Band Politics: Habitual Lying Vocalist

[Wyldemetal84]

My band has been together "officially" a little over a year now. We've played close to about 20 gigs or so, and have gotten to professional status as we've now crossed the line from finding and paying our way into shows, to being asked to play shows, and get paid to do it.

The problem that lies within is our former vocalist. He's been with us since the start, quit about 3 times, for pointless to totally rediculous reasons. The last time however, he wasn't an *** about it. He gave us reasonable reasons, such as, no time, needed to take up second job to pay for college, religious reasons (yeah, he didn't think being in a metal/rock band would look good on a resume to try and become a minister... [or so he claims]). We were cool about all this, except for the fact that he was quitting the day before a show, which he knew about a good 2 weeks in advance (and yes, he didn't do the show. In fact, the booking agency lost about 200 dollars that night cause we were unable to play.). Time went on, and later that week, this guy I know comes into the local music store I work at to get drum heads, and tells me about how he's going to be practicing with our former singer. He said he felt I deserved to know, since the guy had lied, and said that he did it for financial and religous reasons, not to start up another band. To avoid any confrontation later on, the band and I decided to just let him be, and just stop communicating with him. We were fed up with all of his sh*t.

About 3 days ago, our former singer comes up to our drummer, and apologizes, then, comes up to me and apologizes. For all the stupid stuff he's done, the lying e.t.c. Promises he's going to change in hopes that none of this happens again. Normally we would've just flat out said no, cause we didn't want to have another repeat of what happened... but... we have a couple of big shows coming up in the next month that were booked for us months and months ago, and we're still in the process of trying to find a new lead vocalist. So, we decided to try and give him one last chance, but, that is already starting to look shady, being as that he's already starting to act like his typical "full of sh*t" self, and not having changed in the least bit.

The question that lies open for debate is: What are we supposed to do in looking out for the welfare of the band? We do have a couple of parties interested in trying out to fill his shoes, but we're afraid we won't have enough time to get ready for these up coming shows. We know we can't let the people who got us these shows down. We don't want to give ourselves a bad rep by playing only a half decent show w/ a new vocalist. But in the long run, we want to have a strong core band. Trustworthy and dependable, not thinking, "what is he going to try and pull next week?".

ANY comments or suggestions at all would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
~Ben

[LarryJ]

Tell that to him. You have to be blunt and serious, "look, we can't have you pulling out on us again, you have to commit to these shows, without fail. As a person and friend we expect that of you, and we really like having you as a singer, but if you gonna bail on us like that again..."...If you have to get a contract or something even, just make it painfully clear that you want him there, and that he has to behave. He has to know the situation, not just think you guys are pissed. If he's any type of a decent human being he will see where you're coming from and make the decision there, if not give him some time to think it over, but make him commit to at least whatever shows you have coming up or tell him forget it.

In the long run, start looking for another singer. Try to do some networking but keep it low key, if he finds out he might ditch you again or be angry.

[Cuno]

Giving advice on personal relationship stuff...scary!

If i where in your shoes i would probably try to use some other vocalist - if you have someone on turn that you'd like to be in your band. Maybe you need to cancel a few shows for rehersal, but at least the control is in your hands. It sounds to me that if you stick with your current vocalist, the damage could be a lot worse. Having a total jerk in a band is no good for anything anyway. He will probably do more damage even if he stays in the band.

Some thoughts... you know best what to do. Keep us updated!

[Koala]

I say youre absolutely wrong avoiding confrontation. Face him, tell him all this stuff and then he´ll finally quit for good. Im nt there and dont really know the situaton but i never wouldve taken him back. The first rule, for me is compromise.

[EricV]

Exactly. The lack of will to confront people is a huge problem that messes up a lot of bands... and relationships, collaborations etc.
I don´t think that there is anything wrong with telling him what you think. You have to consider what´s more important... not making him mad or risking the band, moving on tiptoes in order to not agrivate the singer.
MAYBE ( just something I have actually seen, but it doesnt have to apply in this case ) he doesn´t realize how you perceive his behaviour, doesn´t notice how people look at it or how it must look from the outside, you know ?
I have seen bands where some members did stuff they didnt consider evil or selfish, but a) they didn´t think about the effects of their actions and b) it was perceived completely different by their bandmates.

If you have some shows lined up, and if you really wanna play those, you need to be professional. Talk about the situation with the others ( incl. the singer ) and try to find a way to make it work at least for those few shows.
Be honest, everything else won´t work or at least will have some of you be very unhappy.
Warm regards
Eric

NP: Buckethead - Funnel Weaver

[Bizarro]

Open communication & discussion of the issues, that's where it's at. I personally would document all the erratic behavior so you can easily show this person why you're upset. Sometimes I forget stuff "in the heat of the discussion" so writing it down beforehand always helps me out! ;)

From what I've read, with no actual knowledge of the situtation ;), I would get ditch this fellow ASAP. Quitting *1 day* before a gig is totally out of line. How could you guarantee that this won't happen again? I don't think you can...

Good luck with this very difficult situation.

[Wyldemetal84]

Thanks so much to everyone. It's good to see that all of you are kinda with me on this. Our drummer and bassist have been more forgiving of him, simply cause they just want the band to be a whole again, but I on the other hand am starting to go with all of you. I have a strong feeling that he's going to pull some crazy bull plop yet again down the line. But definitely, I'll keep you all informed, thanks for all the help, it means a lot.

~Ben

[metalprep6969]

I've been telling the guys that we shouldn't have accepted the singer back the FIRST time he quit, but for some reason they just kept letting him come back. This past time was the worst and he lied to each person differently, which kinda made the rest of us (who were starting to get bitter) fight a little amongst ourselves. He's not that good of a singer anyways and his chemistry just doesn't work in the band.

