Chord Extensions

[Univibe]

I have been learning chord extensions for notes in the major scale with great results. (This approach has provided structure I was lacking in memorizing chords) The book I am using suggests using the extensions Maj7, Maj9, Maj11, Maj13 for the I, and IV positions, their minor equivalents for II, III, and VI, and Dominant versions for the V position. It also suggests diminished and minor7b5 for the VII position chords. So far so good. My question is, where does the Major 6 chord fit in? Can it too be used in the I and IV positions? Also, how about suspended chords? This is probably not a question that has a quick and easy response, but any input would be greatly appreciated.
I recently stumbled on this site and think it is excellent! Thanks

[Guni]

Hi Univibe,

I'm just listening to the mp3's at the url in your profile. Is this your band? Very, very nice.

Maj7, Maj9, Maj11, Maj13 for the I, and IV positions,For I: maj7, maj7 (9) (=maj9)

maj13 is wrong. This is where your major 6 chord comes in. Major 6 replaces the 7th. So instead of a maj7 you can play a maj6 chord.

Maj11 too is on the tricky side as a 4th (11th) in general replaces the major 3rd, thus it changes the quality of the chord from major to sus.

Summing up: on I and IV use maj7, maj6, maj79, maj69 .......

their minor equivalents for II, III, and VI, mmm ???
not complete but for a start:
II: IIm7 IIm79 IIm711
II: IIIm7 IIIm711 (no 9 on this one)
VI: same as II

and Dominant versions for the V position. V7 V79 V713 or any altered variations

It also suggests diminished and minor7b5 for the VII position chords. I'm not 100% with you here: VII is a m7b5 chord so are you looking for substitutions or alterations?

My question is, where does the Major 6 chord fit in? Can it too be used in the I and IV positions? again, yes

Also, how about suspended chords? Example of sus chord usage:

C G7sus4 G7 C

or in a kind of line cliche: D Dsus2 Dsus4 D

Laterz,

Guni

[Bongo Boy]

Just listened to 'strow' fr your site...yeah, I like it--kind of a favorite style for me, actually.

Gunharth...I think I get 90% of what you're saying, at least in the context of what I've learned from your Chord Scales series. All except your big "no" for M13 on I. Why not an okay for 13 (for both I and IV), and a no for 11 (in I)?

Looks like I'm missing something important. (Oh! I really left myself open on that one!)

[Univibe]

Hey Guni, thanks for the response and kind words, yes that's my band at the URL. I still have a question or two .

you wrote
------------------------------------------------------------------------
maj13 is wrong. This is where your major 6 chord comes in. Major 6 replaces the 7th. So instead of a maj7 you can play a maj6 chord.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

So does this mean because assuming C as root for example, A is both the 6th and the 13th note, so CMaj 6 and CMaj13 are essentially the same? (I can't find examples of Maj 13 or Maj11 chords in books anywhere, is this why?)


you wrote
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Summing up: on I and IV use maj7, maj6, maj79, maj69 .......
------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the maj79 and maj69 chords am I just adding a 9 note to these chords?

you wrote
------------------------------------------------------------------------
II: IIm7 IIm79 IIm711
II: IIIm7 IIIm711 (no 9 on this one)
VI: same as II
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Again am I just adding the 9 and 11 notes to m7 chords for these?


you wrote
------------------------------------------------------------------------
V7 V79 V713 or any altered variations
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why the 7? I thought the dominant chords were just like a bingo call "B13"

Sorry if these questions are pretty rudimentary. Can you perhaps point me in the direction of the Chord Scales series? I think that may answer some of my questions. I appreciate your time very much.

[Guni]

First off all lemme explain that there are two standard ways of writing chord symbols, which sometimes can cause confusion.

1) e.g B13. This stands for a dominant 7 chord with all available tensions. In theory this means B7(9 11 13). Now, we know that the 11th of a Dom7 chord is actually an avoid note as it clashes with the major 3rd of the chord. Thus, this chord symbol actually stands for B7(9 13). Writing chord symbols this way requires some theory knowledge.

