Everyone with a rack setup.

[TaikaJim]

Could you tell me, what kinda setup you got? Im thinking of putting together a rack system myself (yeah right... like i have the money). Anyways it would nice to hear what you guys use and what kinda sounds you get.

[EricV]

Hi TaikaJim...

I have used several different rack systems throughout the years, I enjoy the convenience and versatility of possible sounds.

For a long time I used the following setup:
-Marshall JMP-1 ( in the earlier days: Ada MP-1 )
- Alesis Q2 ( for all delay-, chorus- and weirdo-effects )
- Rocktron Intellifex ( for reverb )
- Korg DTR tuner
- Rocktron Hush Noise gate ( that blue pedal... I had an extra plug installed so I could control it via the MIDI-controller )
all that was controlled with a Digitech PMC 10... that one is a cool controller, it can be programmed conveniently with a remote control...

I later had that setup modified by a tech... with a bunch of loopers, splitters and mixers he made it possible that all effects are parallel in the signal chain... I can also blend each effect into the signal chain separately either with volume pedals or with one of those Nobels mixers ( similar to the way Morse and Petrucci do have their stuff set up )
I also had an Ibanez TS 808 and a Digitech Whammy installed into the chain.

That was the more elaborate setup. The other, smaller rack includes a JMP-1, an Eventide H3000 and another Alesis Q2 plus a tuner.

Sometimes it´s tough to get it set up to a) sound good b) be quiet ( no hum ) and c) work perfectly regarding switching. But I think it´s worth the effort, cuz it can give you a lot of versatility soundwise.
Oh yeah, by the way, these days it happens a lot that I just use an amp with a stompbox or two, or just the preamp straight into the desk... works good, is easy, and I like those sounds too.

I am interested to see what everyone else uses...
Warm regards
Eric

[TaikaJim]

Nice setup Eric. That alesis Q2 is supposedly very good.



*Fills a new lottery ticket*
Eventide dsp-4500 here I come:rolleyes:



NP: Jimmy Bruno - Giant Steps

[EricV]

Well yeah, the Q2 is an awesome multi effect, especially if you get it with a software update, which even improves the original version.
I started to work with the Q2 in early 97, and it had the first update installed, which added a 5 sec. sampler ( a really cool tool, you can trigger record / play with audio signals ), distortion ( which, as usual didn´t sound really good, but was nice for weird EQing ) and other cool stuff.
Two features that stand out to me about it:
- The different EQ´s, especially the 5 Band Graphic EQ, which really allows you to do some serious EQ-tweaking and guarantees bunches of good sounds
and
- The interface... all effects are displayed like effect pedals, so when you combine effects in a preset, it´s visualized like an effect board, with each effect being a pedal. Plus you can do a lot of different "routing" on that virtual effect board.
Really nice. And no, I don´t have a deal with Alesis, I´m saying all that for free :D

About the H3000: what I love about that one is that it is more than just a weird machine to get alien-sounds like on "Passion & Warfare". It also is a great multi effect tuning with high quality effects. That´s what I am using it for... the delays and verbs are great.
I hardly ever use it live ( it needs more than a sec to switch presets ), but it´s great for recording...

Do you already have some stuff together for your rack ? Or just planning ahead ? What are you thinking of getting, and what kinda sounds would you like to get out of it ?
Warm regards
Eric

[TaikaJim]

Im just planning ahead... I know that i want a tube preamp and maybe the power amp should be tube too.

As for effects processor i dont really know... I dont really need all the wierdo sounds but i do enjoy the versatility that a multi effect processor gives. Another option would be to just buy a reverb/delay unit.

For cabinets i dont have a clue... i play mainly blues, jazz and funk so the cabinets would have to suite my styles. Any ideas?

Basically im looking for nice clean and noiseless tone but when i want to crank it up and have that crunch, i should be able to do so.

[EricV]

Hi again.

Combining a tube-preamp AND a tube poweramp can be expensive. A lot of players that use rack-amplification use a combination of tube-preamp and solid state power amp.
I usually amplify the output of my preamp or a full rack by going into the return of a regular amp, like a 5150 or an old Lee Jackson- Marshall.

A simple delay-reverb unit ( sometimes they do have a chorus included too ) sounds like a good idea. Maybe you wanna settle for an Intellifex, they´re not too expensive and still offer good sounds although they´ve been around for a while already.

What´s great about 19" units is that you can set data like delay times very exactly. Like when I am in the studio and I know the bpm, I can adjust the delay to the exact right time... it to me sounds more musical when my delay is in time with the music.
On a pedal, it´s not easy to adjust the time to a certain value.
Some units, like the Q2, have a "tap tempo"-option... you just tap an assigned button on your MIDI Pedal ( or you can use an analog switch with the Q2 ) in time and the Q2 automatically calculates the right delay time based on the tempo of your "taps".

