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SolitaryShell
11-27-2002, 05:36 AM
1. What is 8 Finger tapping, and what is position playing?
2. When playing artificial harmonics, I don't know which note comes out.
The only way of knowing this is by ear?
I have read that an artificial harmonic most of the time is the note an octave higher of the one I am playing (i.e. Pressing 5th fret on the G string which gives me C, gives me a C an octave higher).
Is this true?
I play the harmonic (the picking part) on a 7-string guitar over the humbucker pickup nearner the freatboard.
3. I also use a PC tuner to see which note I am getting.
How about Natural Harmonics? How do I know which note I am playing?
4. I have read that The Major scale has 7 modes starting on the Ionian Mode, and that the NATURAL Minor Scale has 7 modes starting with Aeolian.
Why the modes of the Harmonic Minor and Melodic Minor have also 7 modes, but instead of being called Ionian, Dorian, etc... are called just 1rst mode, 2nd mode, etc...? Or so I read...
5. Where I can find more "types" of scales, like the "BLUES", CHINESE, JAPANESE, ARABIC, EGYPTIAN scales?

EricV
11-27-2002, 11:29 AM
Hi there,

lotsa questions...


Originally posted by SolitaryShell
1. What is 8 Finger tapping, and what is position playing?
8 Finger Tapping is a technique / style where you tap with 4 fingers of the left hand and four fingers of the right hand, so youīre pretty much using all your fingers ( you can even add thumbs ). That way, you can play really fast stuff, very wide intervals, some quite unusual chords and much more.
It takes a long time to develop this, but it might be worth the effort. Some players create some amazing effects with that, i.e. Jennifer Batten, GIT-instructor TJ Helmerich and Stanley Jordan.
Position playing means playing in one position ( i.e. one scale pattern ), so youīre playing vertically instead of along the string...



2. When playing artificial harmonics, I don't know which note comes out.
The only way of knowing this is by ear?
Pretty much. You can experiment with picking in different positions and then checking by ear or with a tuner which pitch you generate. Then you could memorize that.
I often donīt think about which pitch Iīll generate when I do an artificial harmonic, itīs kinda random.


I have read that an artificial harmonic most of the time is the note an octave higher of the one I am playing (i.e. Pressing 5th fret on the G string which gives me C, gives me a C an octave higher).
Is this true?
Depends on where you pick, really. See, the natural harmonics work best at frets 24, 19, 12, 9, 7 and 5. ( the one at 24 is identical to the one at the 5th fret, the one at the 19th fret is identical to the one at the 7th fret )
Artificial harmonics can be generated at those positions too.
So when you i.e. fret the note at the third fret of a string, you can generate an artificial harmonic 5, 7, 9 or 12 frets above that.
I wouldnīt say that most of the time, itīs the one an octave higher, really...


I play the harmonic (the picking part) on a 7-string guitar over the humbucker pickup nearner the freatboard.
Of course you noticed that the pitch of the harmonic changes drastically if you change the picking position only a bit, right ?



How about Natural Harmonics? How do I know which note I am playing?

Does this help: LINK (http://www.acousticguitar.com/lessons/harmonics/1.shtml) ?


Why the modes of the Harmonic Minor and Melodic Minor have also 7 modes, but instead of being called Ionian, Dorian, etc... are called just 1rst mode, 2nd mode, etc...?
Yes, Harmonic Minor and Melodic Minor have their modes, too...
People refer to them sometimes as "HM1", "HM2" etc.

But actually, this is how they look:
Melodic Minor:
1-2-b3-4-5-6-7
Now, if we start from the second note of that, we get:
1-b2-b3-4-5-6-b7
That scale would be something like "Dorian b2"
The next mode of Melodic Minor, starting from the 3rd note / scale degree:
1-2-3-#4-#5-6-7
That could be defined as a Lydian Augmented scale.

