Excessive practice - how is it done?

[redmunk]

I'm always hearing about guitar players who practice a hell of a lot more than me and I tend to feel bad about that - like I'm not putting enough effort in. I used to practice between 1 and 3hrs a day depending. Recently I've gone up to between 4 and 1/2 to 5 hrs a day. I've also spent time composing ontop of that.

To be honest, I don't really understand how people practice much more than that. I mean, i'f you practice 5 hrs, and you've got to add in breaks at least every 30 mins to keep your concentration up. Right now I include 4 15mins breaks plus a maximum of 1 hr for lunch, although i usually only take a 1/2hr.

You're practicing to a timer, so you lose a few minutes every hour when you've got to stop for a minute just to change the metronome and reset the timer. So it takes about 7 hrs to get through this 5 hr schedule. I've heard of people practicing 12 hrs a day. Aside from little breaks, it's going to probably take about 3hrs of your day just to eat meals, get dressed, wash etc. 12+3= 15, leaving you 8 or 9 hrs to sleep. And that's if you don't even do anything else.

I mean, if you practice that much, what do you really mean by it? When I say practice I mean you set a timer and you play something specific to a metronome. Anything that's not done to a timer doesn't count. So if you sit down so practice for 30 mins and you stop to go to the bathroom half way through then you only really practiced for 27 mins. Anything else such as composing, learning a song, noodling, improvising, that's not done to a timer, I don't count as practice. I write it down in my diary as 'playing'. If some people call everything you do with your guitar practicing, that's cool, I just want to know, because it would explain a lot better how these people do it.

thanks
redmunk

[axe_man_oli]

Just keep doing it.

Once you get into a tight routine of practice, everything is on autopilot in between. The time really doesn't matter, as in little 3 mins here and there. What does matter is that when you practice you PRACTICE. When I take a break I come back and I find it hard to go straight back into what I was doing (because I don't practice enough).
Its fine to go to the bog, so long as soon as you pick up that guitar you get practicing without any distraction. If you can only manage 5 hours thats plenty, so long as as much of that time as humanely possible is spent practicing to the max. I find it hard because I have a crud attention span. But once you get deep into it after a couple of weeks it should just flow no problem. You won't think about practicing, it will be perfectly routine, you won't check the time because you will be so absorbed in practicing. or something....

I understand what you are saying because I kind of am not sure about the whole thing. I'm sure someone will clear it up properly.

[wild_child]

to me, practice means doing anything which is productive, or progressive towards your goal, whatever that goal may be.
It is interesting that you do not count improvisation as "practice." i consider this an extremely important part of my practice ritual, as it is something which can be used to bring everything together. I have various backing tracks which i can put on and i improvise over them, incorporating any licks/excercises, (regardless of what key the original lick i learned was in, its more important to be able to play it in as many keys as possible) techniques or general theory i have learned.
studying theory i also consider practice time, however i usually study with guitar in hand once i have my head round what i'm learning.
i also find learning and playing songs to be important and like to incorporate that into my practice time. after all, thats the entire point of playing an instrument, isnt it? for example, a tennis player could spend years training with a coach and learning how to do all the different techniques, but to truly progress, one must play a match.
playing with other musicians is practice, practice definately does not have to happen on your own.
and, obviously i consider technical exercises practice time.

things i DON'T consider practicing is anything which is non, or even counter productive, such as just noodling or trying to learn things that are out of your depth for the sake of skipping fundemental skills in the hope of getting good quicker.

the trick with practacing is to take rests. someone who sits and practaces 5 hours straight is not going to learn as much as someone who plays for 5 hours, an hour at a time with an hour break inbetween. You'll also find that you will be able to manage your time and allow yourself to practice longer this way.

Dictinary definitions -

Practice:
a. Repeated performance of an activity in order to learn or perfect a skill: Practice will make you a good musician.
b. A session of preparation or performance undertaken to acquire or polish a skill: goes to piano practice weekly; scheduled a soccer practice for Saturday.
c. Archaic The skill so learned or perfected.
d. The condition of being skilled through repeated exercise: out of practice.

Interesting how they specifically sighted musicianship as the examples ;)

[redmunk]

I understand what you're saying about improvisation. whe I said I counted it as playing unless it was done specifically to a timer. For example, if I were to say, I'm going to spend 10 mins plaing over this track exploring how using thes scales would improve my playing, then that would count as practice. If it took on a life of it's own it wouldn't be practice but it would still be learning as possibly more valuable. When I said I wrote certain things down as 'playing' it doesn't mean I don't think they are important, I just don't class them as practicing. This is fine, I just wondered what other people classed as practicing so I could work out what they meant when they said they practiced for 10 hrs a day

[street_lethal]

who cares, just worry about it. dont worry asbout others and what they are doing, just play, dont consider it as practice, just play.

