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SolitaryShell
12-03-2002, 01:28 AM
Is a great article.
And is really cool to see more than chord and scales theory in here.

Just to add a commentary, when I am lost in NOW, and then go back to the mundane world, I feel AMAZING, like have reached the NIRVANA point. It feels just calm with mix of extasis.

And now, thanks to Jamey, I can explain to myself why this was happening before.

Be well!!

Oakleaf
12-03-2002, 03:54 AM
i gave it five stars! truely an inspiring work. most meaningful thing i've read on the internet yet!

Bongo Boy
12-03-2002, 07:15 AM
You know, I've just reached the Nirvana Point myself. But maybe without the extasis...a little bit o' the old euphoria and even a mystic vision or two, but no extasis as of yet. Now, last week it was the cosmic kharma, big time. But that's another story altogether. :)

But impertinence aside, what Jamey says reminds me of how my Zen master, Jerry, said it,"When you're washing dishes, wash dishes." What he meant was, don't be washing your dishes and wishing you weren't, or washing your dishes and yet really thinking about getting into the car to go to work. When the dishes are done and you're getting into the car to go to work, THEN is the time to be getting into the car to go to work.

This relates also to what the shaman-hero of Castenada's The Teachings of Don Juan had to say so often--eliminate the internal dialog that goes on in your head, and you can do so much more. It's an appealing idea that's hard to do. But...as we all know, there is no 'try', only 'do' or 'don't do'.

JonR
12-03-2002, 03:16 PM
IMO this comes down to a pretty simple observation: Music is an Art of Time. It mediates time. It makes us contemplate time. It plays with our perceptions of time, with our short-term memory, holding us in the present moment between the immediate past and future.

It's not just the way music is organised into rhythms, measures and sections. Even a musical note is a vibration, a set of pulses; it's simply that their rhythm is too fast for us to perceive the individual beats.

Harmony uses our sense of time, by making us focus on the present moment, the present chord, and asking us: what - based on what has happened so far - do you think will happen next?
It sets up expectations, by laying out a key, and then exploring the tensions available in that key, or in nearby keys. Good composing teases our expectations, taking melodies or chord sequences that extra step, or sidestepping, even making jokes about time.
But we always work our way back to "home".
Harmonic music is a narrative; it tells a story, from statement of theme, through conflict to resolution.
Not surprisingly it reached its zenith during the classical era, which marked the industrial revolution, when society need to tell itself stories about mankind, and its conflict with, and domination over, nature.
In the past century, as culture has become more democratic, more spread out and interconnected, less authoritarian, more confident, we've seen a growth in less structured, more open-ended music. We've developed a taste for unresolved cadences, for the trance-like grooves and modal inflections of blues, jazz and various folk musics.

In its time-based nature, music has something in common with theatre and film. But music works purely in sound, using time markers much more clearly and fundamentally than either theatre of film.

Music is the only art with the capacity to suspend us in time. That is its fundamental game.
Even music which is not harmonic (like that of most of the rest of the world) uses melody and rhythm, in ways where awareness of time is crucial to their appreciation.

When playing or listening to music, we enter the present moment, and handle it, in a way we may never do outside of music. (Many eastern religions promote the same activity through meditation. But you only need music to do it.)

In other words, while Jamey Andreas is right, music itself gives us a head start in the process of "losing ourselves", stepping outside the chaotic mystery of reality and stepping inside the moment, to contemplate a well-ordered image of time.
That's what music's for in the first place.

IMHO anyway :-)

JonR

Bongo Boy
12-03-2002, 03:50 PM
Nicely put...that gives me a LOT to think about. Oh, and welcome to iBreathe JonR.

badgas
12-03-2002, 06:53 PM
I was poking around this site yesterday and found that article too.
I'll be honest and say it was a bit over my head, but I understand what he was saying.
Probably if I do as Bongo gave reference to, undo the clutter in the mind, I'd be a bit more open to it.

It was a good article and JonR's post does give one something to think about.

szulc
12-04-2002, 12:48 AM
I believe that the state of timelessness is as close to Nirvana as one can get. I have spoken about this in these forums before.
When I was playing for a living, I would frequently have experiances where I would be panicing because I couldn't remember what to play or sing next and was lost in the moment but then the AUTOPILOT would take over and the words or licks would just flow out with a great sense of relief. It is a 'times' like this when your causual creation mechanism is suspended, this is what create the sensation of timelessness,. What is really happening is you are no longer spending your precious brain power creating the illusion of time. You are busy enjoying and 'being'. This feeling is way better than drugs and sex, I miss this but I still get it when I am being cretive and writing or playing, or otherwise being entertained.

SolitaryShell
12-04-2002, 04:36 AM
This feeling is way better than drugs and sex, I miss this but I still get it when I am being cretive and writing or playing, or otherwise being entertained.
Well put szulc!
IT IS BETTER THAN DRUGS AND SEX INDEED! (WEll, I can't really tell, since I have never done drugs)


You know, I've just reached the Nirvana Point myself. But maybe without the extasis...a little bit o' the old euphoria and even a mystic vision or two, but no extasis as of yet. Now, last week it was the cosmic kharma, big time. But that's another story altogether.

I liked your commentary Bongo Boy too!

I think this relates to the nike legend "JUST DO IT". Don't you think?

szulc
12-04-2002, 04:40 AM
Listen for the spaces between the sound........

Torin
12-04-2002, 08:03 PM
Open your eyes as wide as they will go. No, really.
"Do not compare yourself to others - you may become vain or bitter" Max Ehrmann.
You know that you belong in this world, else why are you here?
So. Take a deep, deep breath. The deepest you can. I cannot emphasise this enough. Exhale slowly, slowly. As slow as you can. Repeat as many times as necessary. At least three...
Now. Open your eyes wide again, keep them wide open. Open your ears. Disfocus your gaze and try to look at everything at once. Equally. At least attempt it for your own benefit.
Listen to every nuance, sound, distraction and accept it as part of nature or life on this planet. Understand that it is you.
And I say you because whatever you see, hear, feel, taste, touch or believe, in the moment.... why what else could it be but you? And you it.