Scale Postion Numbering!

[Voodoo-Child]

I know my Scales very well, but there is one thing that puzzles me, how are the differant patterns numbered?

For example, I know all 5 positions of the Major Scale, but if someone said to me play the Major Scale in Third Position, I wouldn't have a clue.

So someone please tell me how the differant patterns are numbered!!! :confused:

[Malcolm]

Now I have seen the numbering done several ways --- Click here for the way I learned it (http://www.guitarstuff.com/lessons/majscale/majscale.html)

Scale Position One is the same pattern as the Ionian mode or E shape
Scale Position Two is the same pattern as the Dorian mode or D shape
Scale Position Three is the same pattern as the Phrygian mode or C shape
Scale Position Four is the same pattern as the Mixolydian mode or A shape
Scale Position Five is the same pattern as the Aeolian mode or G shape.

[silent-storm]

First off I don't think anyone is going to necessarily ask you that question, unless you are in an exam at school or an audition, but even then it doesn't really matter because they will know you might not be working with the same system of looking at scales as they do. There is no universal right or wrong way to do it.

It really comes down to how you want to visualize the fretboard. I think in 7 different positions and the numbers correlate with where I start the scale. So if we're in the key of F Major, position 1 would have the root on the 6th string, 1st fret and all notes will be either on or above the 1st fret. Position 2 has the root on the 4th string, 3rd fret with all notes above the 3rd fret. Position 3 - Root on 5th string 8th fret, all notes on or below the 8th fret. Position 4 - root on 5th string 8th fret, combination of notes below or above 8th fret. Position 5 - same as above, but all notes on or above the 8th fret. Position 6 - Root on 6th string 13th fret all notes on or below the 13th fret. Position 7 - same as above but the notes are a combination of above and below the 13th fret. Of course there will be one or two notes that don't quite follow this exactly, but like you said, you already know your patterns so that doesn't matter.

The only thing I do differently from most people (or atleast this is what I have found) is that the way I think of it, position 1 is always 6th string 1st fret for any F type scale, regardless of what key or mode I might be in. So my scale patterns change for each mode. 1st position F dorian has the same starting point as 1st position F lydian, or F alt dominant, or whatever. I found this gave me a clearer picture of each individual mode, rather than a major scale made up of 7 different modes. I have also found that when I started learning more obscure scales I was able to learn them as scales within themselves and not as part of another scale starting on a different note, which was kinda useful, but involved a bit more memorization.

Hope that might help, cuz it didn't make too much sense while I was writing it.

[aaeolean]

Aren't there at least 7 positions for the major scale.....come to think of it....aren't there lots more?

I'm saying this because there are 2 main patterns.....3 note per string patterns and the caged patterns. This gives me at least 14 patterns......and there's more....

BEN

[Chim_Chim]

position refers to where your first finger is at - a position in position
playing utilizes one finger per fret and includes reaching out out of position
above or below by one fret with either your index or pinky

a "postion" spans 4 frets,well 6 frets in total because
you can reach a fret higher with your pinky or a fret lower
with your index finger if necessary(and it is sometimes)

2nd position

low E:|--x--|--1--|--2--|--3--|--4--|--x--|
|
2nd
position(1st finger on the 2nd fret)
^If your scale pattern started with your 2nd,3rd or 4th finger
in the example above you'd still be in the 2nd position because
that is where your index finger would fall in the pattern
(on the 2nd fret)

1 = index finger
2 = middle finger
3 = ring finger
4 = pinky
x = reach this note by reaching out of position with your 1st or 4th fingerscale patterns can be played in any position

[Voodoo-Child]

Thanks Guys, that really helps! ;)

[VidKid]

I'm not sure if this answers your question, but I use this naming structure to refer to the various fingerings of scales.

Depending which finger is lead (1, 2 or 4) and what string is the root (6th, 5th or 4th), the labels are:

Root on 6th:
6-1 ("Six One Major scale"=Root on the 6th string starting with the 1st finger)
6-2
6-4
Root on 5th:
5-1
5-2
5-4
Root on 4th:
"inside" scale which is similar to the 6-1

There are scales which start with the 3rd finger, but they seem to be smilar to 6-4 or 6-2 fingerings which I don't use them that often. I also draw a circle around the string number to designate the string vs. the fingering.

I hope this helps,
VidKid

[Voodoo-Child]

I'm not sure if this answers your question, but I use this naming structure to refer to the various fingerings of scales.

Depending which finger is lead (1, 2 or 4) and what string is the root (6th, 5th or 4th), the labels are:

Root on 6th:
6-1 ("Six One Major scale"=Root on the 6th string starting with the 1st finger)
6-2
6-4
Root on 5th:
5-1
5-2
5-4
Root on 4th:
"inside" scale which is similar to the 6-1

There are scales which start with the 3rd finger, but they seem to be smilar to 6-4 or 6-2 fingerings which I don't use them that often. I also draw a circle around the string number to designate the string vs. the fingering.

I hope this helps,
VidKid
Yeah that is a Cool Method!;)

[KirkLorange]

I know this will sound stupid to many of you, but why does anyone want to play the major scale?

[VidKid]

Kirk,

The labeling system can be use for Dorian, Harmonic, Melodic, or whatever scale your using. Ex. 6-1 Mi Pent, 6-4 Har, 5-1 Dorian etc. I think Berklee school uses this system and I learned it from my teacher, some time ago. This system will cover all positions on the fretboard, states which finger to start and where to reference the root. I use it for arpeggios and position playing also.

Let's say, ii7-V7-I in the key of G, you can say play a 6-1 dorian, 5-2 Mixolydian/Dom9th arp, then 6-2 or 6-1 major scale/arp. I think it's easier than saying 5th position dorian, 4th postion Mixolydian, then 2nd position G scale, if you know what I mean.

I've never really heard of any official "standard" way of labeling. Everybody seems to have their own labeing system.

VidKid

[KirkLorange]

Thanks VidKid ... I was being silly really ... I do know my scales, I just never play them.

I once posted a little lesson at my site demonstrating a neat exercise which helps with scales and their positions. Go to:

http://www.thatllteachyou.com/stretch2.html

All the best,

Kirk

[VidKid]

No problem Kirk, I'm new to this site and don't know what level everybody's at. I checked out yur site and it has a lot of good info for everybody. The AniGif pics and sound file are great. Everybody should check it out.

VidKid

[KirkLorange]

Thanks VidKid ... check out http://www.guitarforbeginners.com (http://www.guitarforbeginners.com/) too. That's a site I've been working on for years now.

Kirk