[rmuscat]

who cares, just worry about it. dont worry asbout others and what they are doing, just play, dont consider it as practice, just play.

i agree with stree_lethal -- Hail PG ;)

anyway ... i'd say ask your body (finger and hands mainly) and mind to give you the answer.

i.e. when i started out i could barely do an hour until i couldn't take any longer due to pain in finger sand concentration. Only doing chromatic exercises.

Today my average practice schedule is 3hrs (depends on the day and mood). Concentration starts going down after 2 hrs. When I rehearse with the band i spend around 4-5hrs playing from barre chords to solos ... but when i started out i would usually do the last 2hrs in pain. Concentration is better with the band coz most of the stuff you learn by heart.

So what i'm saying is work until you feel productive. And always push that little bit more to extend your capabilities.

p.s. good luck on your next year i've you have tougher work coming along ;) i envy you studying music academically

[street_lethal]

since im 17 and i dont have a job and i have summer vacation (whoo!) i am able to play religiously 6-8 hours daily, this is by no means a hard thing to do, i could do 12 if i wanted, but 'IF' is the main thing here. when you get to the point where you are playing 12 hours a day its just no fun, not even close. 6-8 is still fun, you learn and yuou can almost feel yourself getting better daily. but when it comes down to it, its about having fun and playing music becasue its what makes us ALL happy.

[Caffeinated Cat]

I use a timer when I practice as well. It's important to me to know that I've practiced something for an hour, and I like to be able to subtract breaks, getting called away to work in the garden, whatever. So I practice my heavy metal lead playing for an hour, then speed mechanics for an hour, then heavy metal rhythm for an hour. The lead playing includes some improvising. If I had more time, I'd devote a whole hour just to improvising and trying to incorporate new ideas into my playing. If I had all day to practice, I'd spend the first 4 hours doing what I mentioned, then another hour on blues lead playing, an hour of blues rhythm, an hour of blues improv, and probably a second hour to speed mechanics.


If I get started writing a song, I can easliy spend all day on it. I really don't count that as practice, because I'm not doing a whole lot of playing, I'm programming the drum machine, the bass line, I'm playing the same part over and over trying to get it perfect, I'm setting punch in and punch out points on my recorder, I'm trying different parts in different orders, I'm rewriting parts, I'm setting EQ's and adjusting the levels of everything in the mix, etc. When I get into recording the solo, I have to get warmed up because I've just been playing rhythm for so long.

[Gandalv]

No one really answered Redmunk's question.

I agree with what he said initially. Last summer I went extreme-practicing and did nothing except practice guitar all day. I used a timer, which I started when I picked up the guitar at eight in the morning. Then I played for half an hour, stopped the timer, took a 5-minute break, switched exercises and started the timer again. When I had done this all day, with toilet breaks and meals in-between, the timer said I had practiced for eight hours total. But I had spent 14 hours thinking about guitar (started eight in the morning, stopped ten in the evening).

This is Redmunk's point, what you define as practice time. I am dead sure that 90% of all elite-level guitarists say they have practiced one hour when they have only really held their guitar and practiced for 50 minutes. Therefore, if you practice "12 hours a day," you only really practice ten, and that's if you have a rock hard dicipline and never pick up the phone when it rings and never go outside for a walk or take a break longer than the time it takes you to find a new exercise. And also, practicing this much in the long run isn't anatomically possible. Your body needs time to rebuild: When you practice, you break down your muscles on a physical level and force your brain to make new neural connections and improve nerves etc. When you become better, it is because your body has built your muscles and nerves up stronger and better than they were before you broke them down [this is the principle of training, all elite-level sports training is based on it]. So if you practice dead out ten hours a day, you need to spend some time (probably a day or two) each week not practicing to let your body build itself up again.

What I mean to say here is that most guitarists lie about their practice time, or at least stretch the truth a bit. As far as I am concerned, it is impossible to practice (practice: actual time spent playing the guitar) for 12 hours a day. Try it out for yourselves, I'll be really surprised if I am wrong about this.

Of course, when the standard is to stretch the story about the time you are practicing, everyone must lie to compensate. When I say I practice three hours a day, most guitarists aren't impressed. But three hours of actual practice (four 45-minute sessions) are usually classified as four or five hours of practice by most people.