For clean sounds, I would most likely use 10"-speakers... they sound good clean and project very well... you might wanna look into 2X10" configurations.
Or get a 2X12", that´s nice too. One thing I really liked was to combine the sound of a combo with one of those Rivera-"subwoofers" ( the "Sub1" which can be used to most guitar systems... ). Paul RIvera really had a cool idea there.
Those add a lot of depth and punch to a regular setup, which works great with clean sounds too. And it´s easy to ship and setup.
My suggestion would be ( this is just an example, a rough suggestion ):
-a combo with 2 12" or 10" speakers, plus maybe a Sub1, incl. a small rack with a tuner and an Intellifex or Q2
- or maybe a top with a 2X12" cabinet, maybe an added Sub1 or a Thiele 1X12, plus the aforementioned rack.
Of course those are just some ideas, it´s up to you what you wanna use, and you of course should do some extended testing and research...
Warm regards
Eric

NP: Derek Sherinian- Inertia ( Guitars: Steve Lukather / Zakk Wylde )

[TaikaJim]

For clean sounds, I would most likely use 10"-speakers... they sound good clean and project very well... you might wanna look into 2X10" configurations. Or get a 2X12", that´s nice too. One thing I really liked was to combine the sound of a combo with one of those Rivera-"subwoofers" ( the "Sub1" which can be used to most guitar systems... ). Paul RIvera really had a cool idea there.
Those add a lot of depth and punch to a regular setup, which works great with clean sounds too. And it´s easy to ship and setup.


Thats really interesting. Ill definetly look into that. Im getting excited already!!

Thx Eric.

[Essatic]

My rack is nowadays a boss GX700 preamp/effectprocessor, combined with a marshall EL34 50/50.

That GX700 is a real bargain, you've got a bunch of usable sounds for a good price. But don't expect studio quality though!

If you're into metal, it has the famous metal zone on board! Combined with the equalizer and you're off!

The weak point to me is the clean sounds... they don't really have any warm sound.

I used to have an ada mp1 as second preamp, who did the job much better for clean sounds! But then again, was noisy for distortions!

The marshall is a good poweramp, but then again.. it weighs a TON. I'll probably going to sell that one soon. I'm more into the strickly guitar/stack combination nowadays.

The only things I'm going to put in the effectloop
are:

- a rocktron Super Hush
- BBE Sonic maximizer
- TC Electronics G Major...

They fit in a 4unit, and are light to carry!!

we don't all have roadies you know :-(

Greetz..Essatic

[EricV]

Taika, you´re welcome !

Essatic, thanks for sharing that info...

My rack is nowadays a boss GX700 preamp/effectprocessor, combined with a marshall EL34 50/50.

I am familiar with the GX700, my former guitar tech used that one and always recommended it. He liked the amount of features and the user-friendly interface...

I used to have an ada mp1 as second preamp, who did the job much better for clean sounds! But then again, was noisy for distortions!

The good old MP1... man, for a while I really loved that one, used it a lot. ( I guess that was the Paul Gilbert-influence ). I liked the option to switch between solid state- and tube-sounds. With the Hush-pedal, the noise was manageable...

The marshall is a good poweramp, but then again.. it weighs a TON. I'll probably going to sell that one soon. I'm more into the strickly guitar/stack combination nowadays.
I hear ya. It´s the same here. I use the rack / 19" stuff mainly for hired gun / studio jobs... for my own music, I rather just plug the guitar straight into the amp ( or preamp ), and add effects afterwards ( dely / reverb ).

we don't all have roadies you know :-(

Well, they keep dropping and breaking that stuff anyway :p
Warm regards
Eric

NP: Marty Friedman- True Obsessions

[szulc]

Rack

Mesa Boogie Studio Preamp
ADA MP 1
ART DRX
ART DRX 2100
MidiVerb 4
Mackie 1202 VLZ Mixer


Peavey Classic 50/50 4- EL-84s Removed, bridged in Mono
(So only about 25 watts/channel, 50 watts Bridged)
Driving
1 - 4x12 5150 Cab Mono

Carver PM-300 Stereo
2 - Thiele 12" EV Cabs in stereo

The guitar signal is split into the MP1 and the Boogie.
The ART DRX2100 is in the Boogie Effects Loop
The ART DRX is in the MP1 Effects Loop
On the Floor I have a Rland GR1 Synth and a Ground Effects Midi Controller with a Volume pedal plugged in for continuous control.
I also have a foot switch for the Boogie and to select which preamp is active to the Peavey amp, and one to activate my powerbridge.

The Roland Gr1 (Floor Synth Unit) is input into the Mackie in stereo. My Power Bridge output is Direct into the Mackie.
The 5150 is miked into the Mackie along with the Line out and Speaker Emulator out of the Mesa Boogie and Line out of the MP1, the Mackie has the MidiVerb4 in the effects loop.
The Thiele cabs are for me to hear myself in stereo, most of the thump comes from the 5150.

