How long does it take to learn guitar?

[DanF]

Hey Everyone,

I've been thinking about posting something like this for awhile, I think that on the internet there is a misconception about playing guitar that I've never seen addressed. That is, I see people ask "How long will it take until I'm good [don't suck..etc.]?"

Well as funny as it sounds I spoke with a couple of guys in town that I know who are very good players and I kind of feel like I'm approaching it -- I feel like I've got all the pieces together now and if I can just put them together I'll be rocking. By the way, when I say "play well" I mean with good time/feel, correct notes, able to execute relatively difficult passages well, able to pick up music by ear -- the whole package.

So how long did it take? The consensus among us was that it's about 3.5 or 4 years. I see these responses like "You can learn to play in 6 months but it will take a lifetime to master" that is A) Using a very generous definition of playing and B) An utterly useless generality ("a lifetime"). Your experience may be different and I encourage other good players to chime in but I want this to be a shot of confidence for you guys starting out etc. It gets better but you have to have faith and realize that it takes a long time.

I'll finish with one of my favorite old sayings: "A long perilous road tests the horse, a long perilous journey tests the man."

Good luck guys!

-Dan

[ignorant]

As I have been attempting to teach myself for almost 20 years and have not gotten above beginner I thank you for this thread. I should say that I have only taken guitar seriously in the last 2 years. I think it depends on the drive you have to learn the guitar. If you want it you can get it much quicker. Of course if you have a teacher it accelerates the process. Also playing with others that are better than you. I have not had the luxury of either. I have tried to find a teacher recently and was turned down. I live in a rural area and teachers are hard to come by. So the jist of this is that If you want it bad enough you can get it. The time it takes is up to you. IMHO

[ignorant]

Did my last post sound as though I was looking for sympathy? If so it was not my intention. As I read it I began to wonder. My situation is a result of many things. It is not to be taken as normal. I am working harder than ever to become a better guitarist. And I know it will come. Sorry if anyone misunderstood. I love this place!

[curiousgeorge]

The length of time to "get good" is relative to the amount of time glued to the instrument as well as the level of natural physical and mental talent. I know guys that were excellent after a couple of years. They could play any Satch or Metallica tune note-for-note and could improvise like crazy. This is when they were teenagers back in high school, too! It took me a little longer, even though I spent the same hours after school practicing my *** off and playing in bands all over the place. I think a lot of guitar players think too far ahead when they play a passage. They tend to ready themeselves for the next set of licks before concentrating on making the notes "in the now" count. You've got to play in the moment and that is one of the most important things I've learned. It's good to be aware of what's coming up, but you should be very aware of every note under your fingers as well.

[Los Boleros]

This sounds like a good question for Voodoo Child!;)

The reason you see the types of answers like "it takes a lifre time to ......" is that the closer we get, the farther we want to go. When you first pick up a guitar you think short term goals. If I could just learn Purple Haze i would be happy Obviously when you get there, there is always a new obstacle or should I say challenge. Some times our progress is better gaged by the people around us. The real answer to this question lies in your heart. How badly do you want it. Some people just kinda pick up the guitar not really wanting it that badly but the more they learn, the more addicting it gets. Always raising the bar. If you really want it bad, then practicing should be pretty fun in itself. The bottom line is that we should try and set our oun personal goals and before setting new goals, ask yourself, did I get to this goal yet. If you did, (and you probably did) Then you are getting pretty good;)

[Bizarro]

There are many factors. I separate it into two completely different topics.
1. How long does it take to play proficiently?
This depends. I was a rocker starting out, and I was able to gain chops in about 6 months to a year. After that I could tackle most Metallica, Van Halen, Ozzy, etc, with reasonable results. Not perfect, but not bad either. Learning classical, fingerstyle, and jazz chord work took a lot longer! :eek:
2. How long does it take to become a musician?
Depends, I was always musically inclined as a kid, from the time I was a baby if you believe my mom! :) I was good at some aspects and horrible at others. Ear training takes a great deal of time to develop.

Chops come and go. Right now they're not so great for speed metal, but my chord work and bluesy styles (SRV) are solid. The musician part of me continues to grow even if my chops are rusty, which is probably true for everyone.

[ashc]

It's so incredibly subjective and personal and thats why most people are vague in their answers.

If after 6 months I could have heard myself now 4 years on I would have thought I was pretty good, but in real life I know that I'm not. Thats partly because my perception changed about what is good and partly because if I start to think I'm any good I'm going to stop getting better. With a few gaps filled in and a lot of tidying up I might stretch to a "proficient" after those 4.5 years - but I think that would be generous (very much depends on what style you are striving to play). I think it would have gone a lot quicker if I was half my age. I have little trouble with the mental/theory/organisation aspects but the physical side is possibly tougher to train in old hands.

As already said by others talent and time invested are the main components in any activity (guitar, sports, work you name). Time invested however is useless if used incorrectly through lack of organised and correct practice, lack of discipline or with incorrect technique. The latter, as I have learn't can, by itself, burn time in a major way, and this is the significant peril for the autodidact.

I'm in the process of finding a teacher, at 36 I don't have time to waste anymore!

All in all. Everyones mileage will vary.

[oRg]

Playiing good is entirely subjective. Some people are happy just being able to play power-chords so they can learn the next punk song that comes out on the radio while other practice every day in order to play classical, neoclassical, shred, and jazz fusion music correctly. This is speaking in terms of technique of course. As far as learning music theory...it all depends on where you want to go. If you just want to play punk music then there'd be no sense in learning dodecaphonics, chromatics passing tones, chords (outside of the powerchords), or scales/modes. Maybe learn a little bit about chord progression off of a friend or the internet and leave it at that. Then you just practice on picking hard and heavy with very little attention on speed. For those aspiring to create music like jazz, neoclassical, and classical they could be studying their instruments for years and years to come perfecting various techniques and learning countless amounts of music theory.

[UKRuss]

I'm not into time, man.

But if you had to press me I'd make two comments.

1) I always had more time to play guitar and so I could be much better now than I am, but I have a life to lead and a career in another area and a family and all those things take a considerable amount of my waking moments too.

2) I will always be a guitar player and I will always love music and as I gert older I love more variety in the music I wnat to listen to and therefore I will always be a student of music and so I will always be learning.

If that takes a lifetime then so be it. Perhaps I will run out of time befoer I get where I wanted to be, but I still had a shedload of fun getting there.

I hope Voodoo Child is off practicing, we haven't seen him for a while...

[ashc]

Russ - yep, good points, must be in the Surrey water :D Well it was for beck, Clapton and Page anyways...

There are lots of things to do in life apart from this addictive piece of wood and wire. And it's all about enjoying it; "to journey not to arrive" as they say. If I "arrive" on guitar then that'll probably be me finished with it :D

[phantom]

I hope Voodoo Child is off practicing, we haven't seen him for a while...

yeah and i haven't seen joey dahlia for a while as well. wonder what he is doing... maybe he got caught. :eek:
..sorry

[rmuscat]

relax guys ... VoodooChild was ill but he was around some time ago ... practicing (pm'd him) ...

joey dahlia i think he's after favored nations again! UNREAL ...

[forgottenking2]

I started in '97. And I'd like to think of myself as a work in progress (I'd hate to think this is how I would end up :p ) I have heard some of the stuff I played 6 months ago and I have improved a great deal, and I just can't listen to the tapes I recorded 2 years ago which at the time thought were my greatest recordings ever :) so it's kind of true the "lifetime statement thingy", I also agree with Bizarro's conclussions, SPECIALLY "chops come and go" that's totally true hence the importance of putting enphasis on musicianship more than raw technique.