[Edit: I do not agree that learning a new song or improvising doesn't count as practicing. You learn a lot of stuff there you can't learn through exercises. It's like speaking the language versus just learning grammar and words]

[Maarten]

Why is it important to exactly know how much hours you spend practicing? I've never ever sat down timing my practice time. If I practice and it goes well, I do long sessions. If I get too frustrated, I do short ones, but I try to keep a minimum time (about 1 hour a day). This approach has works for me.
And I try to spread my practicing out over the day. 10 minutes before leaving the house in the morning, a bit while cooking dinner, a longer session if I have time. And the No. 1 rule: If you're watching tv and there's nothing interesting on at first sight, turn it off and go practicing.

[RandyEllefson]

I wouldn't place too much emphasis on how long someone else practices. It's not a competition. Besides, I have a wake-up call for you:

I practiced 3-4 hours a day for a year, then moved up to 6 hours, then finally 8-10 for 3 months straight, achieving 4 year of classical guitar requirements in only 2 years to earn a degree.

I always wanted to boast. Well, here's what I get to boast about:

I developed severe tendinitis in both arms a year later, couldn't play for a year and took another 4 years to regain my playing ability. I got a second case in both arms along the way, for a grand total of 4, which is so rare that, in 8 years, I've never heard anyone else have it that bad. It ruined and changed my life.

Not to poo-poo everyone's practice schedules, but be careful.

[theguitarist]

I mean, if you practice that much, what do you really mean by it?

I feel that these type of questions should not be asked.Because it's a personal thing and you should not take on your self.Every indivisual see things from a different view with different capacity.So do things under your capacity.

Anything that's not done to a timer doesn't count.

Well forget that man.If you will be so presice about practicing and will set a timer you'll be nuts in 2 days.Set goals not timer i would say.Your hand will start repelling the fret board.Sometimes let your hand go towards the fret,it will feel good.Practice is effectfull when done with concentration and peace.So feel free to take a break rather than sitting and thinking that it's not been 5 hours.Take the slow path of development instead of winning the world in a day.
If you want to increase your concentration do yoga.You'll see the difference
:)

[Shaman_Santana]

I wouldn't place too much emphasis on how long someone else practices. It's not a competition. Besides, I have a wake-up call for you:

I practiced 3-4 hours a day for a year, then moved up to 6 hours, then finally 8-10 for 3 months straight, achieving 4 year of classical guitar requirements in only 2 years to earn a degree.

I always wanted to boast. Well, here's what I get to boast about:

I developed severe tendinitis in both arms a year later, couldn't play for a year and took another 4 years to regain my playing ability. I got a second case in both arms along the way, for a grand total of 4, which is so rare that, in 8 years, I've never heard anyone else have it that bad. It ruined and changed my life.

Not to poo-poo everyone's practice schedules, but be careful.

Sorry to hear that man.

Its kinda scary to read, because ive just started a full time music course on the guitar and im expected to practice around 5 hours a day or more.

Can you or anyone recommend ways of avoiding such things happening - i dunno, stretches or something that could help you to take care of you hands and fingers while putting them through so much work?

[RandyEllefson]

Yeah I see this concern come up a lot and have been meaning to create a whole website about this (have a lot to say after all these years).

The really scary thing is that I didn't feel any pain or discomfort the entire time I was doing the damage, so no warning signs.

My suggestion is to stretch your forearms out, and definitely start with easy material when you play (though I did that myself). Also don't do too many exercises in a row. Let's say yo have 2 hours of drills. Don't do them at once. If you'r eplaying 5 hours, split up the hard stuff in 30 minute blocks or something.

For example. 30 minutes easy songs, 30 minutes drills, 30 minutes easy stuff, 30 drills....

The trick is to let the arms rest from the difficult stuff.

[SkinnyDevil]

Another thing to remember is that your body needs both rest and proper nutrition to recover. Practice accomplishes several things, and one of those things is it works muscles.

The best way to accomplish your objectives is not necessarily to INCREASE your practice time. Arnold isn't necessarily bigger because he works harder or lifts more weight...but because he works smart. He works at prime times and then rests to allow his body to recover from the work. He eats properly and works properly and rests properly. He's also a cyborg, but more on that late (hahaha!).

That said, I'll admit to some marathon sessions. I used to practice guitar for 4-6 hours a day and vocals for near as much. I did brief stints of practicing 10-12+ hours a day, and occassionally still find days where I'll record for 6 hours and then teach for another 8, then go home and screw around with another guitar for 30-60 minutes (though this almost never happens more than once a week). I still spend 5 days a week with a guitar in my hands for at least 6 hours a day. However, I do intense practice for brief sessions (say, scales and runs for 30-45 minutes) and then switch to something completely different (like strumming or chords or just playing something musically interesting but not physically challenging for an hour). All that is interupted by teaching newbies how to play a "G" chord, of course (hahaha!). That, I'm convinced, is what saves me from the horror stories I've read and personally seen.

