Prblems with lead singers girlfriend may break band up

[frenzy1971]

I just joined a solid working band. The singer is hands-down the best I have ever heard for classic rock, he is known as the best in town, and has no ego about it.
The problem is this- He is madly in love with a gal he is about to marry, madly enough that he lets her sing in about 3/4 of our show, where she sings almost 1/3 by herself, and she is awful.
Our patrons leave. The owners complain. The last several shows we have done have been to empty bars. We are losing gigs.
We have tried intervention, well the band has, I'm still too new, so I keep quiet.
She gets real defensive and blames it on not being able to hear, which we fixed this weekend, and granted she sounds a little better, but people come to see her boyfriend sing, he is our draw. The worst part is, he seems to be so in love with her that he can't see tha damage it is doing to the band and our reputation. He thinks she sounds good. He gets upset when people say she doesn't and both of them refuse to accept anyones negative opinion. If fact, when the band tried to tell the two that she sould sing less, it got turned around and the band pretty much got told that she would be singing more, like half the set, and on songs she picks, in fact she picks all the songs we add. She controls the set lists, and it's gotten where the band (excluding me) no longer have fun or even look like they are having fun playing.
If they boot the lady, we will lose our star attraction. And if we don't, we are not gonna be gigging anywhere for money. (we were able to name our price)
Anyone been through anything like this? :confused:

[Caffeinated Cat]

You could get a bunch of friends of the band members (people the singer doesn't know) to come to a gig. When the guy is singing they should cheer loudly. As soon as the girl starts singing, they should boo loudly and yell "You suck!!!" at the top of their lungs. If she's as bad as you say, the rest of the audience will probably join in.

Maybe that will shatter her self esteem and she won't want to sing any more.

Just a thought. Pretty crappy situation. Luckily you haven't got too much time invested in it.

[frenzy1971]

ROFL!!!
If we do that we'll have to make sure it won't be a place we'll miss gigging at. We played a gig a couple of weeks ago (big private party) where a girl in the bathroom told the girl singer she sucked and should stay off of the stage. The singers boyfriend found out about it and wanted to smack her down! Yikes! He gets enraged. If someone yelled she sucked i think the fight would be on. Talk about love blinders and earmuffs. :eek:

[rmuscat]

frenzy ...

i gave your issue some thought. It's a tough situation.

First things first. I think a partial fault of the situation is the of each of the band's member.

Was this girl auditioned objectively? Who decided she is fit for the band? Who decided you need another vocalist? Was the decision taken in the same way all other decision taken?

That said. Here's what i would do.
- I'd talk to all my band mates, see if i have their backing in the opinion that she can't sing anymore with the band.

- That done, you'd all talk to your main singer, face to face without her prescence. Emphasize more what you all noticed in the gigs than what you think is true initially. So if you notice that the turnout of the crowd is going down, throw it in his face.... get his opinion and see what he thinks and why.

- If you can't just get him to ask her to stop, help her out constructively. Maybe with some help she'd turn out much better. And she'll learn by herself how bad she was, or her limitations.

Tough part coming
If you still don't manage. Chuck her out. If the singer doesn't agree. Chuck him out too, I'd rather play all my life for a crowd of 5 people and they go out saying these guys are good. Rather then play for a crowd of 4,000,000 and they say how much their singer sucks.
You still have a name (yet), and you can get the second best singer in town or audition an undiscovered good one.

If you still can't manage, start looking for a new band or live up to it or do a solo album!.

hope that helps :)

[phantom]

frenzy,

if the whole band thinks that the situation sucks, and if there is no way to get the good singers head straight, he has to leave. or the whole band leaves the singer..same result.
he will maybe gig as a duo and see that he won't get booked with the bad lady and then get back to normal again, or you are going to find another singer.
there is no way that one person should be able to torture a whole band.
i'd draw consequences, cause as you said it is about playing gigs and makind a vertain amount of money. if there is something that spoils the business you have to isolate it. even if you do a bit less business cause your "attraction" is missing it will pay of long term. if you are a good band, you will find a good singer again.
just my 2 € cents.

i learned something in my mafia days:
if you can't solve a problem, you have to get rid of it. :rolleyes: ;)

[frenzy1971]

Thanks for the good advice. Last night and went and hung out at the bar we played this previous weekend and hung out with the owner. Everytime my bands name was mentioned the staff and present customers shook their heads. I pretty much got confirmation othat the female singer is why the crowds don't stay. After 3 hours of my band getting bashed, I went home and called the main guy in the band and related to him all the things that were said. He wants to put little cards out when we play next and thinks that if the female singers gets a bunch of cards that say she sucks it may help and not cause hostility towards the band. At least he has admitted that he is prepared to seek out a new lead singer if he has to.
And as far as how she got in, She was with him for day one, and he just started letting her sing, and when the band wasn't sure, he pretty much said she sings too or I don't.