2) The scond way is a more specific one to describe chords and its tensions. As mentioned above B13 would translate into B7(9 13)

re: maj6 - maj13

I say no to maj13 as this tension is actually not a tension but used as a chord tone. Tension 13 on a I and IV chord is equal to the maj6, e.g. in C it's the note A. Now this A is functioning as a chord tone by replacing the maj7. So your Cmaj7 chord (c e g b) changes to C6 (c e g a).

(In arranging tere is a technique where you can use both the 6th and the 7th but this shouldn't bother us for now.)

So does this mean because assuming C as root for example, A is both the 6th and the 13th note, so CMaj 6 and CMaj13 are essentially the same? (I can't find examples of Maj 13 or Maj11 chords in books anywhere, is this why?)

yep, essentially they are the same. The correct terminology is C6. And that's why you can't find examples of maj13.

Same with maj11 - there's no such thing. the 11th is equal to the 4th. This would change Cmaj7 (c e g b) to C maj7sus4 (c f g b), which is not a common chord btw.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Summing up: on I and IV use maj7, maj6, maj79, maj69 .......
------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the maj79 and maj69 chords am I just adding a 9 note to these chords?
yes, lemme just again point out that the correct chord sybols are:
Cmaj7, Cmaj79 but C6 and C69 (so no major when using the 6th)

You can find the chord scale articles in this thread: http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11

Laterz,

Guni

[Univibe]

The approach to writing chord symbol options is clearing up a lot for me. And I finally understand my inability to find examples of Maj 13 and Maj 11 chords! I will spend some time with the chord scale articles next. Thanks much! -U

[Guni]

You are welcome.

Yeah, have a look at the articles and lemme know if there's anything else.

cu,

Guni

[Bongo Boy]

Originally posted by Guni
Same with maj11 - there's no such thing. the 11th is equal to the 4th. This would change Cmaj7 (c e g b) to C maj7sus4 (c f g b), which is not a common chord btw.

...and is it fair to say this is not a common chord because 11 is an avoid note?

Thanks, BTW, for taking the time to add this info--it has really helped to tie together quite a bit of stuff. The explanation of the two standard notations is the kind of thing that's especially helpful in understanding why and how so much in music is implicit rather than explicit.

[Guni]

Originally posted by Bongo Boy
...and is it fair to say this is not a common chord because 11 is an avoid note?Yes. The reason being that you would get a tritone beween the b (maj7) and f (4th). The tritone is very unstable and thus it will not sound at all like a I or IV chord - more like a Dom7 (b and f being 3rd and 7th of G7).

On a I chord you might use a sus without the 7th, eg Csus4 (c f g), and resolve it back to C major triad. This is used quite a lot.

On the IV chord this is also no option as there is no perfect 4th for the IV chord. IV takes a #4 (in C the IV is F, the #4 is B - see, again the tritone f <-> b). So, using a sus4 on the IV would take you out of the key, which can / might / will sound wrong.

I just love all this theory stuff :D

Guni

[Bongo Boy]

...a tritone being any interval of exactly 3 whole tones--or is the definition broader than that?

[Danster]

Gunharth...I think I get 90% of what you're saying, at least in the context of what I've learned from your Chord Scales series.
Is the Chord Scales series on the website still? I can't find it.

[Bongo Boy]

Yup...I spent several minutes rooting around the site and I can't find them either...there doesn't seem to be any reasonable way to browse, search or find all articles. The search engine (Atomz) doesn't do it, for whatever reason.

I just printed these three volumes only about 3 weeks ago, I think, and I have no idea where to find them!

[Guni]

Originally posted by Bongo Boy
...a tritone being any interval of exactly 3 whole tones--or is the definition broader than that? Yes, that's it.
- the tritone also divides an octave in half
- sometimes it's refered to as 'augmented 4th' or 'diminished fifths'

Guni

[Guni]

I'm not very happy with the atomz search either. Maybe there's a way to optimize it otherwise I will look for a new solution.

I's not atomz fault though that it can't find the chord scale articles as it doesn't search the forum threads - just the online articles.

Up to now I didn't find the time to re-work the articles. Until this is done you can download the articles here:

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11

Laterz,

Guni