I can get Real Acoustic sounds from my powerbridge(Sounds just like my Takamine with no feedback, but its a Warmoth Strat with a PowerBridge wang bar)

Clean Electric with Compression and or chorus with the MP1.
Buttery Clean warm Electric with the Boogie.

Semi- Clean Bluesey Tube Sounds from the MP1.
(I use about 10 Presets on this thing from clean to over the top)

For Great not quite so noisey tube sounds the Boogie fits the bill nicely. The sound is smoother and less raw as the MP1.

The Delays can give me great reverbs/ flanges echos etc even decent phasing, but I still use my Mutron Phase III for the 'Robin Trower' tones.

The Mackie gives me a lot of flexability since I can mix it all together and have several tones going at once, including nice synth sounds from the GR1.

If I am in a small room I can skip the tube amp all together and run everything through the Carver and get good tones at whisper volumes.

[EricV]

Hey James,

cool, I am familiar with much of the stuff you´re listing. I have been using a 5150 for years and I really liked it´s sound ( the hiss never bothered me, always had a Hush in the loop ). Before I used it, I usually had an overdrive- or distortion-pedal hooked up to the amp for some extra-gain for leads...
When I switched to the 5150, I changed that system... I controlled the gain mainly with the volume knob of the guitar, cuz the 5150 has such a huge amount of gain.
Great amp.

The ADA MP1... gee, it´s been a while since I owned one. I liked mine a lot. I always liked Paul Gilberts "dirty clean sound" ( kind of like an almost clean sound which clips a bit because of high output-PUs... he used it for leads a lot, like on his first video and o the Racer X live-records )
I also liked the clean sounds I could get with it... the option to switch between Solid State and tube-mode is cool.
Have you ever checked it´s follow-up ( MP-2 ) ?!?

Between´`98 and `00, I used a combination of a 5150 and the MP1, with an Intellifex and Q2. Really nice.

The preamp I have been using most recently is a modified ( hot-rodded ) Marshall JMP1... it´s very versatile and has a lot of different sounds available.

A great way I found to include stomp boxes was a Nobels switcher, I believe it was called MF8. That´s a 19"-unit with 8 loops. YOu can hook up several stompboxes and switch them into the chain with that switcher, which is midi-accessable.
Unfortunately, it´s not being build anymore.
Haven´t kept up with all the new rack-stuff recently, I am sure there is some new unit comparable to the MF 8...

How do you like the 5150-cabs compared to, say regular Marshall 1960´s ?
I used the 1960 V´s quite a bit. I also like the Thiele 1X12"´s, I used to use one as a monitor... like, in the backline the amp would be hooked up to a regular 4X12 or 2X12 which would be miked, and I would also hook up one of those Thieles to the amp and put it in front of me, as a separate guitar-monitor.
It was cool and I could not only hear myself a bit better, I also could get some very nice feedback...

Man, don´t cha just love those gear-chats ? :rolleyes:
Warm regards
Eric

[szulc]

Those cabinets have the equivalent of a 'Bass Bar' that connects the front and back, that gives these cabinets extra 'Thump'.
I really like the heavy sound you get with these.

I didn't like the mp2 it was not as 'Live' as the mp1.
I really like the tones of this plus the compression and analog chorus. The Boogie gives me the ultimate tone if I can live with just two or three.

My thieles are really just a monitoring system for me to like my sound onstage in stereo, plus for small gigs where you don't need much volume, I can just drive them with the carver.

You say you had your Marshall JMP modified, what did you have done? More Gain? I used to hop up old fenders and Marshalls when Iwas in college.

More Later.....

[EricV]

OK, I see... I liked the increased bass-response of those 5150- cabs. I used to plug the 5150 into Marshall 1960´s ( the slanted ones ), till I purchased one of the 5150 cabs...
I knew it was going to be great when I did a soundcheck in a small club, turned the amp up to 6 or so ( just to check how that sounds... I usually don´t have to turn it up quite that far ), and the metal-front of a slot machine which was standing close to the cab fell off :D ( No Kidding ! )

About the JMP... I had it tuned for just a bit of extra gain... I don´t have to use a booster or extra overdrive-pedal with it anymore.
I also had the dude check whether the sound-circuit was separated from the switching-and MIDI-circuit as much as possible. ( To make sure most of the digital stuff is out of the sound-circuit ).
Finally, I had him put in some really good sounding-preamp tubes. Now, the thing sounds great and I used it on a lot of occasions. Very versatile, and it delivers anything from warm cleansounds to really punchy crunch-sounds up to high gain lead-stuff...

I am currently switching to Laney-gear though, I really love the sound and versatility of their Chrome-O-Zone combo...

