you like the TAB and stuff that I post at the forums. I usually wonder whether this is of interest for anyone =)

So you like PG too, huh ? Cool, so I can post even more PG-style licks ;)

I listened to the soundfiles of your band too... very cool, lots of power, I like it lots. "Vent" really is cool.
How did the New Mexico Showcase go ?

Warm regards
Eric

Wow, thanks for the welcome! We didn't advance in the New Mexico showcase, but at least we didn't beat ourselves. The two bands that did advance can be heard at the following websites
http://www.systemicmetal.com
http://www.causticfukinlye.com
Eric, you would appreciate Systemic. Michael Ostrander is their guitarist and is definitely a shredder.

Regarding replacing tubes in a Boogie, Eric is right. If one tube is bad, you should replace the entire quartet. Groove Tubes does rate their tubes and all you have to do is ask for a quartet that will work in a Dual Rectifier. I've heard from experts (Myles Rose (http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/)) that it may be worthwhile installing hotter Groove Tubes than is specified. Boogies are fixed bias amplifiers, and they are biased colder than they probably should be. Another option to look into is installing KT88's. Bob from Eurotubes says the following:

KT88's in a Dual Rectifier?? Yes! KT88's in a DR... This is one way to make a DR into "Frankin Rectifier" The bias on the DR's is set very cool for 6L6's and EL34's but the average KT88 draws about double the natural plate current of the average 6L6 so when you run KT88's in a DR with the amp in the EL34 rectifier mode the bias comes up to where it should be and the bottom end gets VERY deep and strong along with a punch that is truly enormous!

Man, i could go on and on. In the near future, I will either have a variable bias pot installed in my Dual Rectumfrier or install the KT88's. So Superstar, have fun!

[RockSuperstar]

wow!

So many options!!!

I think for simplicity's sake I'll stick to the four matched Groove tubes. That was I lessen the chances of confusing myself, I'm still learning to work the damn amp ......soooo many controls to fiddle with!!

[Mesa-Maniacal]

Originally posted by RockSuperstar
wow!

So many options!!!

I think for simplicity's sake I'll stick to the four matched Groove tubes. That was I lessen the chances of confusing myself, I'm still learning to work the damn amp ......soooo many controls to fiddle with!!

Just remember that on Dual Rectifiers, the "mids" knob is your friend!!

http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/ed/madfire.gif

[RockSuperstar]

Hmmm, was meaning to ask someone about this actually!!

When I was trying to get a good tone, I found that the treble knob was working more like one of those "contour" knobs on old Marshalls than a conventional treble.

I found that the best way to use it was to juggle the treble and presence knobs together to get a sound...

How do Boogie work that's different from usual? Whats the best way to approach them?


(Thanks for advice up till now by the way, I've only had this amp for a few weeks and am discovering more every day!!!!)

[Mesa-Maniacal]

I'm looking at the manual right now. The order of the controls in regards to importance to the shape of the sound is:

gain>treble>mid>presence>bass

I just know from experience that scooping the EQ on a Dual Rec doesn't work...it basically sounds like crap. My mids are usually in the 12 to 2 o'clock range. I think a good amount of mids is what gives the Dual Rec its roar. I've seen many people knock the Dual Rec saying they can't get a good sound from it. This is not the case, but it does take work to find your sound. You usually need to do a lot of tweaking to get a good sound.

[LuisSavesTheDay]

so wht tubes did u end p using rocksuperstar? Whata think of em?