But back to the question... the best anwer would be a series of questions that would help you indentify the personality of the one who's asking and then you can give him an estimate. "It deppends, Are you a perfectionist? How far do you want to take the guitar?" Are good ones and once you get to hear and understand the student's goals it's pretty easy to define an estimate "If you practice hard you'll get there in about..."

As a teacher I get asked that a lot and specially with parents that's one of the most crucial questions that will define weather you're getting their business or not. so one's gotta be careful with that one.

My 2 cents

Regards,

[DanF]

Hmm...

Well, I think you guys have drifted even further off into generality than the initial example. First when I made my comments about "a lifetime is too general" I didn't mean that that's not true -- you can seemingly study guitar forever and always get better (Guys like Segovia and Jim Hall etc.) What I was trying to get across is that I have rarely (again in my town but this time I'm going to include open mic night performers), rarely ever seen a guitar player that sounded any good that had been playing for less than 3 years. So if you are holding yourself up to what, in my experience, are unrealistic expectations rest easy -- it does take a long time.

I need to go dig it up but interestingly enough natural talent has more to do with skill acquisition than amount of time spent practicing (This is why you don't see many average looking NFL players, it takes lots of practice to become good -- and you can be a very good football player just by training a lot, but at a certain level genetics will be the bar that keeps you at 90% of NFL level etc.) I've seen that in a peer-reviewed medical medical journal but I don't know if I'll be able to find it again.

So not to stroke anyone's ego but it could be that some of you guys on here that are always talking about how good you are at 2 years, 1.5 years etc could have a better natural gift for music than I do.

So I guess those are my caveats and as I tried to express early, I'm not writing this to apply some weird timeline to everyone's playing level, rather I am trying to encourage newer players that many people (that end up being great players) take quite some time to get there, so don't get down on yourself.

-Dan

[Darron]

Ok, this is my first ever post on ibreath, so I hope I make some sense here.

I've got a slightly different take on this. Speaking as someone who's spent a few years trying to learn and isn't even past beginner stage (I can't play even one song all the way through yet!) I don't think it has anything to do with an amount of time. I think an alternative way to ask that question is: "how much effort does it take to get good?"

I've wasted the last few years on the guitar, expecting my tutor to 'teach' me how to play (thinking, that’s how it works - you spend the time, you get the reward, right?). It's only recently that I've realised it is the effort I spend 'learning', rather than the time I spend 'being taught', that gets results!

If you are committed to this, it's your responsibility to learn how to play – not your tutors job to teach you (I hope you can see what I mean by this, tutors are great when they're good). Instead, they’re there simply to show you what to learn and in what order (as it turns out, I don't feel mine was very good at this).

If you could quantify effort into a handy unit of measurement and be able to say something like "learning how all the modes fit together along the fret board so you can play in the key of C at any point on the neck, takes 18 (totally random number) units of effort." Then you know if you can manage 4 units a day/week/month then you can guage how 'long' things will take you.

Life is FAAAAAR from that simple, of cause ;)

I guess, in a nut shell, the point I'm trying to make is: It's all about what you have to do to get good that’s important, how long that will take you is entirely dependant on how much effort you can/will put in.

In order to pull it back to DanF's original point a little, what specifically do I have to do/learn in order to get good? (How long that will take me I guess I'll figure out for myself).

Again, speaking as someone who is relatively new to the guitar, this is what has been hampering me for so long! I know what my end result is intended to be (a "good" player), and I'm willing to put in what ever effort I can, when I can but I have no idea of what is actually involved in getting there, what are the steps/stages? I guess I need some sort of road map so that I can see where my next stop is. Even if it is just some sort of definitive list of all things you could learn (in some sort of order) that would be cool.

Anyway, I've waffled on for far to long and all I'm doing now is venting my frustration, and this aint the place for that sort of thing.

Like I say, this is my first post so I hope it came across ok.

Daz

[DanF]

That is an excellent observation/distinction Darron, welcome to iBreathe :)

-Dan

[UKRuss]

I'm glad to hear the chaps (Voodoo and Joey) are ok.


Actually, I'm mostly reeling backwards in a stunned way (much like Homer does when he catches Apu having an affair) that our resident Jorge Maldonado only started playing in '97!!!!

Is that right? '97! that's 1997?

Christ, I started playing in '84...I really shouold be better than I am now.

I shall go home and self-flagellate until improvement is seen.

[ReinierK]

I think it's also important not to get restricted by guitar playing only.
I mean this:
not to brag, but I'm a bit above avarege with almost everything that involes either of the 7 parts of intelligance. Thereby I mean that by 'nature' I have certein affinities. Like with language, music, math, sports etc.

What I'm pointing at is that you might be the greatest guitarist in the world, but sacrifice everything else for it, while I prefer (and is says: I) to do as much as I can.

I seriously want to become a musician, so I'm putting a lot of time in it, but I also like board games which I play a lot and to be social etc.

Hope you see my point! And in the end, it's all about what you really want. In my heart, I want to write classical music just like mozart etc withou instruments, just from thought to paper, then execute that on guitar and vocals and mix some heavy riffs in it... So I know what to work on now and I try to achieve that!

Sorry to be a bit off topic, just wanted to make a small point ;)

[Bizarro]

Different folks do start with different skills. That's very true, and as a teacher in the past it was very apparent. Where people start is one thing, and where they end up mainly has to do with effort, not only talent or innate abilities.

I know people with great ears and great dexterity that are not very good guitar players! :) They don't work hard enough to be as good as they could be.

With good natural dexterity and extreme dedication a person can reach incredible heights in terms of technique in a few short years.

[forgottenking2]

Sheer hard work is the only way I know. I have never had any "natural gifts" on anything nor when I did martial arts or music... well maybe my only gift is the aparent facility I have with science :) . I know I must have been a music teacher's nightmare, no natural dexterity, totally unable to recognize pitches (I couldn't even carry a tune singing :p ) , HORRIBLE sense of rhythm (I've never been able to dance either :D ) The only thing that has kept me going is determination and the fact that I had such an ego that my reasoning was "if so and so can do it then I can too". But that has helped me understand students when they start, I have still to meet a student that's as bad as I was when I started, so I can say totally honestly "You're doing a lot better than me when I started, you just need to practice this and that". So if anything it makes me a better teacher :D

[UKRuss]

Well, I for one am impressed as hell. Your hard work has paid off and you can rest assured your articles have given me much food for thought.

I am only now left to be embarassed that I didnt have the drive to work as hard myself.

But I ain't given up learning yet!

[Angus_Poser]

it can take a long time, I've been playing for a year and getting shown up by people who have been playing about half as long as i have, its a matter of practice.

[mattblack850]

There's a fairly simple equation to this:-

You get out of it what you put in!!!!
Plus or minus a certain amount of natural musicality and dexterousness!!