I think it's a good idea to have him for the next few shows at least, unless we find someone new who's just awesome (a few of the singers we have in mind actually know our lyrics already, so that would make rehearsal time pretty quick and painless). But at the first chance he screws up, he's out and for good, no questions asked.

\m/

[mjo]

Wyldemetal / Meateprep,
- you're both in the same band ?, (sorry, I thought there's -3? of you guys here that are or were in the same band.,?)
If it were me, I'd speak to the other members, w/out the singer, make sure you're all thinking the same and ask him to leave,(after your upcomming gigs)

Do it nicely, no need to do something that'll make you feel bad.

just my thoughts.

G'luck
:Mike

[Wyldemetal84]

Yeah, we actually plan on having the band meeting today, so we can talk about what needs to be done. To make matters worst, I got an e-mail from him today, and it said something along the lines of, "I don't care about friendship anymore, a band is a family, and when a family member leaves, and comes back, you shouldn't belittle him, you should accept them back with open arms"

Quite frankly, I don't feel like he's in any position to make demands, or tell us how to act, or treat him for that matter (he sent me that after a petty argument we had earlier). To be honest with all of you, personally, a friendship will always come before the music does, and that's what we told him when he originally left the band. That was all well in good, until, we had found out he lied to us. That's why we didn't want to talk to him anymore. He claimed he wanted to still be friends with us, but he intentionally screwed us. We were fed up, that's why we didn't want to associate with him anymore. (BTW, it took him a month and a half to come and apologize, and IMO, I don't think he really meant it.)

P.S. - Yeah, Metalprep6969 and Guitarperson88 are both in the band, (and both phenomenal guitarists to boot) but, unfortunately, Metalprep6969 had to move under certain circumstances, so, we were left without our second guitarist, that's where Guitarperson88 came in. He had seen us play, loved what we did, so, he auditioned, and he got the job.

[Guitarperson88]

Yea when ben told me matt was back in our band, I was like, ok, but in my head, i was like, are you sure you wanna do this. Then He pulls a stunt like this, well, you know what, he can kiss our ***es because we were there for him and encouraged him and he ****ed us over. Well, I'm done. Ben, you were smart for kicking him back out man.

[Guitarperson88]

Thanks for the compliment ben.

[Koala]

To be honest with all of you, personally, a friendship will always come before the music does,

Hey Ben IMHO youre facing this the worst way possible. One thing is friendship and one thing is work. Hes messing up your band, hes messing up the work, hes messing up opportunities, hes messing up your future, or at least your current economy.

He doesnt sound like much of a friend to me anyways, but id really recommend you set friendship and music aside and see how each one works out on its own.

[LarryJ]

I can't add anything else than what I said in my first post (which seems to be the general consensous of what to do) but someone who ditches on their family isn't worth a thing in my eyes. Yeah, you can accept them back, but how many times?

A friendship is just what Koala says. If he can't handle being friends outside of the band, then he's no friend, he's just someone who's along for the ride. He should be cool and realize what he did and how he screwed things up, and deal with that , or at least understand where your coming from. If he doesn't what kind of friend is that?

[Wyldemetal84]

Yeah, that's exactly what our reasons were behind us kicking him out now. He was our friend years before the band actually ever really started. Then, we all eventually just started up the band. I definitely see what you're all talking about though, and the main reason why we're so pissed at him now, was cause he messed up his band member status by quitting the band (so many multiple times), and then like multiplied that by a thousand and killed the friendship as well, by lying to us.

I also agree with you on prioritizing music v. friendship, if we had gotten him as a member of the band first, then, became friends with him, then, we'd be more concerned with getting the band back up and running than the friendship. Cause in the long run, if he does something to ruin the friendship that was started after joining the band, a majority of the time, the same events will have caused him to ruin his role as a band member too.

Thank you all for all your advice and help, you've definitely steered us into the right direction, and we are forever greatful.

We'll still keep you all posted on our updates, and hopefully, even get some sound clips up as well.

Thanks Again,
~Ben

[bdemon]

A band really is the flipside of marriage, eh? Then there's also that blend of it being "business" as well as "family". Now that I've been through my own band disasters my humble opinion is that the singer should have been dumped the moment he flaked out on paying gigs. Sounds like you guys have already made that decision.

The way I see it, my time is valuable--to myself in particular. If I go forward with a project there has to be a solid reason (good music, good gigs, etc.) and nothing to interfere with that. Unless there's real opportunity or money involved (ha!), any flake behavior is grounds for firing. Or my quitting.

[Wyldemetal84]

Good call man, good call. That's the conclusion we've officially come to, he's not worth our time, or really the band's time for that matter.


Thanks again to everyone for all your help.

~Ben

[Bongo Boy]

I'm with Koala on this one. I've never been in a band, but I've read this thread and can hardly believe you'd buy the 'family' crap--he's using that rationale as he sees fit. Not a family when he chooses to leave, a family when he chooses to return. You're in business and you have obligations to your clients and to one another.

Accept his apologies genuinely, and ask him to have equal understanding with regard to your decision to move on...with another vocalist. Don't let the attraction of a few paying gigs cloud your thoughts; you've got every reason to believe you're going to get burned again.

Your credibility as a band comes from your ability and willingness to do what you tell your clients you're going to do. A team member's credibility comes from doing what he/she says he/she is going to do. A band may be 'like' a family, but it isn't--it can (and should) choose its own members. And while it may be 'like' a family, don't choose to be like a dysfunctional one.

How many employers would welcome back a consultant who quit with no notice before a scheduled & paid client engagement? Are you kidding me?