[Zarathustra]

Bad Yoko.

[shinkyo00]

Thanks for the good advice. Last night and went and hung out at the bar we played this previous weekend and hung out with the owner. Everytime my bands name was mentioned the staff and present customers shook their heads. I pretty much got confirmation othat the female singer is why the crowds don't stay. After 3 hours of my band getting bashed, I went home and called the main guy in the band and related to him all the things that were said. He wants to put little cards out when we play next and thinks that if the female singers gets a bunch of cards that say she sucks it may help and not cause hostility towards the band. At least he has admitted that he is prepared to seek out a new lead singer if he has to.
And as far as how she got in, She was with him for day one, and he just started letting her sing, and when the band wasn't sure, he pretty much said she sings too or I don't.

hes blinded by infatuation and hes pushing it!

[fortymile]

this is like a ready-made movie plot (or subplot.) it's hard to believe this could really happen, but i hope you solve it. i sure would love to hear her sing. you should post an mp3.

[Sir Speedy]

This is how it works . Scince every one agrees , start getting together and auditioning other singers , if the Singer has Practice space and you don't goto the studio . Auditioning people is Fun , isn't it ?

You know what ? thinking back to it , i wish my cover band ,Video taped all the auditions, for drummers and singers .Some of the characters you get , just don't exist outside of the Music world.

Some people will just demand an answer right there , like "Am i in???" "I drove 100 miles to get here!" you get people who say "I don't know any songs on the list "...when your playing every song known to man , what are you going to do ? play jingle bells ? " Okay Jingle Bells . Who gets to Solo" :cool:

so my advice is put an add out and audition , say, 10 or 20 people . it's a waiting game .

[frenzy1971]

Well we had it out kind of. The singer and g/f showed up to practoce PEEVED OFF at our bass player for telling the girl like i posted that we lost a gig on new years because she sung flat. We had to endure almost and hour of crying drama and mad-ready-to-fight-or-quit boyfriend with his woman saying things like," I had a fever, I can't hear myself, I'm new to singing on stage, blahblahblah." And I was thinking, "and what of that will make someone in the audience stop at the door and come back in to listen more? What of that will make the bar owner hire us back after we emptied his normally hopping club? It came down to- if we have to critisize her we either have to do it with kid gloves or tell her boyfriend in private and he'll think of a tactful way to tell her. Doesn't sound that professional. Sounds like she should practice PRIOR to gigs hehe.
Anyway, the beef got squashed, and the rest of the band and I decided prior to the singers arrival that we would see how our 2 remaining previously booked shows go. We have one tomorrow, and one next sat. If the crowd runs we she starts singing, they both go. I would like to thank everyone for their thoughts, consideration, and advice. I am in 2 bands and new to the whole band thing and this site has been a blessing as a sounding board and mentor for questions or problems that I would be hesitant to ask someone I am involved with. Thanks guys. :)

Oh and as far as auditioning- I live in a medium size town in a specific genre of music. If we put an ad out we might, MIGHT get 3 calls. And we have the hands=down best guy in town, that's why he's not gone yet.

[fortymile]

if the town is that small, and you ditch him, and if you guys are good, he might realize you were right and come back to you sans girlfriend.

you should record your show and post an mp3 of her here so we can judge. :)

[frenzy1971]

he won't come back without her. She owns him. Neither have ANY family, they've been together 6 years. He was in the hottest band in town for 5 years and they broke up when his g/f decided she was going to sing with them and they heard her. He joined another and they broke up for the same reason.
He could prolly find another decent band. There are alot of band here in Amarillo, just not that many GREAT singers, In fact he's the only one I've heard I'd call great. I'm not bad, (I'm lead singer in my other band), but I don't have the dirt, I'm all about the clean and high, he's semi-high, low and very gritty.
I'll see what i can do about getting her on here. Do I have to find a host for the mp3 or can I put it on here?