Melodic Minor and its modes:
Melodic Minor
Dorian b2 ( MM 2 )
Lydian Augmented ( MM3 )
Lydian Dominant ( MM4 )
Hindu ( MM5 )
Locrian with a major sec. ( MM6 )
Super Locrian ( MM7 )

Harmonic Minor and its modes:
Harmonic Minor
Locrian with a natural 6 ( HM2 )
Ionian #5 ( HM3 )
Dorian #4 ( HM4 )
Phrygian w/ maj third ( HM5 )
Lydian #2 ( HM6 )
Alt b7 ( HM7 )

Does this answer that question ?


5. Where I can find more "types" of scales, like the "BLUES", CHINESE, JAPANESE, ARABIC, EGYPTIAN scales?

Either do a websearch with a search engine like Google, or, if you want to purchase a book with a compendium of scales, Iīd recommend to get Adam Kadmonīs "The Guitar Grimoire - Sclaes & Modes )
But to give you a starting point:
Japanese Pentatonic: 1-b2-4-5-b6
Also try Hirojoshi: 1-2-b3-5-b6
Chinese Pentatonic: 1-3-#4-5-7

If you like those kinda scales, hereīs more than you can eat:
Eastern Scales Compendium (http://www.justchords.com/docs/mds_asp.txt) :)
Hope I was able to help
Eric

szulc
11-27-2002, 12:35 PM
When you generate harmonics on any string, you are creating a node (a spot that doesen't vibrate) this causes the string to be divided into some multiple of 2 or 3 sections ( 1/2,1/3,1/4,1/8,1/6 or 2/3 or 3/8) Each time you divide the string in half the pitch is raised 1 octave this is true whether or not you are actually fretting the note or just touching the string to create a node. When you divide the string into thirds you get the fifth if you fret the note and and octave plus a fifthe when you just touch the string to create a node. So in practice you can create a node with the fleshy part of your thumb right atfer you pick a downstroke.
Where you do this in relation to the note being fretted will determine what harmonic is created. If you divide the string (from your fretted note to the bridge) in half it will be the octave. This will always be equivalent to 12 frets above your fretted note. If you divide the distance from your fretted note to the bridge in Quarters (1/4) you will get two octaves above your fretted note. This will always be 5 frets above your fretted note or the equal distance from the bridge. When you divide the string by 1/3 from your fretted note to the bridge, you will get the octave plus a fifth. This will always be 7 frets above your fretted note or the equivalent distance from the bridge. If you divide the string into 1/5ths you will get two octaves plus a third. This will always be a little less than 4 frets above your fretted note or the equivalent distance from the bridge (in this case it can be some multiple of this distance). Your room for error decreases nearer the bridge or fretted note (or nut) because your finger has a finite size and the spot you are trying to hit is getting closer to other harmoinic spots.

EricV
11-27-2002, 01:02 PM
Perfect explanation, James !

Eric

SolitaryShell
11-29-2002, 07:07 AM
Wow! Thanks a lot for the answers. They really helped me.
The link about HARMONICS also helped me.
Is there any exercises of 8 finger tapping which I can practice that you can point me to?
You really helped, thanks again.

szulc helped me too. :) Thanks szulc!!!

EricV
11-29-2002, 01:47 PM
Hi there,

well I am actually thinking about and preparing a big introduction to all the basic and advanced tapping stuff. Donīt wanna give away too much info, but itīll be available at ibreathe once itīs done.

But, as a basic introduction:
8 finger tapping means, using 4 fingers of the l.h. and 4 fingers of the r.h. to tap. It means using them equally ( = you can use your middle finger and your pinkie equally, as an example ), rather than using all 8 fingers in every lick.
Here are some basic licks and exercises... you can use 8 finger tapping on one string, creating long lines and big intervals on it, or you can use it on several adjacent or non-adjacent strings.

No.1 shows a basic chromatic exercise. Hammer on the A with your left hand, 1st finger, then hammer on the next 3 with your other fingers of the r.h.
Then, tap the E ( 12th fret ) with your index finger, r.h. Next, tap the F ( middle finger ), F# ( ring finger ) and G ( pinkie ).