Some have a natural ear, some have naturally spreadable fingers, some of us don't. But certain aspects CAN BE LEARNED, no matter how hard they seem in the beginning. I have larger than average hands (being 6' 6", what'd you expect!), but I know people that can stretch way farther on the fretboard, in the same way that I know people that can hammer-on/off a lot faster than me, but with perciverence and practice I am getting not just quicker but more accurate, which was half the battle, than I was.Hope this gives a bit of encouragement.:D :D :D

[syrian_vai]

greetings Every1 , and happy new year to all of u my brothers in arm , though this greeting is late , but due to my TERRIBLE med exams , i have been away for a while , so everyone , i missed u as hell ( rumscat , phantom , los boleros , Len , eric V ........ just to name a few )

i have stole some moments away from studying ( got a real hard pathophysiology test coming on sunday , so please wish me luck guys - i really need it :D )

reading this thread , and ur posts , i was so frustrated , everyone here is talking abt practice , and how much amount u put in to take the best results !! arent we forgetting something here ???

its true that we must practice for a long time in order to become good players , but ............... the problem is : what should we practice ??

considering the huge amounts of theory and techs out there ,i say its like a maze ....

lets say someone wants to master yngwie's style , he must practice on scales and sweeps and so on , but , learning neoclassical theory is really not easy , it means , u should study some classical theory ( which ithink is almost impossible lol )

so the question is : if one wanted a road map to get to his goals , how is he supposed to find it or to create it , if he theres tons of stuff out there ( and our average rate of life is only 50 years after all )

Take care all of u and - again - happy new year brothers

[tinsmith]

The answer to the question you have asked is...................a lifetime.

[steffyweffy777]

...
What I'm pointing at is that you might be the greatest guitarist in the world, but sacrifice everything else for it, while I prefer (and is says: I) to do as much as I can......
....In my heart, I want to write classical music just like mozart etc without instruments, just from thought to paper,.......

Yeah I am the same, i want to just be able to write it to paper, as without trying to brag, I was considered a musical genius as a kid, as learned the accordion, which my parents wanted, and my teacher (to this day) says he never met anyoen with my ear and speed of learning, and said I had the talent of 'the masters' but not the perseverance they had.
i told him i didn't want to be an accoridonist, and he still says I (I'm 35 haven't played it since was a kid) could pick it up again and in a few eyars probably still be the best, even if ti meant alot of hard work playing all day....
he says I used to learn 4 or 5 times fatser than others, ...stuff in a lesson others had trouble learning in a month, and well since I gave up as didn't wanna be a accodionist but wanted a guitar and to rock out, well my parents made sure i never got a guitar or lessons, and I taught myself piano by ear, though only melodies never chords, and well then they gave the piano to mys sister when she got married, etc......

To cut a long story short, I am 35, and have suffered (as a result from going into the wrong careers and studying stuff I shouldn't have which wasn't as natural to me) from O.C.D (what they say Mozart , Howard Hughes, Nikola Tesla etc, had) and which gives peopel a natural gift for details and perfection and loads of intrusive thoughts and ideas.....

This explains alot, and well being in the only family who would neglect and ignore the kind of talents I had, I basically started to play guitar with the idea I would never get anywhere with it have a career in it, at age 21, and well, i must say i learn it on my own by ear, trial and error, soi just could know which note was in my head and get to it 8 out of 10 times on guitar.

I had a few lessons and will ask everyone a question "is it better to have a teacher or not, or do you learn faster with a teacher or not ?"
I ask as some good teacher a few years ago told me I was too old and kept being a smarmy person when he saw I was learning stuff he taugth me very fast....and well alot of the time there were bits which he did help with, but I think working froma good book if you have a natural knakc of doing things, could be as good or better than a teacher, as Van Halen and Nuno bettencourt taught themselves, and well I am sure if they got lessosn they could have lost their own individual way of doing stuff !?

I must say lessons are good if you need some kick in the butt to get you organised and point you in the right way, but if you are motivated and intelligent, I am sure if you have natural ability you can tecah yourself faster possibly with books as teacehrs which are good will move you ahead sure, but a bad teacher who may just work you through books and not care too much, could hold you back !

I don't know, anyone have any clues the teachers, the self taught etc ?

I must say i studied design and dd a degree, and clinical depression a serve OCD where I even stopped playing guitar and listening to rock for years, and well it's all nuts but the point I am making is that my lacking of musical expression and doing a career which robbed my time and made me stress, brought my OCD to a severe crippling state which meant I lost many years in a haze, and not living life.

I possibly coudl ahve been a hendrix or van halen as i heard and still 'hear' (like a radio) music in my head, and amazing classical and rock music and lyrics enter my head, abit like being channelled stuff from some demon or God.....very odd....but yeah, Mozart and ther apperently heard the same, and so i get upset as what i did learn in sporadic tijmes on guitar actually fooled people into thinking I had played for eyars but infact I would probably say i had very little tiem in actually learning it....

even got some lessosn in piano lately and the woman was telling me I could have been this or that as she reckoned I have perfect pitch and stuff....
This is demopralising as I don't want to be told I could have been a great composer but that now I was 'too old' etc, as it's bull****, and the classical music approach is good but sometimes they can hold you back by ruining your confidence and enthusiasm.....sure I may ahve been this or that if I did it when i wanted to, but the point it tiem has gone, and why can't I do it now, I mean if I have talent I can catch up people who were average and studied the long hard road to compensate, so I get annoyed with this stuff, which is also why when i decided to get guitar lessons 5 years ago, and started to learn classical songs in a few weeks, the teacher was abit jealous and said it couldn't have taken me so little time to learn, but I applied myself and worked hard at it......then he would make smug comments when i asked if I could be a songwriter, and well he was 10 years younger than me and laughed and well, this caused me to get upset.

I didn't take anymore lesosns and even stoped learning fo the last 4 years, and just improvised and did bits here and there, but guess I got into a deep depression of 'what could have been tried' and how good I would have been as a kid, etc, and how many albums i could have written by now, with all the 'free' music I 'hear' in my head,....and well guess it's my latent OCD, but the last 5 years I have had another breakdown and got to the point where I even stopped appreciating anything and would turn music I loved off, as it reminded me of a hope and love I 'could never have' or 'lost'....

I guess the problem is nobody knows my true identity so I am not boasting as nobody knows me, so will safely say for the purpose of everyone's benefit out there, that i am a musical genius, and could have been like Mozart or hendrix given the right opportunities, infact I was more a classical type in the way i hear entire pieces when I go to bed and enjoy 'listening' to it, it's like my carving for good music when the CD player isn't on, emans my head conjurs it up subconsciously, like an LSD trip but natural !

yeah so wanted to say I had my life messed up and the idea put into my head that music was a 'no go' and all my life I have gotten mental problems due to depriving myself, and then holding bakc when i did have a chance, as I didn't see it this way.

I am now 35, and if I stuck wit my guitar 5 yeras ago, I would have been amazing and could have written 5 or 10 albums, as have an estimated 100 hours of stuff i hummed into dicataphones (not the same thing !) and poems and lyrics and stuff lying about.....but instead I have gotten worse at guitar and haven't played it in 4 years properly, so whereas i could have had a last chance 5 eyars ago, now I will be 40 before I achieve what i could have by now.....

Now by the time I get my act together, either I will be burnt out, have lost my spark, or be considered too old in an agesit music industry and well seems like I ahve lost the battle before it has begun and can't do music 'for fun' as my potential was and is still a rare and precious gift, and well when i studied and worked ind esign, becasue I wasn't as good at it as music, I lost all my spare time having to keep up with it, and so neevr got a chance with music.