[rmuscat]

you can attach files check below the post window when you're typing a on the board. you've got "manage attachments" there's a limit quote for size but i think a short low bit rate quality mp3 will fit.

from the good old show and tell forum days :)

[Sir Speedy]

Singer shortage , hunh . Need the dirt .Call Axl , he's not doin' nothin ' :D

Seriously, i've been to Texas I find it hard to believe there's a shortage of anything !

[frenzy1971]

Well we did the show this Saturday, and she did VERY well. In fact we played to a packed house with people that stayed till close, singing hooting, hollering and dancing. It was unbelievable! The crowd liked her, she had pulled some of her own songs and replaced them with some that fit her voice. Best gig ever. We got asked back for new years and were able to jack our price up too. :P
Our next show is not this weekend but the next, we play two nights in another city. We'll see how she does.

[Wylde fan]

Dude, that's really wierd. Maybe it's cause she really couldn't hear herself or something...Like I said, wierd.

[oRg]

You should tell the singer that your main priority is solely focused on the band and not set to appease the whims of a wannabe singer. Tell him she leaves or they both leave. Be very firm and tell him that you don't mean to be harsh but this is what it's come to. Tell him that you'd rather have a second rate singer and still get gigs than deal with the horrendous vocals. I kinda know what your're going through. Hope this helps.

[frenzy1971]

We're gonna see how she does in the out-of-town gig, and New Years if we get to play. (scheduling). If she doesn't do as well as she did this weekend and runs our crowd off, she will go, with the frontman. They are a package deal. She has said this is like starting over fresh now that she can hear, so we'll see. But if she keeps on like she did this weekend it's all good. That was an amazing night.

[fortymile]

wow that is crazy that she could transform so.

[Los Boleros]

I am gonna take a shot in the dark on this one but, is he and she the only singers in the band? It is quite possible the the band is just too loud for her. Ive seen it many times where the mans voice is just alot stronger so he can hear himself but she can't. If the band learns how to play alot softer, then the band opens the door for alot of very talented singers to jump in and sing. You have to be a singer to understand what I am talking about. I've seen great female singers that cannot play in a loud situation. Playing at alot lower volume can only help the over-all sound of the band. Now I don't know what your situation is like but in Rock 99.9 percent of the bands play loud. It's the few bands that can play soft that charge the Big Bucks and people will pay for that.:)

[frenzy1971]

The bands volume comes up to match the drums, of which we only mike the kick. We were using 500 watt peavey speakers as monitors, and the main columns were well out front of the singers, she was definately able to hear. Prior to her being able to hear herself we were using small size nady monitors. We put a priority on pumping some good sound to her so she can hear. I got some feedback yesterday about our gig and this time they weren't complaining about her singing, it was her presence now. They said she looked like a high maintainence drama queen who was not having fun, not wooing the audience, and being way to busy watching her boyfriend and making sure he wasn't flirting. LOL! She was on stage throughout the whole gig, singing backup for him and the occasional one of hers.

[ReinierK]

It kindof reminds me of my first band practice ever...
Sometimes hearing yourself makes a differences, really.

The first time we practiced, we were doing Muse songs, I sang terribly and they weren't to happy either. We decided to give it another shot the week after. So we did the same thing again and that time I could hear myself. I sang way better and reached freakin' high... They were stunned.

I recon that their 'position' towards you isn't the very best basis for a band, but sometimes giving someone the benefit of the doubt pays off ;)

You should state good rules though, I always apply one golden rule: if you don't practice (e.g. at home) during the week and you don't improve every week, then it's pointless...

Cheers, I hope you guys will be doing fine!

[frenzy1971]

Well we played a weekend out of town, and well, she rocked. We got screamed at for an encore and the bar was DELIGHTED with us. So I know the whole control thing will prolly break us up down the road but for right now things seem to be fixed. Thanks fellers.

[UKRuss]

It's a Cinderella story!

I'm glad she has finally fitted in, I did feel a bit sorry for her I have to say. Anyone who has the balls (err. I hope she hasn't in a literal sense) to get up in front of a crowd and sing has my vote for a fair crack of the whip.

Good on you and the other guys for doing the right thing.

Happy Xmas!

[mattblack850]

Sounds like it's all working out for the good,

I have been in several similar situations, and, to be honest, a lot of the time the root of the problem has come down to the sound. I.E. whether the monitor levels are right, what is coming through which monitor etc... but most importantly to me is whether you have a decent sound engineer or whether your setting the sound yourselves. Since using a decent engineer, I'd never go back to doing it ourselves, we just soundcheck with the desk halfway back in the dancefloor area or whatever the venue is, and then once we start and the venue starts to fill up the engineer compensates and should keep you sounding good, (at least that's the theory!!!). Trust in your sound guy is a must, I've been using the same guy for at least 5 years now, he knows how we should sound and we trust him to make us sound that way!! Hope this might help in some way.
Obviously if you don't run a seperate desk then maybe it's something worth considering?