No 2. shows a lick in A Minor. Hammer on th A, next hammer on the B and C, then tap the E with your index finger ( I added red numbers to indicate which finger to use ), then tap the F, pull of to the E ( still fretted by your first finger, r.h. ), or retap it instead, go back down, and repeat.
You can variate this exercise by using other finger combinations ( index- and pinkie, or index and ring finger etc. )

No.3 is tough. Itīs an ascending A Major scale ( I left out the D though ). A, B and C are hammered on, the next 4 notes are tapped with all four fingers of the right hand.
This requires some stretch, which is tough, and also, you will notice that the tap with your pinkie ( all other fingers remain in place, by the way ! ) is really hard to execute. It might take some practise to get the pinkie to tap at equal volume and speed as the others. Variate this.

No4 is an exercise that I learned from Dave Celentano. Its played on the E- and G-string. The notes are from an Aminor Arp ( A-C-E ).
Thi is how to play it ( although the TAB should be self-explantory due to the r.h.-finger indicators ): Tap on the C at the 20th fret with your r.h. middle finger, then pull off to the E which you fret with your left hand.
Next, tap the A with your r.h. middle finger, again pull off to E. And then, tap the C on the G-String with your r.h. index finger and pull off to A which also is fretted with your left hand.
This sounds pretty cool, especially if you manage to get it up to speed and repeat it.
You could of course try to play the taps with one r.h.-finger only, but itīs way more economical and FASTER if you use three fingers of the right hand.

Anyway, this is just meant as a VERY basic introduction, or an overview over what kind of stuff you can do. As I said, Iīm working on something, and youīll find it at ibreathe once its done.
Hope this helps
Eric

BTW, check out Jennifer Battenīs "Above Below And Beyond" for some awesome 8finger-tapping, incl. her version of Rimsky Korsakovīs "Flight Of The Bumblebee" played with that technique.

SolitaryShell
11-30-2002, 04:38 PM
Thanks again for this. This is VERY helpful, since you explain as I think it should be the whole exercise (i.e. You use your pinky finger to do this, use your middle finger of r.h. to do that).
Excellent!

By they way, at example number one the first hammer-ons are done with the Left Hand, right? Because you wrote down to be done with the r.h., and then the other hammer-ons again with the r.h.

I can't wait to read that future Tapping course of yours.

Sorry if I repeat myself but... THANKS!!! :)

EricV
11-30-2002, 07:10 PM
Hi there,

youīre welcome !
And yes, you are right, I meant the left hand ( I must have mixed that up... I guess I got the hands mixed up... hopefully that wonīt happen when I play :) )
Thanks, I corrected it
Warm regards
Eric

szulc
12-04-2002, 02:41 AM
what is position playing

This is when you are limiting your left hand to one hands reach.
So basically playing within a five fret region an example 1st-5th fret.
Technically this would be the first four frets and you would have to stretch (out of Position) to reach the 5th fret.
But Position playing is where you do this but it can be any contiguous five frets.

RobA
12-08-2002, 04:49 PM
Check out Mattias IA Eklundh's site at freakguitar (http://www.freakguitar.com)
He's the guitar player in Freak Kitchen. There are some exotic scales and stuff on there. He also explains how he gets his crazy harmonics. Worth checking out.

SolitaryShell
12-09-2002, 03:50 AM
I was looking for this site long time ago! Thanks for the link! I already visited this page, but forgot where! :)

Chim_Chim
12-09-2002, 10:56 PM
What ?

A thread about "8 finger tapping" and not one mention of Jeff Watson ?

I'm appalled ! (just kidding,btw)

Chim_Chim
12-11-2002, 09:38 PM
But seriously,I believe Stanley Jordan was first with the chord tapping and then Jeff Watson was doing linear 8 notes per string type licks and then later Jennifer Batten combined the two approaches.