If i don't do music full time nwo, i will never get good, and other careers are all lost as gave them all up as don't care about life unelss I do music.
Shame the last 5 years I didn't do it, as had all day to study since losing my career.....but didn't. Now I regret even more, but want to play all day 8 hours or more, so reckon with my ability and that time, I could get amazing in between 6 months ad possibly give Steve Via a run fro his money by 2 years time.....btu will anyoen buy my records or come see my gigs if I do achieve !?

I tried the easeri option the last few years to join a band as a singer, as I sound like paul Rodgers and Robert plant, and well neevr learnt, I just am natural at siging as i can just do it.....and well many bands did like me, but I rejected them as they were not good enough and the song ideas I haev were brilliant but they liked playing indie, grunge, and well, i guess I should have just played my guitar and did it all on my own !

The joke is, i made a few songs up, when I was uninspired, and thought they were played badly and reject songs, and put them on myspace, and some independant label wanted to sign me with a 50/50 record deal, an dfree studio time when i liked ! I told them my msuci was crap, and the good stuff could be like led Zeppelin, and i had no band and needed a few eyars to learn guitra, and told them I was 35 and so asked them what their opinions were, and they were nice and said they liked me alot and to get in contact when i felt right.....

I don't know.... i won't give my true identity as never boast, but rather put myself down all the time, as used to i from my past, but had to be blunt on this forum as I need some opinions and want people not to f**k up like me !

I guess I want to see my error and regrets and now do music at all costs and not waste the rest of my life and time, and talent....

I guess learning is all about talent, and practice....effort is the word really as you need to push and be focused on the task in hand or you will lose your life, chances and all like me......i could have been amazing even the last 5 years, but am still rubbish my my standards,....

I intend to now play all day and focus and hopefully elarn by books, and compose music by ear and move along.....
If lessons are better please let me know, as dont' want another teacher to give me a complex and send me in a other 4 year time wasting regretful demise.

continued next page.....

[steffyweffy777]

continued....


I still reckon everyone who has a talent for learning can teach themselves, and even if not 'perfect' it's their own style.....because of hendrix and van Halen got lessons they would probably not have done what they did, or they could have just the same as their openminded genius would have pushed them, but who knows maybe their doing it themselves was just the same !!!?

I know I would mess with the instrument getting weird noises, and believed the whole neck was one giant scale, and any chord was possible if you experimented, so I just felt not limited but to od what my fingers wanted !

I don't know, but my life was set into ruina nd continued by my mental problems....guess genius in music and imagination is just a word for a normal guiy having a mental problem which opens up the subconsious into giving 'free' music and skills .....i am not a genius, hate that word, as everyone is equal and born the same.....i just think some who have mental instabilitie and depressions, become conduits, ot vessels of unlocked ability and imagination, as the brain chemistry and problems open other doors as i don't compose anything, it just comes to me when it likes....

Mozart wa the same, some normal guy with a mental disorder, and thta gave him free music, which he took credit for, ...Nikola tesla was the same.....I guess I have tried alot of other thinsg in life ins mall snatches which is also why i didn't just do guitar as wanetd to design and act and designa dn do science, all things led me into going in circles and never focusing as because I wasn't allowed to do guitar, i guess I alwyas looked around at anything....i wanted to get into film making and write books, but then realised they all take ages and love guitar and well, i would do abit her and there of everything and get nothing done......a problem is when this gets out of hand and you get confused and then don't know what you wanna do in life anymore !



I woudl love to compose music without worrying about playing piano like rachmaninov or hendrix, before anyone wa ot hear my music, as writing straigh to paper saves time and the ned to play like a master before being able to get msuic out of me, before I lose it !

I have lost decades of amazing music which was liek mozart, zeppelin, etc....the last five years I was alos alot worse in my breakdown, as my bad phase also meant alot of the time my 'free music' would stop entirely for months and more leading me to think i had lost my spark, my talent and then this really screwed me up, as it made me realise we are all the same, just vessels of something which coems through us.

I doubt it's my age which I once thought due to my age complex, which stopped me learning the last few years fearing I'd never get anywhere.....and then i realsied I had mercury fillings about the same time I went downhill thje last few years, and enevr had fillinsg in my life before.

Who knows, maybe the mercury ahs given me brain fog or damage, and i have either lost that fine line which made me the way I was, or, its a coincidence....maybe i was always so good at imagining etc, as I had never had fillings in my life !!?

If I get them removed I need a proper doctor holistic dentist to do it, with precautions againts more mercury poisoning as removing fillings releases upto an equivalent of 10 years mercury exposure.....and will need mercury detox before and after, and the money to pay for it all, or my brain will furthur be more damaged and neevr clear up.....

I hope if all this gets doen I won't get alzheimers and lose my talent and hoep my spark returns or I will never get anywhere, and my life will not have just been a waste, but the later part of it will have lost the talent to achieve what could have been done if I had mercury !

any comments !

I feel like jumping off a building but then i will lose all chance of anything....i will probabaly get nowhere in life anymore, but I will, f**k that i will neevr let anything stop me, mercury, mental illness, regret, or the past, or age, or f**king anything !

I would love to learn composition, but don't want to spend years learnig as I just want to get it out instantly !!!!! any good boosk for this !?

Do I need lessons, or can I learn myself ?! anyone !?


anon (i go by some stupid avatar called steffyweffy, as will not reveal my identity)

[UKRuss]

Thems some posts!

But may I sum up?

What you're asking is "Are guitar lessons a good idea"?

The answer is "Yes they are, if you're teacher is the right one for you"

Welcome to IBM!:D

[forgottenking2]

That's a long post right there! Reading it is quite a feat of concentration considering it's 7 in the morning. I don't think age is an issue when it comes to learning music. I have had students that are over 70 and still enjoy it and are able to play music they like. You can look back and think of all the time you've lost or you could think of today and the future and make plans. Like Russ said, a teacher is a good idea but you need to find one that's right for you. Yes, there are some out there who are jealous and selfish with their knowledge, but there are some good ones too. It just takes some looking around that's all. Good luck with everything and welcome to IBM. We have tons of info here and if you have a questions there are a lot of very knowledgeable players who can answer your questions.

Enjoy your stay.

-Jorge

[steffyweffy777]

thanks for those replies guys !

you are right.....guess I am not 70 yet, and at 35 i hope to see i could have doen alot the last 5 eyars and will maybe live to regret my folly, but will hopefully be a badass player by 40 ! or evn the next 4 to 6 months if I play and compose well, as I am not a paul Gilbert type, more wanting to play like Jimmy page !

Infact that's a good thing, if I said I just wanted to really be as good as jimmy page in playing, for starters, how long could this take based on a 3 to 8 hour practice regime ? and judging by the fact i already play some abit, and though forgot all my chords, can relearn etc, and well i learn pretty quick anyway.

Also for anyone out there, how long would it take an average person, so this question could be useful to all the led Zeppelin freaks out there !
I guess this will involve learning zep songs, as they are amazing and all one could need if they want to rock cool and hard, and not worry too much about shred and other players.

Also i asked about the teacher thing as I reckon with some good CD Books out there, like the Troy Stetina series and fingerstyle books out there, someone who is competent should in theory be a good teacher to apply this knowledge to themselves, as I know how to play abit already and so the physical side of guitar is not a problem to me, but learning stuff and technique is .

i want to save money sure, but alos like the idea of being my own boss....
is teaching a Holy Grail or can self learning be better for some !?
I tend to know how to learn as did have some lessons in the past so know you have to focus on small chunks at a time, and seperate the bass from the treble parts when learning some classical, and at one point I used to play some complex classical pieces by carcassi etc, when I had a few months of lessons, but hada breakdown and stoped and that was 5 years ago, what a shame by now I could have been not only a badass rocker, but in classical guitar too.....dam !

