"Boutique" and Other Tube Amps

[Bongo Boy]

This is just amazing. I've begun looking at Mesa Engineering, Ashdown Engineerging, Laney, Matchless and many other guitar amps. It's just hilarious--15-30W tube amps that cost WAY more than a week for two in Maui (including 'recreational' activities).

So what I'm wondering is: has anyone actually COMPARED these products? Has anyone done any real blind listening tests to compare, say, a $1200 Fender ProTube to a $3500 Matchless?

I' not saying you can't hear the difference, I'm not saying any particular product isn't worth the extra money. I'm asking if anyone has done a relatively serious test (and by anyone I'm including magazines, etc.) to determine a LISTENING preference based on tone, etc., that would warrant spending a King's ransom for a tiny little box?

I guess I'm thinking, if I want "warmth", $2000 USD can buy a LOT of that--if you get my meaning. :D

[szulc]

No Matter what any test claims, the ultimate choice is left up to you. Go to guitar center or some other good music store with your guitar and toys (if any) plug in and compare. It is all about you and what you are looking for. The guy who is playing gigs with a cover band want a versitile amp with good clean and dirty tones, the blues guy just wants that singing tone, the grunge guy wants stompbox tone. I really like the tones that my mesa gets, but I also like the ada mp1 and my old fender twin, and my tubeman. If I was playing gigs in a cover band (like I was 15 years ago) the mesa or tubeman would get me 90% of the way there. The ADA would do it all but would need a noise gate.
Almost all of the boutique amps and even early marshalls are based on the old fender bassman design, there are exceptions.

Here are the questions you need to ask:
How loud do I want/need to play?
Depending on the answer to that, what type of vacuum tubes do I like for my power amp? ( 6V6 20W in Pairs, EL-84 25W in Pairs, 6881 35W in Pairs, 6L6 40W in Pairs, EL-34 50W in Pairs, 6550 50W in Pairs, KT-88 80W in Pairs) These are estimates based on class AB push-pull type circuits.

Do you want output tube distortion or is preamp distortion good enough?

If you don't want or need to be loud low wattage is good I have been impressed with tube amps as low as 1 watt ( Hughes and Kettner Cream Machine) and it was pretty load as well, but there was no clean volume.

Since the 12AX7 preamp tube is ubiquitous, you don't really have a choice here.

What type of gain structure do I like?
Low Gain (Clean like an old Black Face Fender)?
Medium Gain (Like an old VOX or Orange Amp or old 50w marshall)?
Cascaded Gain like a Boogie or one of the other modern amps?
The other thing you want to ask is what type of control over my tone and gain do I want?
For instance a channel switching amp might use some of the same tone controls for both clean and dirty?

I can safely say that 25 watts drives my 5150 4x12 cab plenty loud clean or dirty/ You are going to mike your rig anyway and probably run a line out to get that crispness, your sound man can mix these together and get a nice blend of cabinet and line.

[EricV]

Bongo,
I usually prefer stock amps ( sometimes slightly modified ), like my Laneys.
But my good friend Abi (http://www.abi-r.com) is using Diezel-tops. Those go for like... I dunno, I guess about $3000 and more.
They´re handbuilt in Bavaria. 4 channels, lots of options for the loops, separate volumes and EQ for each channel. Great clean- and crunch-sounds, gain to die for. Also, well-built, reliable.
But the most important thing is the tone. Sure, it also depends heavily on the player and the guitar, but that amp is a monster. And definitely worth the money, considering the options and the SOUND.
Compared to that, a few years ago I used stock amps by a well-known company. They came for a few hundred bucks. The sound wasn´t really that awesome ( had to do heavy EQ-ing and use a boost-pedal ), then one day it just stopped working. Had to shell out like $120 bucks to have it fixed, played one show with it, broke again. Sold it for $100 or so.

I am happy with my Laneys, and sometimes I don´t see why certain amps have such a high prize, but with some amps, I can understand it. ( Diezel, Rivera etc. )
As James said, it depends on you, what you want and expect from your amp. ( Think about the prizes on the vintage-market ! )
Eric