Warm regards
Eric

[Essatic]

Strange things happening here. The output transfo of my marshall El34 50/50 got wasted by a stupid soundtechnician, messing up my speakercable! Luckely i was fortunate that it was only one side... so i got to finish our gig.

Anyway.. in the past i really ordered those transfo's at marshall, but i had to wait quite long and they were expensive too.

Now there's a guy in belgium who makes outputtransfo's with the same characteristics like those marshall ones. So i ordered it from him. Nothing special till now.

This week i received my transfo and went to my technician. We measured that transfo... and it really didn't have that marshall frequency response, but more a lineair one.

AT first I felt cheated, but then again... why not give it a try and see how it sounds. And I must say...the result is amazing. it's like I'm playing with two different amps now.

By the way... anyone checked the Laney VH100 R out? The amp is a real killer... next one on my list! :D

Greetz Essatic

[EricV]

Hi Essatic...

yeah, I know those "weird things" you talking about. A few years ago I owned a JCM 900 ( HiGain Dual Reverb ). One day, during a show, our rhythm guitarist stepped on the cable that was going to the input... the amp stopped working immediately.
I brought it to my tech, he checked it and said that by stepping on the cable, something was pulled inside the amp and broke... and that started a chain reaction which blew up two poweramp tubes... Sounds weird huh ? Well I think it IS
I had to shell out a bunch of money to get this fixed, and just a few weeks later, there was something wrong with the poweramp again. So I sold the amp. Too much trouble, to expensive...

Well, it´s a weird story about the transformator. But I guess as long as it does not damage the amp...

I checked the Laney VHR, it´s a GREAT, very versatile ( very "british sounding" ) amp.
Lots of features, and I heard that they are very reliable. I heard Andy Timmons´s VH100, and I also heard Paul Gilberts one during a workshop.
I don´t wanna elaborate on the Laney-connection yet, but I might be using more of their stuff soon.
The first amp I am gonna get ( Monday ) is a Chrome-O-Zone... that´s a wonderful amp, I checked it out last year already.
It´s a 30 W Class A-combo, 2 channels ( each with footswitchable gain stages, so it´s kinda 4 channels ), very elaborate effect loops and other cool features. The best thing is, it can do everything from nice clean sounds over classic british crunch sounds to higain lead...
Man, I feel like a little kid waiting for Santa... hey hold on, actually I feel like I feel EVERY year around christmas... well, like a little kid :rolleyes:
Warm regards
Eric

NP: Paul Gilbert & Jimmy Kidd- Raw Blues Power

[Essatic]

Hey Eric,

Well my output transfo has the same specifications, so it can't damage my amp... just another sound.

Actually my experience with marshall has never been good.. I once borrowed an 15 watt marshall combo from a friend ... after 5min smoke was all over the place.. the preamp was burned!

That friend had been playing for over a year with that amp, but 5 min with me was to hard for it! ;-). Lucky me that it was still under waranty!

Now that Marshall EL34 had it's share of trouble too, it's now my 2nd output transfo.. but now it's totally repared.

The reason that i would buy that laney, is because my guitarteacher modifies Laney's. I've heard his VH100 R and it rules! He sells a lot of them..

Greetz..Essatic

[EricV]

Hi Essatic

Yeah, I have heard from quite a few people that they switched to Laney as an alternative to Marshall.

Have you checked out the user reviews at Harmony-Central.com yet ? If not, you can do so HERE (http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data/Laney/VH100R-01.html)

Sounds pretty good, huh ? ;)
Íf your teacher has one in store, check out the Chrome-O-Zone, also.

Warm regards
Eric

NP: Chet Atkins & Tommy Emmanuel- The Day Fingerpickers Took Over The World

[Essatic]

hehe.. sure.. i visit harmony central a lot..good site!

To me that laney is no alternative to marshall, but more to mesa boogie and peavey...

No chrome zone in the shop yet though :(

and did you buy that one now?

Greetz Essatic

[EricV]

Hi Essatic,

in my opinion, the Laney can definitely replace a Marshall sound-wise, it does have that "british sound" if you use EL34s.

And yes, I did get the Chrome-O-Zone from Laney now ( didn´t really have to pay ;) ), and it´s awesome... very versatile, great Satch- and Timmons-style sounds, lots of cool features.
I will use it live the first time in about a week and a half.
Check it out if you get a chance to, it´s awesome...
Warm regards
Eric

NP: Eric Johnson- Tones

[EricV]

OK, the amp came in on monday.
Here are the specs: it´s a 30 W Class A all tube-combo with 2
10" speakers ( I´m gonna use the amp with a 4X12" instead of the built-in speakers live ).
It has 2 channels, each with two separate gain stages ( so you could consider it a 4 channel ). It has several different combinations for the effect loops, serial or parallel, and each channel has a separate loop.
It also has a reverb built in.