I only remember one piece, as I had learnt too much too fats at the time and it didn't sink in enough when I stopped suddenly. I can do some really cool baroque piece which sunds abit like Randy Rhoad's DEE piece, but is more ancient sounding....

regards and glad to be here...

what does anyone think of this ???

www.guitarprinciples.com

[UKRuss]

It will take 3 years, 2 months, 4 days, 6 hours, 23 minutes and 6 seconds to be as good as Jimmy Page. Starting from.....NOW!

Seriously, forget about being as good as Jimmy Page, thats all subjective anyway. Sometimes I hear him and think that's great and sometimes I think Christ! Shut up the whining noise. Also, forget about shred. If it's not your thing don't even worry about it.

So, try learning some Zep songs. Simple as that.

Get some sheets and learn, through that you will learn chords and you can move on from there.

Get some songs under your belt and play the guitar.

Everything else comes next.

(this all comes with a warning that 70s rock is now deemed a personal thing that can only be played to very select audiences who share your taste in 70s rock, don't expect to turn up at parties and blow everyone away with Led Zep songs, s'all I'm saying)

[UKRuss]

I am no counsellor and this site really deals with music of course;)

But I would suggest perhaps seperating your want to play guitar from your anger with your parents.

After all, we all have reasons to disagree and dislike the decisions our parents made. But you must remember, they are just people after all, humans that make mistakes.

I'm a parent and everyday I make mistakes, I hope my kids won't hold it against me later on down the line. They probably will, hey, that's life. They'll do the same to thei kids too.

Playing guitar has nothing to do with this in any case.

Forget about the past, learn to play guitar and enjoy it. Then if things are getting you down, you can plug in and ROCK HARD!

[steffyweffy777]

Anyway regarding classic rock, there's always an undergound scene, as even Zeppelin were lambasted by all music press at the time, but they shone through....guess if you play anything, there's alwyas some audience, as I am not into crappy indie and the 'music scene' never was, as wasn't into britpop, or pop much before then ether ! always listened to classic rock and it was alwyas before my musical time....

guess if you make good music and people wanna hear you, record compannies will try and grab some part of it if they can as they only wnat money ! I say, everyone stick to what you want as art and progress goes forwards and is looking to change and evolve or fly in the face of fashion.....we must strive to be honest and love music and do it, and then if it's to be it will.....

[Jed]

It will take 3 years, 2 months, 4 days, 6 hours, 23 minutes and 6 seconds to be as good as Jimmy Page.

. . . and no doubt this assessment comes with a double-money-back guarantee.

. . marking my calendar . .

cheers,

[UKRuss]

Well, I don't think it's impossible for you to attain your dream. There is no reason at all why you couldnt become a succesful musician even if it's only at a semi pro level playing gigs in pubs and clubs.

Sure, it might be a bit late to have stadium rock dreams a la Zep, but if you dont try you'll never know.

It is equally satisfying to have a bit of notoriety on the web for example or playuing a few local gigs if thats your thing.

Go for it! All you gotta do is pick up that guitar and play!

[UKRuss]

. . . and no doubt this assessment comes with a double-money-back guarantee.

. . marking my calendar . .

cheers,

Jed, in my books you already are as good as Jimmy Page...in fact I am beginning to believe you may in fact BE Jimmy Page.

[Jed]

Jed, in my books you already are as good as Jimmy Page...in fact I am beginning to believe you may in fact BE Jimmy Page.

lol . . . there was a time back in the 70's, when the chemical mix was just right, that I was sure I was. Subsequent fatherhood and the resultant obligatory de-tox laid that fantasy to rest some time ago.

Now I'm just looking for a geezer gig that won't emotionally scar my progeny.

cheers,

[Blutwulf]

Damn, Steffy, you make longer posts than I do.

Obviously, none of your questions can be answered until you define "good," "successful," etc. To me a guitar player is successful the first time they have fun playing. To me, "good" is a point of satisfaction and self-respect. By those standards. it can take very little time...

If your self-respect and satisfaction is dependent on believing that others are impressed with you, then you have set an unrealistic bar for your self-respect. Try not to judge yourself by what you imagine others feel about you (their feelings are based on their own misperceptions). It may be a bit unhealthy for one to pin their self-respect on an assumption of a misperception.

Play for you, until you are happy. As a happy side-effect, there will be others who like what you play. But do not depend on their approval. Compliments are nice, sure, but once you become addicted, you are screwed.

[steffyweffy777]

too true.....i am just a whinging ninny, sorry for being a pain in the butt folks....i have plenty life left what am I complaining about, and if I shut my motuh years ago I could have done plenty !

hey, speak soon dudes

[UKRuss]

Take a leaf out of Bluttie's book, he's the oldest man ever and he stays cool.

:D

[steffyweffy777]

hey !

I also would like to play some proper metal, Zak wylde style, so am I too old to get any good before being a old age pensioner !?
as I said i know I was always a kid who learnt accoridon 5 times faster than others, and my teacher said he neevr met anyone with my ear, and thought couldn't read music as my ear made it too eays for me to disregard reading, but he'd say i learnt stuff in a lesson others took a month to learn !

i guess i wouldn't need lessons, if i wanted to save money, and could learn fats myself as it's not hard, you know, it's all about practice and stuff, though i guess there must be some black art ionvolved in learning tapping as tried to teach myself but can neevr get those 'squeels' unless I do them with the pick, but the ones made by the left hand seem to only happen with guitars equipped with EMgs and heavy distortion pedals as can't get those zak wylde squeals using my les paul type guitar through a marshall, unless I am **** !?

i guess if jack Black can rock we all can,and well the film is ****, but the intro song 'Kickapoo' is bloody hilarious, but features meatload and Dio, and is amazing....good old jack Black, he has to be comic, but he sticks up for metal, and that song is amazingly sounding !!!!

anyone agree !?

[UKRuss]

There's plenty of advice in these forums on the technique required for good pinch harmonics (squeals).

As you have 30 years before you are an OAP...you have plenty of time to get Zakk Wylde on the guitar if you want to.

He remains a popular player but in general I'd say the demand for such music is on the wane.

Nowt wrong with learning the techniques though.

[Blutwulf]

I'd say the demand for such music is on the wane.Damn you, vile popster! Well... Okay. I guess you're right. *sigh Rock has died, replaced by beeps and whistle dance music.

But as long as there is a Blutwulf to draw air into his lungs, there will always be a market for 70's rock and the electric guillotine of an open E major hammered by a windmilling arm and fed through a moaning tube amp.



That, and there'll always be bombast, apparently. Need... coffee...

[UKRuss]

Heh hehhh.

But now we're talking 80s rock! Even die hard 70s rocksters didn't like 80s rock right?

I want to still like it all like I loved it then but...I just don't:(

[joeyd929]

It will take 3 years, 2 months, 4 days, 6 hours, 23 minutes and 6 seconds to be as good as Jimmy Page. Starting from.....NOW!

Seriously, forget about being as good as Jimmy Page, thats all subjective anyway. Sometimes I hear him and think that's great and sometimes I think Christ! Shut up the whining noise. Also, forget about shred. If it's not your thing don't even worry about it.

So, try learning some Zep songs. Simple as that.

Get some sheets and learn, through that you will learn chords and you can move on from there.

