Thinking ahead

[Maarten]

Started in another topic:

Debaser wrote:

Not sure what your concept of transcription is, but it appears that you have confused transcribing and improvising - they are entirely separate skills. Developing good improvisational skill entails being able to translate your thought process to your fingers instantly. However, that doesn't mean that a player has an idea in his/her head and then plays it on the instrument - it's a much more immediate process than that, with everything sort of happening at once(at least in my experience).

Maarten wrote:

wouldn't agree with that. In order to improvise coherently I have to think ahead, to avoid turning on the autopilot and just play on muscle memory. When I'm in good condition I can keep thinking measures ahead of what I'm playing.

Debaser wrote:

That's interesting to me, because I've never approached it like that. I might think about it(my approach to a solo) ahead of time, and as I'm playing I may have a general feeling of the aesthetic affect that I'm aiming for, but as for the actual melodic content, it's all realized in the moment. I know it's a little off topic, but I'd be curious to know what other people think about this. I'll think about it when I'm playing with the band tonight, as well.

Maarten wrote:

I realised that this way of thinking when improvising is really important during one of my guitar lessons this year, and it has been a major breathrough point for me. It's not easy, but when I'm able to pull it of it's just like I fast forward a recording a couple of seconds (without changing pitch ofcourse) and then think of something I'm gonna play. If I don't do that, I end up playing endless melodies because I didn't think of a whole sentence and thus don't know on which note to stop. The point is that you think of larger musical phrases than you can think of when playing directly what you come up with. The amount of time you think ahead is changing all the time, and also the matter of detail. Sometimes can hear the whole phrase exactly, sometimes only the final note, and the contour of the line.
In the end it's all about imagination, and why I encourage people to train their aural imagination and listen to a lot of stuff, as opposed to approaching everything on a theoretical basis. Improvising is thinking of something to play, and then being able to play it. If you can't play over an altered dominant, it's because you can't come up with melodies that fit over it, not per se because you don't know what scale to use. You can sing happy birthday without knowing that it's built with on a major scale.

[Jeansen]

Maarten: how can you train that? thx

[theox]

Maarten: how can you train that? thx
http://www.visual-jazz.com/download.htm

I strongly recommend reading this book. It's a lot to chew on, but it also answers a lot of questions (plus, of course, raises new ones).

[Maarten]

Ways of training this skill are: Developing your hand-ear coördination by trying to play simple melodies by ear, and trying to understand the system of it. This is where theory can help because it will explain why certain notes are used against certain chords (for example). First step could be recognising that the note you hear is the root, and then knowing where the root is on your guitar. The next step is connecting that sound directly to the right spot on the guitar.
It's ear training and translating it to the guitar, and it's something that takes a lot of time to develop, but is very, very important.
For thinking ahead: Put on a simple backing track, like one chord that is repeated, preferably with a nice groove under it (otherwise it will be totally uninspiring). I would suggest putting the guitar away fot now. Listen very closely to the backing track. Try to come up with a melody that fits over it (in your mind). When you've thought of a melody, try to sing it. Repeat this untill you're singing exactly what you thought of, this can be very hard sometimes because you don't always have a very detailed thought, often its just an aproximation. Also, if you're a really inexperienced singer this could get in the way, but I would suggest singing first because it doesn't give you the problem of being hindered by an instrument.
The next step is to do the same thing, only with your guitar. You can gradually start working with more complex backgrounds wich is harder because the chords that you have to improvise over aren't being played yet (assuming that you are thinking ahead ofcourse).
The good news is that you can practise your imagination anywhere, I'm always thinking of music and coming up with little ideas (made me even get out of bed in the middle of the night sometimes to write an idea down). You can even practise translating melodies to the fretboard without a guitar:
Take a simple melody like old macdonald had a farm. Sing it, and try to think of the scale numbers that belong to the notes, in this case: Old =1 Mac=1 Do=1 Nald=5(below) Had=6 A=6 Farm=5 etc. etc.
Now think of the fretboard and visualise the places where these notes are. Visuale yourself playing it. Again it's about imagnation. This is a way of learning I really can recommend, especially if you don't have much time to practice since you can do this anywhere.
Also try to do this when listening, figure stuff out from records, it's fun and you'll learn a lot. Remember that we've all got a long way to go, but the trip itself is also fun.

[Jeansen]

wow, thx Maarten... is should try that.. how about if you're thinking something fast..do you need to slow it down at your :) brain and sing it then apply it to the guitar? thx

[Maarten]

Yes, and if you keep doing this you'll learn to "think faster" too, up till the point where you can do this real-time. It takes years though.

[Dommy]

I was recently listening to some charles mingus, and I thought I heard something unusual...

The vibraphonist was actually singing his solo while he was playing it, like I could hear the a "DOO DOO DOO DOO" in the background that matched the vibraphone solo, and I'm sure it was a voice, because no other instrument can correctly match the nuances of articulation like that..

I thought it was sort of strange, but if it worked for him, will it work for me?

[Maarten]

I used to do that too, but stopped doing it because I can't concentrate fully on my guitar sound while singing, it gets in the way of listening for me. It's good to train though, and I dó sing along in my head while playing. It's also a cool trick to do the george benson unisono scatting/playing.

[Dommy]

Wow, I just heard McCoy Tyner doing it too, crazy.

[debaser]

Keith Jarrett is known for some interesting vocalizations while improvising as well.

[John Tuohy]

I think the only problem with the sing-as-you-play approach is that people who are not extremely in touch with their "inner imaginative ear" end up not playing what they are singing, but singing what they are playing . There is a big difference.
My best friend, Mike O' Mara of the band Tubesteak is incredibly in touch with his ear. He seems to not sing a long with his playing, but uses his singing as a guide for his fingers.
A lot of amateur and even professional players are not really doing this. For example, I can play off the pentatonic scale all day, and sing along with all my licks and phrases, but i'm not really creating with my mind. I see my fingers going to certain notes, and I know what they sound like and therefore can sing along with it.
For anyone who does not have a huge mental imagination when it comes to off the cuff melodies (such as myself), a GREAT excercize, is to put a backing track on and sing something FIRST, then try to play it immediately after. Take your hands off the guitar while you sing, so you are not merely looking where your fingers are going to go.
For those who this doesn't apply, disregard this entire post :)

Regards,

John Tuohy