[Angus_Poser]

Tape record her singing, then play it for your singer, you'll never know how bad something sounds until it's on a cassete:)

[Sir Speedy]

There's a singer who is in an 80s Metal Tribute band , around here .

Unless he's playing a Bigger club , with good Monotoring ,and a real engineer he just doesn't try to hit the notes , as much , (just the Bar)

At the Bigger Club , you can't believe it's the same person .

[frenzy1971]

The problem seems to be fixed. We have her doing material that suits her voice. We did a new years gig, and we blew the $%%$#@ doors down to a screaming crowd of about 150 drunken people. It's really starting to come together now that we have some good monitors for her.

[Sir Speedy]

Is cool, everything came together . Over the months , checking out this thread , it looked like stormy seas . Good thing you stuck it out .

this kind of thing usually doesn't happen , a Singer and Girlfriend , agreeing on something !

Plus, It's kind of unusual for anybody to come to thier senses , in bands

Call Ripply'sBelieve it or not ,

A Rock band singer and his girl , agree he should be singing in Bars .:cool:

[miz b]

1. find out his astro sign (no not just sun, the works), find out hers if necessary on pretext of doing compatibility chart for them for a wedding present. take it to professional or do on line for about 20$. find the weak link and use it 2. Sit them down with all the band and a mediator (preferably a club manager they both respect that is cool headed OR someone who is in the recording end, i.e. studio manager you have worked with and he absolutely respects. have them give feedback about All band members good and bad qualities, his singing, and her LOUSY singining. 3. remember coming from outside professional person will eliminate the sting of his hurt, breaking up the band, making other band members look like they hate this women, etc. 4. If all else fails you will simply have to look for another singer....they are out there.....sorrry but always look for what is best for the WHOLE BAND, THE DREAM, THE VISION, sound like you have a tear in the seam he is not willing to look at...

[Sir Speedy]

Yes , astrology , may be the answer! (lol)If the astrologer doesn't work theycan always cry on Ophra's shoulder , where's that Ophra Lady with the soggy shoulder! :D

[GtrvVampyre]

Bad Yoko.LOL

[axe_man_oli]

Well, it seems okay now, but that whole control thing is not good, you need to cut in and establish to the pair that you guys ARE the band, and that they can find somewhere else if they wanna run the show. You gotta be firm and descisive in this business, when you start letting people tell you what to do against your best gut feeling, you start getting totally chopped out and left for dead.

Its good that you got it sorted singing wise but be wary of what she can do with him as a manipulative tool, just make sure you establish your presence so you don't get shunted aside when critical desicions appear down the road...

AND GOOD LUCK!!! :D

[frenzy1971]

Well we finally came to a do or die situation with regards to moving forward or staying where we were at and we voted her out. This caused some major hell for the singer, (the boyfriend) at home. I felt really really horrible, but it was like- get radio play, get the big gigs, (which we now have been offered) but only if she wasn't with us. Or keep her happy, keep her learning and getting better and end up with one venue in town that will still have you and no fan base. I finally heard from her and she's blaming the brunt of it on me because I had gotten close to her, was always encouraging her and sticking up for her. Just that the longer we went on the more I kept hearing you guys would be the best band in town IF...., and you guys totally rock, BUT.....
And we want to hire you guys to come play BUT....
I just felt torn and now I feel like sh%% and she pointed out that I mess up more than she did and I'm still in the band and I should have been honest with her. But I was never allowed to be up-front and honest with her, we were told to tell her man and let him find a "tactful" way to tell her. The one member who was totally honest with her they hate now and he left the band because of how personal it was taken.
My thing is.. how do I deal with the guilt I am feeling over this? I care about her and I know for a fact she hates my guts now. I don't like unresolved issues or when people don't like me as a person, and I know that I can never fix this. I feel that there will always be animosity from the singer (the guy) towards me, though he says otherwise. But I did defend her and I did encourage her, but it was time for the band to succeed or stagnate. *sigh* I just don't see it being fun any more because I had to take part in hurting someone that was my friend.
sorry for the long rant. I'm just really bummed.