Get some songs under your belt and play the guitar.

Everything else comes next.

(this all comes with a warning that 70s rock is now deemed a personal thing that can only be played to very select audiences who share your taste in 70s rock, don't expect to turn up at parties and blow everyone away with Led Zep songs, s'all I'm saying)

Actually, Russ, I did the calculations and you were off a little bit on the time it takes to not suck. You had stated that It will take 3 years, 2 months, 4 days, 6 hours, 23 minutes and 6 seconds to be as good as Jimmy Page. Starting from.....NOW!

Ah Ha, I re-calculated your figures, and it is actually It will take 3 years, 2 months, 4 days, 3 hours, 17 minutes and 43 seconds to be as good as Jimmy Page. Starting from.....NOW!

But seriously, it took me about 3 years before I was confident enough to play some leads but I jammed with friends even when I sucked..wait, I still suck...

[UKRuss]

Damn! I knew I had miscalculated somewhere along the line.

[Jed]

Wait, . . . can we start over ? I wasn't ready. . .

Actually, Russ, I did the calculations and you were off a little bit on the time it takes to not suck. You had stated that It will take 3 years, 2 months, 4 days, 6 hours, 23 minutes and 6 seconds to be as good as Jimmy Page. Starting from.....NOW!

Ah Ha, I re-calculated your figures, and it is actually It will take 3 years, 2 months, 4 days, 3 hours, 17 minutes and 43 seconds to be as good as Jimmy Page. Starting from.....NOW!

But seriously, it took me about 3 years before I was confident enough to play some leads but I jammed with friends even when I sucked..wait, I still suck...

[joeyd929]

Wait, . . . can we start over ? I wasn't ready. . .

In all seriousness, I find that I get progressivly better when I don't think about it. What I mean is that when I try to focus on improving, I tend to stress out and get impatient and feel like no progress is being made.

However, if I just try to learn something new and take my time and just play whatever it is as best as I can, it seems that over time there is improvement.

For example, I have always liked hybrid picking since I saw a video of Albert Lee doing some hot picking. Then I noticed years later that Guthrie Govan utilizes this technique.

I started just playing around with alternate picking and hybrid finger technique and really didn't care how good or bad I was and a strange thing happened.. I started to get better at it on a considerable level.

Mind over matter I guess.. Like the old saying, a watched pot never boils..or was it "Never boil good pot"....something like that...

[forgottenking2]

Yeh, I still suck... but I can blame it on my tendons ;)

[steffyweffy777]

There's plenty of advice in these forums on the technique required for good pinch harmonics (squeals).

As you have 30 years before you are an OAP...you have plenty of time to get Zakk Wylde on the guitar if you want to.

He remains a popular player but in general I'd say the demand for such music is on the wane.

Nowt wrong with learning the techniques though.

you gotta play what you love dude......me, i just think the best songs are classic rock with some flash solos, like Zep, and Triumph.... to me my fave player who can be all round is Rik Emmet !

[UKRuss]

That's true of course. It was just in the context of becoming a world famous rock star...a gentle hint that Zep probably won't get you there nowadays.:)

[Reign of Praine]

As I have been attempting to teach myself for almost 20 years and have not gotten above beginner I thank you for this thread. I should say that I have only taken guitar seriously in the last 2 years. I think it depends on the drive you have to learn the guitar. If you want it you can get it much quicker. Of course if you have a teacher it accelerates the process. Also playing with others that are better than you. I have not had the luxury of either. I have tried to find a teacher recently and was turned down. I live in a rural area and teachers are hard to come by. So the jist of this is that If you want it bad enough you can get it. The time it takes is up to you. IMHO

He speaks the truth. I "want it" badly. The first time I touched a guitar was 4 or 5 months ago, and I started looking into theory as well. Now I completely understand guitar, and I can have an intellectual discussion with those people on the music theory forum.

Keep on Truckin'
-Reign of Praine

[Jed]

The first time I touched a guitar was 4 or 5 months ago, and I started looking into theory as well. Now I completely understand guitar, and I can have an intellectual discussion with those people on the music theory forum.
(( shakes head and mumbles unintelligibly ))

[LaughingSkull]

Now I completely understand guitar, and I can have an intellectual discussion with those people on the music theory forum.

Finally somebody does! :eek:

[Reign of Praine]

Yeah, that was a little stuck up. Of course not COMPLETELY, I'm not Jimi Hendrix.

[LaughingSkull]

Yeah, that was a little stuck up. Of course not COMPLETELY, I'm not Jimi Hendrix.

Alas, Jimi died too young. Would he live longer he would have learned so much much more. ;)

[Chino_rebel]

I need to go dig it up but interestingly enough natural talent has more to do with skill acquisition than amount of time spent practicing (This is why you don't see many average looking NFL players, it takes lots of practice to become good -- and you can be a very good football player just by training a lot, but at a certain level genetics will be the bar that keeps you at 90% of NFL level etc.) I've seen that in a peer-reviewed medical medical journal but I don't know if I'll be able to find it again.

-Dan

Look, I don't want to go into how I know this, but this aligns perfectly with my own real-life observations and experience.

In fact I came up with a sort of formula: Talent, Interest, Dedication. You could take 100 people and have 'em try out something, and say 5 might have Talent. Then out of that 5 maybe 3 will have an actual Interest in it, and out of that 3 maybe one will have the Dedication to go anywhere with it.

I think a big trap is when you get a kid who shows the Talent, so the parents push them to do it, automatically assuming that they'll have the other two things too. But well, according to what I just wrote, that's a one out of five shot, and it's probably a longer shot than that. And they'll end up hating it or just not caring for it overly much, anyway. A good example of this is a kid who lived up the street from us, Fielding Benson, brother of the noted female surfer Becky Benson. Fielding was pushed like crazy by his parents, and the end result was his talent at balancing on a board went into skateboarding, and Becky, who was probably not pushed nearly as hard because female surfers weren't esteemed much in the 70s, went on to be a happy, successful, and GOOD surfer.

Another trap is the trap that if you have talent, you don't have to work so hard. Easy to fall into especially if you've never had to work hard at anything. But in truth, well, if you have Talent then assuming you want to do the thing, it basically means you ought to work harder than the other guy, because you'll actually get somewhere!

Talent is real, that's for sure. Lots of people like to say there's no such thing as talent, just hard work, but then you get these newbs in anything who just race by everyone and have learned a ton in something like 2 years.

But all the same, I have seen people in a thing without much talent, but they enjoy the hell out of it, they never get very good but they have one hell of a good time. No they didn't put in hours of training, didn't have an insane VO2 max or concentration like a laser beam, but they sure as hell enjoyed themselves.