One last note - 2 drummers I know both were struck with severe carpal tunnel (sp?). One had surgery (bad move - he can no longer really push the limits), the other taught himself to play by moving his hands at a different angle. Took him almost a year of re-teaching himself everything, but it paid off. My suggestion is that if you have a problem or even think you see signs of a problem emerging, look at what has worked for others...and listen to people like Rand who have lived it.

[RandyEllefson]

Great post David!

Surgery doesn't work for tendinitis, in case anyone is wondering.

[Springbok]

I think there is a limit to how long you should practice, and i think it is best achieved when you practice on specific areas in short bursts. I used to practice for 10 hours straight everyday. And qwhilst my technique did reach really high standards it came to a point were i experienced mental overload, as well as the fact that my technique began to slide because i was over doing it. It felt like i couldnt think straight at all, it definitely wasnt a good thing. So too much practice can effect you in other parts of your life to, so eware :eek:

keep cool
Ivan

[SkinnyDevil]

One of the interviews I did (I think it was with Mr. Freakguitar, but I'll have to check) found a very interesting response to the issue of practice. He said he only practices about an hour a day. The reason being that, and I'll paraphrase here, guitar is the servant of MUSIC, and music is about expression. If all you do is practice, you have nothing to express. He says get out and live, then you'll have experiences to draw on and something to say.

Food for thought.

[phantom]

One of the interviews I did (I think it was with Mr. Freakguitar, but I'll have to check) found a very interesting response to the issue of practice. He said he only practices about an hour a day. The reason being that, and I'll paraphrase here, guitar is the servant of MUSIC, and music is about expression. If all you do is practice, you have nothing to express. He says get out and live, then you'll have experiences to draw on and something to say.

triple A rated :D
i mean, how true is that! just great.

by mr. freakguitar you mean mr. eklundh?

[Rizla]

He would have practiced a hell of a lot more then that when he was younger.

[SkinnyDevil]

Yes - Mattias IA Eklundh. Let me confirm that it was the interview with him, though. I have about 10 interviews in the can that have not yet been posted...but if memory serves it was Mattias who said that.

Yeah, he probably practiced 10 hours a day for a few years to achieve that level of technique. That or he was extremely focused for short bursts of time and has an excellent memory.

[Bongo Boy]

I'm a moron, but it seems Real Music is all about having cool stories to tell. At least I feel that way. Now, it's all about what constitutes a "real story" for YOU. For me, it's a story I can relate to. I turned 50 today, so a "Real Story" is totlally different than that for a 15 year-old. I don't give a rat's *** about your guitar technique...I enjoy hearing your story about how much girls can suck the freekin' life out of ya...and vice versa. Now THAT was a little joke...ya hear?

Anyway, I'd like to hear music that makes me feel the joy and the agony of all kinds of stuff. Don't really care if you spent 10 hours or 1000 hours practicing to get there--that's not my problem!

[SkinnyDevil]

Great point....and HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[phantom]

oh yeah bongo... happy birthday!

[Los Boleros]

I am Fory one years old. Half of my guitar Colleges developed tendonitis at some point. My advise is Stretch your wrists and each finger in both directions. Do it Gentley and hold it for moments. Do this before practice. Take breaks when it begins to burn. Stretch again. Stretch when you are done. Stretch when you are not eating, Stretch when you are driving. In a house, with a mouse. In a box with a fox, etc. etc.

[bruiseviolet]

I think when people say they "practice" 12 hours a day, a lot of them include things like music reading, theory, ear training, composing, etc. in that 12 hours.

But when I practice, I only count actually playing the guitar as practicing, and I don't know how anyone could do more than 5 hrs. either.

[jgregson]

Hmmm...a tricky topic! I spend virtually my whole day thinking about music in some form or another - this could be while practicing, transcribing, hearing a song on the radio, reading interviews etc. But I'll actually practice the guitar about an hour everday.
I don't measure my practice time - if I go under by 10 minutes, or over by 2 hours, it doesn't really matter. The important thing for me is that I play when I want to play - which is generally alot, thankfully. If I don't want to play, then I won't, otherwise I'll just get depressed, I won't learn anything, and it'll probably have negative repercussions on how I approach the guitar tomorrow.
I 'practice' when I want to learn something new, or when I've been inspired to improve some element of my playing - yes, this includes sight-reading, ear-training, improv. etc.
To conclude my drawn-out monologue...[cliche, but I feel it's true, and sums up my playing ethic] "It's about quality, not quantity."
Play guitar because you want to, not because a timer tells you to. Isn't that why you picked up the thing in the first place?
John.