So it has a lot of cool features which make it a very versatile amp ( which is VERY useful to me ). Sound-wise, I am blown away.
The clean-sounds are great, similar to the Riveras I used to use.
The crunch-sounds rock, too, perfect for a punchy rhythm guitar and bluesey lead-sounds, nice and raunchey.
The lead-setting ( Channel 2 + extra gain ) is awesome. I do have a Boss overdrive hooked up to it for another boost ( for higain-sounds ), and it definitely sounds great.
You can easily turn notes on the guitar into harmonics, just with some slight finger-vibrato.
And all that is a great combination, since I need a versatile amp like that. I can just take the amp and use it in the studio or in a club-setting the way it is.
For live-shows ( bigger ones ) or some studio sessions where I need more punch and stuff, I can simply hook up a 4X12" to it.
And effects sound great with it, although these days, I limit myself to a chorus pedal ( for the clean channel ), the aforementioned overdrive for some extra gain, and maybe some delay or reverb.

Anyway, I love this thing´...
Check it out if you get the chance

Laney-Website (http://www.laney.co.uk)

Warm regards
Eric

[Essatic]

Well if you're playing live with a good PA then i think those 30 watt should be enough, but I go for the VH100R, because good soundtechnicians are hard to find nowadays, and if they **** up the monitor-sound, then other bandmembers can still hear my amp well.

But I know... the amount of WATT isn't actually a good view on volume... should be dB/watt for reference..

Actually have you tried the VH100R yet? Because I'm surprised that you still use a pedal for highgain sounds. The VH100 I tried had 6L6 tubes and was modified....and I couldn't imagine more gain!

By the way... I must admit that the laney on highgain is a bit noisy when you don't play.. do you use a Rocktron Hush for it?

On the other hand, you can just switch the amps.. because you didn't have to pay for it anyway.. (lucky bastard :-D )

Question.. I noticed 2x 10 inch... is it a stereo amp?

Effects-wise... I can agree with your choice.. a chorus and a delay is also all I use. Maybe a wah in the future... we'll see about that later.

Actually are we talking about pedals here.. or about an effectsprocessor.. because I'm curious how you switch sounds.

(If I'm changing from rack to guitarstack.. always good to know)

Greetz... Essatic

np: Queen Of The Damned Soundtrack..

[EricV]

Originally posted by Essatic
Well if you're playing live with a good PA then i think those 30 watt should be enough, but I go for the VH100R, because good soundtechnicians are hard to find nowadays, and if they **** up the monitor-sound, then other bandmembers can still hear my amp well.

Exactly. A 2X10 tends to sound like a mosquito, especially on bigger stages. That is why I do the 4X12". I always did that, it´s simply like using a top with a 4X12"... and for smaller purposes, I just use the built-in speakers, so I got the best of both worlds


Actually have you tried the VH100R yet? Because I'm surprised that you still use a pedal for highgain sounds. The VH100 I tried had 6L6 tubes and was modified....and I couldn't imagine more gain!
Yes I did, like it lots. These days though, I really do like that class A-sound of amps like the Chrome-O-Zone.
And using an additional overdrive pedal to boost the amp is no big problem, it´s something that many players do ( Satriani, Vai, Zakk Wylde and all those guys all have some Boss overdrive-pedals that they use to boost the amp a bit ) . I used to do that when I was still using Marshalls. I then switched to 5150´s and those had more gain than you´d need, so there was no need for a booster.
But with amps like the Chrome-O-Zone or the Boogie Mk4, I like to have a booster for some little gain-boost. The amp does have a bunch of gain, anyway, but I am using the pedal to get higain-sounds at lower volumes too, without the poweramp-clipping.
I will get a VH100 too, one day, it´s on my list. I like that one a lot, too.

By the way... I must admit that the laney on highgain is a bit noisy when you don't play.. do you use a Rocktron Hush for it?

With the Chrome-O-Zone, I am not. With 5150´s ( which are more noisy than the Vh100 or the C-O-Z ), I do. I do have that blue Rocktron Hush Pedal ( with two different settings that you can switch ), and I put that into the loop.
Those pedals are not built anymore ( don´t quote me though, maybe they started to build them again. Last time I checked, they weren´t anymore. ), but you can sure find some used ones.
They work great, very natural. If you set them up right, they really only cut the noise, not the tone.
I had mine modified... I can hook it up to an analog switch to switch between setting A and B with my MIDI Board ( which has an analog output too ), so with the board, I can switch the channel on the amp, the preset of the effect units and the "channel" of the Hush-pedal with one button.
( I do have different Hush-settings for clean and distorted sounds )

On the other hand, you can just switch the amps.. because you didn't have to pay for it anyway.. (lucky bastard :-D )

Well, I don´t think I wanna part with the C-O-Z in the near future, but I will definitely get a VH100 one day in the near future... they´re both different amps, not only regarding watts and tube configuration...