[Zaduro]

This sounds like a good question for Voodoo Child!;)
Some people just kinda pick up the guitar not really wanting it that badly but the more they learn, the more addicting it gets. Always raising the bar. If you really ;)want it bad, then practicing should be pretty fun in itself.

yeah that sounds like me xD i started at my school, an alternative school, not many people go to it i got sent there cuz i was bad in school cuz of a bad day basicly...

anyways, i went to that school for a whole year i got into rock climbing then that teacher left cuz his wife had to go to school for DR. stuff or get training or something.

well the next year, a new teacher that worked there for a while started an intrest group. it was called intro to guitar it was a class of about um 10 people. i hatet the acoustic guitars but i stuck with it sort of. the acoustic guitar wasnt as interesting sounding as electric distortion, but i got used to it and well i just messed arround fingering randome stuff putting together what ever i thought sounded good, loved nylon so much i need to get myself some of those strings... it hurt less then steel strings, so i kept at least messing arround and i pretty much do that now all the time... i can at least use all my fingers none of them are allways just sitting there uselessly :)

well i still hate steel string acoustic style but i like it better, i mean its not totaly atroshiouse to me anymore iv come to start likeing it actualy. still need to kill my feeling in my fingers.

anyways now im looking for information

[ketch18]

if your really into it and u love what ur doing, it wont take long..just focus in whatever u want to do..and the next thing u knew ur doin it perfectly good..goodluck!!:D

[tresz08]

The length of time to get good in playing a guitar is depend on the interest that you will be give while practicing on it.just be much more patient in doing it and enjoy every little thing that you've learned about playing a guitar. ;)

[stopGoGo]

First post!
I'd like to chime in and tell you my story real fast.
I googled this question of how long does it take to learn guitar and it has taken me to this forum. I have a much broader understanding how guitars work now just by reading on. I always had the thought that once you get it, you just get guitar and all songs, lol... i guess it does not quite work that way.

Anyway, have you ever been so in love that you thought the world you see is inside that other person or significant other? Have you than ever been dumped in the most cruelest way and taken advantage of, from the same person you just so much loved.... ? Well that has happened to me in the last year.

I have to tell you this before you can understand because at this early stage I have found out what makes a great guitar player.
I loved my girl and she has burned me with another, took my cash and my heart. All I could think of is our song we heard together one last time which just so happened to be Everlong. I played it on my computer so much that my neighbors started to complain but its all i could think of, her and that stupid song. So my sister had an guitar laying around and out of curiosity I tried to figure out how this song went and as soon as I picked up the guitar I knew I had to play this song no matter what as fast as I could. Researched tabs and looked at a billion videos and learned how to play it in less than two weeks. I have had no musical talents or instruments that I have played. I just had a longing desire to learn this song and I did. I can now hammer strings to control the beat of the intro just like dave does (monkey see monkey do) I will perfect this song and play it for her so I can tell her to go **** herself because she has lost one great guy. Its been my inspiration and my fingers are purple but I just keep going. If I find how to post pictures I will show you what my index and ring finger look like from holding down those two notes for hours on end.


Sorry to make this so long but I wanted you to see that in the end, It really depends on your desire. How bad do you want it? I speed on my bicycle back home after work without nothing in mind but to get there and play my song untill i get it better than dave.

[learnsingingonl]

It took me 2 weeks. I was really interested way back so I was really determined to learn. Its kinda hard but if there's a will there's a way. LOL

[daystar]

WOW! You are a quick study my friend! I have been playing for 33 years and I am still learning...This site inparticular lets me know just how much I have yet to learn. But alas...in the struggle lies the glory...

[JonR]

I learned from a book called "Play In A Day" (Bert Weedon):
http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/articles/InBetweenTimes/BertWeedon.jpg
It's now 44 years later and I'm still at it.
I'm going to sue the bastard...

[daystar]

ROFL!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is some seriously funny stuff Jon!!!!

[NG7]

I think he's actually revised that book to "Play In 45 Years".

Best-seller that one.

You're almost there!

[JonR]

Thanks guys.

You might like to know Mr Weedon is still at it too...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bert-Weedons-Play-Day-Guitar/dp/0571529658/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242932410&sr=1-1

Last time I looked at this book in a shop (year or two ago) I'd swear he hasn't updated it since the original edition (early 60s? late 50s?). He just gets a new photo done every decade.
That's chutzpah for ya... :)

Don't knock it tho. You know you go into a music shop today you'll see literally 100s of guitar manuals? Racks, walls full of em. You wanted a guitar manual in Britain in the early/mid 60s, this was It. The Only One. Believe it.
Beck, Page, Clapton, they all knew this book. (Mind you, I bet they put it down after a while with a superior smirk...)

[Los Boleros]

I am still trying to figure that one out.

[Crossroads]

I learned from a book called "Play In A Day" (Bert Weedon):
http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/articles/InBetweenTimes/BertWeedon.jpg
It's now 44 years later and I'm still at it.
I'm going to sue the bastard...

Ha, ha ... yeah, it's bloody hilarious that, isn't it ... "Play in a Day" ... four shillings and sixpence (" I saw you coming! ") ... well he didn't actually say which day lol ... maybe he didn't mean day one ... he meant day 46,503! :eek:

Ian.

[learnsingingonl]

Learning to play a guitar really takes time, effort and dedication to become a master on it.

[alexisj]

Ever since. it was my frustration, to learn playing a guitar.
I've tried myself, training playing a guitar..

And why is that there are people like, whatever they tried, they could hardly learn it..

[Crossroads]

And why is that there are people like, whatever they tried, they could hardly learn it..

"Whatever they tried"? Nah .... the real answer is that actually they didn't try much at all.

They often think they are trying. They think they are making a big effort. But actually their "big effort" is only a tiny fraction of what successful people do.

You want to play like Satriani (or whoever), fine ... then be prepared to give up everything else for 10 years and just practice/study guitar/music 8 hours every day.

Ian.

[alexisj]

That was quite long..8 hours..really..!
Eagerness really pays if one really put dedication in learning playing a guitar.

[JonR]

You don't need 8 hours a day. 3 hours a day for 10 years will get you the proverbial 10,000 hours apparently needed to attain "mastery" - professional level skill. (I guess more than that may elevate you to "genius" level, but I doubt it. A genius is probably someone who wants to do more than that to begin with.)
That's 3 hours every day, mind. 10 whole years. You want holidays, or a social life? Better add an hour a day for every day you take off. In fact, if you contemplate taking ANY day off from guitar playing, you probably won't make it as a player. If there is anything else you prefer to do, that's a bad sign.:)
Great musicians come from those you have to beg to stop playing once in a while, not the ones who moan about practising.

There is an argument about "quality" practice time as opposed to "quantity" ("I spend hours but never get anywhere..."). But IMO, the quality comes from the enjoyment of playing. If you enjoy it, you're learning (or at least improving), and it's quality time. If you get bored or tired playing, you're doing it wrong (or have maybe been playing several hours non-stop...).
I guess it's about using your ears at least as much as your fingers...

(And if we're talking about commercial success and fame, of course, that's about getting out there and meeting people, putting yourself about. And being reasonably young and good-looking can't hurt either... :rolleyes: )

[alexisj]

If one really wants to learn about that stuff...one should have the interest and eagerness as I've said before...

As long as you put passion on what you are doing, then you'd probably succeed on it.

[Crossroads]

These things are not written in stone. You could probably do it far quicker than 8 hours and 10 years, providing you have all the right attributes of intelligence, perfect environment, great encouragement help & motivation, ideal hands etc., as well as the total dedication.

Take a look at this clip of violinist Nigel Kennedy, and ask yourself how much work you think it took to play like that -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLkRlbVYcI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLkRlbVYcI)

Ian.

[Crossroads]

I guess more than that may elevate you to "genius" level, but I doubt it. A genius is probably someone who wants to do more than that to begin with.)
Yes. Though I really don't know what to make of ideas about players being musical geniuses. At that stratospheric level I think all bets & basic logic are probably off.