EricV
12-11-2002, 09:44 PM
I dunno whether Batten or Watson was first, but Jennifer Batten definitely got it from Dave Celentano and Steve Lynch, who both were inspired from Eddie Van Halen and took his likcs a step further, using more than one finger of the right hand.
Stanley really based his playing on the technique, while Batten, Watson and the others do some of the regular playing, too...

Eric

Chim_Chim
12-11-2002, 10:48 PM
Hello Eric,

Jeff was the first I heard to do the 8 finger technique but I'm sure you know much more about this than I do.EVH was undoubtedly the inspiration for all such experimentation.Stanley Jordan was more than likely using all four,possibly all five of his right hand(maybe even the left hand too?) to do his incredible chordal tapping to tap out polychordal,chord melody arrangements etc.
What Jeff was doing was far more basic IMHO,although still takes alot of practice to do (doesn't everything? = ) ) Jeff on the song "You Can Still Rock In America" does this 8 finger lick that I equate to doing "the wave" at a sporting event.I think he was just doing a cool speed lick whereas Jennifer Batten put alot more thought into the concept and really based her entire style around two handed playing,using tapping for both comping and melody.I'm sure you are right though,he probably copped the idea from these guys (and the others you mention).I'm just gonna take your word for it because you're mentioning players I've never even heard of.There's so much to explore on the guitar and this whole area is certainly ineresting and worth exploring. Maybe Jeff is worth mentioning here or maybe he is not?

take care,

Chim_Chim

Chim_Chim
12-11-2002, 10:51 PM
Ohhh Steve Lynch..I have heard of him (Autograph)? Now there's a forgotten player? You are right he was doing some interesting things and very EVH inspired.Cool !

bye for now,

Chim

Wizbit81
01-04-2003, 10:49 PM
Hi guys! I'm dead interested in eight finger tapping at the moment! I heard than Ron Thal did an instructional tape about it for Shrapnel University, (lol) called Octodigital but I can't find it anywhere! If anyone has a copy please let me know, and if anyone wants to do an article or series of lessons on it I for one would read it!!!
Thanks,
Chris.
Oh yeah and if anyone has any other material on the subject please could they post it, Cheers!

EricV
01-04-2003, 11:47 PM
Hi there,

just to let you know, I am planning on doing a special feature about tapping ( 8 finger and all the other stuff ) for ibreathe soon, so stay tuned...


Hope this helps
Eric

Wizbit81
01-05-2003, 07:01 PM
Thanks Eric, much appreciated. Also, could you tell me what u think is a good speed to play that Paul Gilbert exercise at the end of ur posts is? I.e. what should I aim for over time.

EricV
01-05-2003, 07:49 PM
Tough to say...
This is a picking exercise, meant to help you with your synchronisation and alternate picking. I usually doubt the value of measuring something like that by bpm.
My advice would be to use it with a metronome and speed it up, making sure youīre playing with accuracy. Use that lick in combination with other exercises. It should help you to develop your alternate picking.
Try to push your limits a bit from time to time.
That, to me, is a more valuable approach than to go by bpm... itīs up to you, see how far you can speed it up.
Hope this helps
Eric

Wizbit81
01-05-2003, 08:17 PM
Thanks man, i never used to pick those exercises right until recently. I used to use inside the string picking for all those P.G. exercises until one day I noticed the jump over the high e. I tried it and rejected it as uneconomical but saw the value recently whereby I realised economy picking for me was not as fast as alternate picking on certain licks, mainly 3-note per string patterns actually. So yeah, P.G. does that exercise and 2 variations of it at the beginning of his video and they've really helped my picking over the last few months. I just wanted to know a bpm that represents pretty fast as something to aim at as it seems different and easier than playing a lick to me. Not that I'll get near Gilbert or Petruci, (on Rock Discipline he does that sort of thing in sextuplets at about 190!!!)

szulc
01-05-2003, 08:34 PM
What is a good BPM?
How about faster than yesterday?
The whole point here is anyone else's BPM is meaningless to you.
The only thing that matters is how fast you didi it yesterday.