Question.. I noticed 2x 10 inch... is it a stereo amp?
Nope, it´s not. Just a regular mono-combo with two speakers.


Effects-wise... I can agree with your choice.. a chorus and a delay is also all I use. Maybe a wah in the future... we'll see about that later.
I did use Wahs a lot in the past. Right now, I am not because I just don´t... feel like it, I dunno. But if you want to hear my opinion:
I do have three favorite Wah-pedals. ( In no particular order )
1- The Jim DUnlop Jimi Hendrix Wah. I checked that one out one day, after my regular Cry Baby was kinda dead.
It has way more of a "Wah"-modulation, really vocal style instead of the rather simple filter-sweep of a Cry Baby. And it sounds awesome with clean sounds too ( Think "The Streets Of San Francisco" ) I think the difference is that the Hendrix-Wah has a smaller pedal range...
2. The Bad Horsie by Morley. SOunds great, a bit less extreme than the Hendrix-wah. I like the feature that you switch it on just by putting your foot on it. Only problem is that it´s tough to use it like a filter ( leaving it in open position ) the way guys like Michael Schenker did.
3. The Budda Wah. That is one wah that really blew the minds of a lot of people. GREAT sound. ( Sorry, don´t remember the model-name. ) I checked it out at the NAMM a while ago, and I thought it was one of the best-sounding ones ever.

ctually are we talking about pedals here.. or about an effectsprocessor.. because I'm curious how you switch sounds.
Depends. In the past I used big rack systems ( from 98-2000, in Atlanta, I had a 12 unit-rack FULL of stuff ), right now, I go for some stomp boxes and that´s it.
If it´s required, I like to bring some 19" stuff too ( like if I need certain delays... they´re easier to adjust in exact ms on a rack-unit like the Q2, Quadraverb or Intellifex )
Live, with the Eric Vandenberg Band, I tend to just use a Boss Chorus, a Boss distortion and maybe a Quadraverb for some delays and that´s it. Less things to cause problems in the signal chain, and you can already get a lot of sounds with that, using the volume- and tone knob etc.
Other than that, I do have stuff like the Intellifex, Q2, a Boss multi effect, an H3000 and some other stuff in storage and I choose what I use for every job individually.


Warm regards
Eric

NP: Carl Verheyen- Slang Justice

[Bongo Boy]

I hesitated to ask about gear until I found this thread. I'm currently using a little Hafler amp and speakers--just didn't want to buy a combo box. But then I started looking more closely at what was available, and I got really puzzled.

Why might someone prefer to buy your typical combo or even head/cab setup, rather than a nice preamp/effects processor, power amp and PA speakers? I'm looking at a significant price difference for some combinations. If I pick a pricey combo box with 1 or 2 12s (say a 30W RMS Vox) I can easily top out well above, say, a mid-sized power amp (250W/channel), WAY more speaker, and a nice pre/processor.

Why would anyone still do that? There HAS to be a good reason.

[szulc]

A lot of people are buying into the boutique amp myth these days.
I personally, have a strong preference for vacuum tubes.
Before I had a real job I would modify old Fenders to suit my need for the tone, ( this is back when you could get an old fender for < $100). Now everyone has gone crazy with 'Vintage' and you can't find even a wimpy silverface for < $500.
When I got a real job I bought a Mesa Studio Preamp ( $650.00 back in 1988). If you are a 'die hard' tube fan you will 'need' a good tube pre-amp, a good tube poweramp is also good but less of a necessity. Try lots of gear out and find what you like unless you can find a reason to spend $2000 on a Vox reissue or HiMu or a Matchless (Drz) etc... , get something that you can live with and afford. I have tried many pieces of Gear I like that won't break the bank, generally they have tubes in them or at least 1 tube. Right now, because I am lazy, I use a pandoras box, it is small and can run on batteries and sounds pretty god for being solid state. But when I need to ROCK I use my rack setup described above.

[Bongo Boy]

I don't know the rationale behind choosing traditional cabinets vs PA speaker systems for live performances. Can anyone say a few words about why a guitarist would put a cab on a small-venue stage rather than using PA speakers (or vice versa). I know nothing at all--I'm confused about how these things are used and when.

This question is probably vague to those in-the-know, but I know so little that I just don't know how else to ask it.

[RM II]

If I'm understanding your question correctly, the difference that matters is that speakers installed in a cabinet (4x12) or a combo are specifically voiced for guitars. Guitars produce mid-range frequencies unlike a bass obviously. Some people feel that Celestions have a brittle kind of sound while others obviously love them. It's all up to the individual's ears.

PA speakers have speakers that are made for reproducing what you send through them, from lows to highs. They need to cover the spectrum.

Your question almost sounds like your asking about going direct instead of micing the amp. I could be reading you all wrong, though.

For the record, I got away from the rack mount deal about 3 years ago and went with a mult-fx unit. Lot less hassle IMO. ;)

[Bongo Boy]

RM II: the first part of your answer was the sort of thing I was looking for: some aspect of the speakers themselves (or their configuration, packaging, etc) that made them appealing. So you're saying it's that folks think they sound better for guitar. Ok.

I wasn't thinking about recording when I asked the question. But your last response confused me (re: going with an f/x box instead of rack gear). This is confusing 'cause: an f/x box CAN be a rack unit, and doesn't eliminate the need for preamps and power amps (which can also all be rack units, or not). Right?

Oh!! Are you talking about something like a modeling amp/modeling combo, like the Line 6 things (and many others)?

[Bongo Boy]

Hold it. Now I'm having a REAL major problem.

ALL cabinets are physically very similar, aren't they? I mean, there are like 3 different speakers that account for 80% of all the cabinets I've seen, and they all have 1, 2 or 4 speakers, 10" or 12". But for each config of speakers, the enclosures are within a few percent of each other in dimensions--at least they all look pretty much the same to me--height, width, depth. They open, semi-open, closed.

So I don't get what "design" has gone into anything. You bolt two 10 inchers into a box that looks just like every other box that's been built for last 50 years. Eh?

I'm exagerrating to get a point across--I know all 10" speakers aren't at all the same--but how many DIFFERENT 10" speakers are used to make all of the cabs in the world? Not too many, I don't think.

So I'm suggesting that besides minor differences in the speakers themselves and minute differences in the enclosures, the bigger influence on sound would maybe be the circuit inside the cabinet ("crossover" circuits?). And I'd think you'd WANT to get that circuitry OUT of the cabinet and into a box that's controllable and programmable--then, use the flattest response speakers made to "take them out of the equation".

That's what I'm talkin' about. Am I missing something big and fundamental, or is this idea just another one that's valid but that many folks don't care for?

[EricV]

Bongo Boy,
speaker cabinets are a science by itself. I don´t knwo much about it, but I know that there are many different-sounding cabs out there.
There are quite a few different types of 12"-speakers i.e.
They differ a bit in construction, type of magnet, how much theý´ve been worn/used ( changes the sound ) etc.
Same with cabinets. When I was in my teens, I tried to build HiFi-speakers. Believe me, once you get into that topic, you´ll be surprised to see how many factors there are to it... the measurements of the cabinet, angles and distances of the speakers, the volume of the cabinet, the material used for the cabinet etc.
It´s not so much the circuit in a guitar cab ( there ain´t much wiring... no frequency splitters etc. ). It depends on how the boards / the walls are connected ( there are different ways of connecting them... different ways to "build" a cabinet ), the type of speakers, the materials used, the construction itself ( measurements etc. ) are the factors that make a difference.
We once took 4 12" speakers and mounted them into different 4X12" cabinets. Believe it or not, they sounded different in each cabinet.
As I said, I´m not a specialist, but I know that there´s more to building a good-sounding cab than I would have thought...
Warm regards
Eric

[szulc]

The Peavey 5150 has a different design than most 4X12 cabinets.
It actually has a connector ( like a bass bar on a violin) that mechanically connects the front(Baffle) and the rear of the cabinet)
This stabilizes the baffle and gives better bass response in the 50-90 hz range ( E and A strings are open around 82 hz and 110 hz in stadard tuning) Consequentially these cabinets have more punch and you can really feel it in your nads. Granted the speakers that they are loaded with make a difference also, I have 2 EV's and 2 sheffields in mine and that seems to work nicely sinc ethe EV's are very bright and clean and the sheffileds are more celestion like.

Look up transmission line and infinite baffle on the internet and you will find speaker design links, when I was younger I mad cabinets as well. JBL and EV both offer designs for their speakers for various enclosures. I have both sets somewhere EV had one cabinet design for a bass enclosure with 30" speakers.

There is a great deal of engineering science that goes into cabinet design, and some cool mathematical modeling software out there.

[RM II]

Bongo Boy,

Yes, to be specific I use a Digitech RP2000 processor. I guess what I meant to say is that I went to the floor type units.:)

[EricV]

Interesting... well, before I went with Laney, I used a Marshall JMP1 straight into the mixing desk for live-situations... it worked, was set up quick, sounded good, left more room on space...

Warm regards
Eric

NP: Puddle Of Mud- Blurry ( track )... great tune

[DracWell]

Not really the topic (or is it?)

The racksystem I'm building is as in this picture:
http://hem.passagen.se/catant/Live_Guitar_Setup.gif

I have the Pod Pro right now, getting the G-Major soon to. About the poweramp I'm not sure, I'm looking on a Marshall 8008. And the cab is going to be like the one I have my Pod Pro emulating (love that unit btw)... About the breathcontroller, I'll see if I can nag the guy about building one for me or I'll just do it my self.

A little problem I have is controlling the ****e. The Pod Pro has fixed progam changes and I want the top row of pedals act like Breathcontroller on/off. Delay on/off... So I'll probobly send it to the G-Major and if I press like the first pedal to change amp on the pod and fxs I'll program the g-major to send those program changes to the pod. Seems like a good idea. I'll just have to wait and see how it works out =)

One thing that annoys me is the tc elec. preamp/eq is that you can only bypass the eq. I might wanna use that only for driving the pod's input to clipping for the rhythm patch. I don't want it to affect the clean patch. I should be able to build a simple unit that switches just like reverb on/off on most amps. And then just give it inputs/ouputs so it acts like a remote controlled bypass switch (try to say that fast 10x) But the best would be if I could by pass the whole unit in itself. Oh well, you can't get all you want (unless you have the $$) ;)

I'm REALLY longing for the time when I have this setup finished.

Cheers!
-Mattias

NP - Meshuggah - Stengah

[Guni]

Hi Mattias,

Could you please check the URL of the image ya posted. I get some kind of error message - What does "Tyvärr!"mean? - some kind of Swedish Gothic Metal ??? :D

Thanks

Guni

[DracWell]

Guni. hehe Tyvärr = Sorry =) the 404 ****e you know ;)

Hm. That hosting service is pretty dumb sometimes. I'll post the image here =)

[EricV]

Hi there,

interesting setup, that is.

If you need any advice or tips, maybe you can get in touch with Techstar in Nashville... they do a lot of custom-jobs and stuff regarding guitar-gear... I have worked with them before, and I usually consult them when I´m in the States and need help with my setup. Great company.
Currently, my setup for most jobs ( like with the Eric Vandenberg Band etc. ) has become really simple. I do still have rack-stuff around, because I need it for some live- and studio-"hired gun"-jobs, but if it´s up to me, I simply bring my Laney combo, ( or a 5150 for jobs with bands like Perpetuum Overdose ) and some stompboxes ( currently an overdrive, a chorus and a delay ), and that´s it...
Your setup is quite interesting, though
Warm regards
Eric

NP: Thomas Blug´s new CD... cool songs, amazing Strat-sounds, as usual...

[EricV]

Originally posted by Essatic
Well if you're playing live with a good PA then i think those 30 watt should be enough...

It´s been a while since we talked about this ( the Chrome-O-Zone ), but I just wanted to reply to this...
Well, it´s 30 W Class A, and that means it really sounds louder than 30 W solid state or 30W Class B-switching.
The tubes are used up faster, but this amp is easily loud enough for the studio, the rehearsal room and the stage...
I have owned it for about 2 months now, and I used it in different situations... small stages, bigger stages, rehearsal rooms, playing with other guitarists... really, the volume is no problem at all, especially when I run it in Pentode-mode instead of triode-mode.

It even sounds good ( not too trebly as I first expected ) with only the 2X10... although I always hook it up to a 4X12" live...
Eric

[EricV]

... here is an explanation of the most common amp-classes...

Class A amplifiers use one or more transistors that conduct during both the positive and negative cycles of the signal. This Class of amplifier has the lowest distortion but it is very inefficient and generates a lot of heat. A Class A amplifier requires that the amplifier generate the full current no matter what the output is. If you were simply listening to FM or watching a movie, the amplifier would be consuming as much power as if you had it turned up to full volume.

In order to increase efficiency, Class B amplifiers use one transistor to conduct the positive portion of the waveform and another transistor to conduct the negative portion of the waveform. 99% of all audio amplifiers today are Class B. Class B amplifier can be built today so that its distortions are well below what the human ear can detect and nearly to the point where it is unmeasurable.

Many amplifiers call themselves Class A/B. In reality, very few are. Early Class B amplifiers had a problem known as switching delay. In a class B design, a transistor works 50% of the cycle while another transistor works 50% of the cycle. In early class B amplifiers, there was a distortion created between the time the devices were switching back and forth. Some people referred to this distortion as notch distortion because there was a notch appearance on an oscilloscope between the two waveforms.

Class A/B was created to leave the transistor conducting while the second transistor was conducting. This created an overlap between the two signals. The problem with this approach is that it created its own distortion called gumming. This means that the signal would get a little fatter where the two devices were both conduction.
Today, if you look at a properly designed Class B amplifier on a scope, you will see no switching distortion.

[IamBurnout]

I am currently using an ART SGX2000, Rockman XPR, ART MultiverbAlpha 2.0, Digitech DSP256XL, and a rackmount TubeWorks head, into a 4x10 cab.

The SGX does dynamics (comp, gate, eq, filter) and reverb. The XPR is for distortions, and the DSP/Multiverb handle most of the effects.
The whole thing is controlled by a ART X15.

Being budget conscious, I only spent about $1400 on the whole set-up.:D