There is an argument about "quality" practice time as opposed to "quantity" ("I spend hours but never get anywhere..."). But IMO, the quality comes from the enjoyment of playing. If you enjoy it, you're learning (or at least improving), and it's quality time. If you get bored or tired playing, you're doing it wrong (or have maybe been playing several hours non-stop...).

I guess it's about using your ears at least as much as your fingers...
I think perhaps when people are really serious about their practice, then they make it into "quality time", simply because they actually don't want to skimp on things. So they do stop to think about and analyse what they are playing, to see how that fits with general theory, and why they might be able to play the same exercises in other positions, other keys, from other scales, in other variations etc. They try more to understand each thing they practice/play, because they actually care about it.

And if we're talking about commercial success and fame, of course, that's about getting out there and meeting people, putting yourself about. And being reasonably young and good-looking can't hurt either... )
Again, I think all bets are off if the aim is purely commercial. In that case you might succeed even if you can't play a note and never practiced anything ... you might get away with miming everything and looking good through media packaging ... you might even succeed as a virtual artist, ie without even existing except as binary code on a computer :D .

Ian.

[JonR]

I think perhaps when people are really serious about their practice, then they make it into "quality time", simply because they actually don't want to skimp on things. So they do stop to think about and analyse what they are playing, to see how that fits with general theory, and why they might be able to play the same exercises in other positions, other keys, from other scales, in other variations etc. They try more to understand each thing they practice/play, because they actually care about it.Exactly. It's a question of caring, and also being curious. Not focussing too narrowly on particular technical issues (which get boring or arduous).
Even when it's hard physical work, it's fun because it's a challenge, you can see the goal. But you also have plenty of other goals.
I think my main point is actual enjoyment of the process - when we talk about "working on" a technique, riff, or song, or whatever, it isn't really "work" is it, let's face it! :rolleyes: It's recreation. That's the only way you can maintain the level of commitment necessary.

Of course, once people start paying you to play stuff, it's easy to lose sight of the recreational side...
Again, I think all bets are off if the aim is purely commercial. In that case you might succeed even if you can't play a note and never practiced anything ... you might get away with miming everything and looking good through media packaging ... you might even succeed as a virtual artist, ie without even existing except as binary code on a computer :D .
I think you still need some kind of musical sensibility, at least to last beyond a one-hit wonder (which can be constructed entirely by producers and admen). I think the public (even a young audience) still retain an old-fashioned belief that someone who looks like they're singing or playing should at least have some actual input into it, some basic technical skill, even if there is (always) some studio trickery to put their wrong notes right or generally scatter fairy dust on the sound.

[Crossroads]

Even when it's hard physical work, it's fun because it's a challenge, you can see the goal. But you also have plenty of other goals.

I think my main point is actual enjoyment of the process - when we talk about "working on" a technique, riff, or song, or whatever, it isn't really "work" is it, let's face it! It's recreation. That's the only way you can maintain the level of commitment necessary.

I think that's true. Though there are also times when, after a few hours, you really want to stop. Or times when you'd rather go out with friends or whatever. But where really serious players will stick to the practice timetable despite all that.

Also, I don't know about you, but I have a number of short technical exercise ("etudes"?), which I just enjoy playing for the sake of the trying to get the fretting, picking and "feeling/expression" the way I want it ... ie pieces where it's almost a different type of enjoyment to keep practicing them (eg a current example for me is Caprice No.10).

I think you still need some kind of musical sensibility, at least to last beyond a one-hit wonder (which can be constructed entirely by producers and admen). I think the public (even a young audience) still retain an old-fashioned belief that someone who looks like they're singing or playing should at least have some actual input into it, some basic technical skill, even if there is (always) some studio trickery to put their wrong notes right or generally scatter fairy dust on the sound.

Again I do agree with that. But I think the more commercial your aims, the less seriously you have to take the dedicated practice (you probably wouldn't even bother with guitar ... pick something easier, such as singing) ... though I don't usually regard that sort of stuff as proper musicianship ... it may still provide a fine "show" in the sense of "show-business", and there's clearly a big market for that (in saying that, I'm not thinking so much of catchy pop tunes, which may be much harder to write and produce than appears on the face of things).

Perhaps it's pompous of me to say it, but I do have much more respect when I think someone has really worked to achieve a high level of playing ability (say Nigel Kennedy) vs. others who are clearly in music to make a "show" (say Britney Spears).

All just 2:cents of course, :) .

Ian.

[Blutwulf]

Heed my voice of experience when I say that it only takes about 10 years to forget how to play.

[ChainsawGuitar]

If you're Zakk Wylde, it takes 4 years, and then you're famous the rest of your life...

...if you happen to be Zakk Wylde...

I think its all about your drive to learn and, most importantly, your drive to push yourself to do new things. If you want to get good, the best thing to do is to constantly push back the boundries of what you know and are able to do.

The easiest way to do that is to get a teacher, and talk to other guitarists to learn from them and what they know. Hence this forum :)

[Crossroads]

If you're Zakk Wylde, it takes 4 years, and then you're famous the rest of your life...

...if you happen to be Zakk Wylde...

I think its all about your drive to learn and, most importantly, your drive to push yourself to do new things. If you want to get good, the best thing to do is to constantly push back the boundries of what you know and are able to do.

The easiest way to do that is to get a teacher, and talk to other guitarists to learn from them and what they know. Hence this forum

Well the guy above (LearnSingingOnly) only needed 2 weeks ... though he did say he was very keen :D .

A teacher can only be of limited help. Important, yes ... but still nowhere near as important as your own dedicated practice. In the end, no matter how good your teacher, your progress will be 99% all your own work.

Jimmy Bruno (jazz guitarist) says on his DVD " if you just want to play some songs with your friends then maybe one hour a day is enough, or if you want to play some local bars and clubs for beer money then you need maybe 3 hours a day, but if you want to play jazz professionally, you need to practice all the hours you possibly can, 10 hours a day " ... he's also referring to himself when he says that, and at a rough guess he was aged about 45 when he made that DVD, ie he's saying that he has typically tried to practice up to 10 hours a day all through his playing life.

Jeff Beck says he still practices about 3 hours a day, and he's now aged about 65.

In that clip of Nigel Kennedy, I'd guess he's aged about 50. Without checking, I'd also guess he started playing around the age of 6. And since then I'd bet he's practiced for many hours almost every day of his life, and probably still does practice several hours a day.

In my experience, famous guitarists are hopelessly unreliable when stating how they learnt to play and how many hours they practiced. Either they have complete memory loss, or else they really just don't want to say. If you listen to enough Paul Gilbert interviews, then you can get the general impression (although I've never heard him say it explicitly), and I think he practiced about 4 or 5 hours most days from the age of about 9 or 10 (though he had first lessons at 6). Then he had a period of practicing much more than that ... and by the age of 18 or 19 he was playing and practicing all day every day with various bands ... I expect that equated to about 6 to 8 hours a day from the age of about 10 to 17.

Zakk Wylde? .... who knows (shrugs).

Ian.

[dantheguitarman]

It obviously varies per person - there is no one cut off point for everyone.

It usually comes down to how long it takes for a person to make a sound they enjoy hearing - so it's completely subjective and as much to do with expectations.

I have taught young kids who have 'learned' to play guitar very quickly - we're talking weeks. By this I mean after a few weeks they are playing simple songs they enjoy playing.

However, if by 'learn' the guitar you mean playing like Zak Wylde, or some other guitar hero, you may never 'learn'. By this standard I still haven't learnt and Ive been playing for 25 years!!!

My advice to everyone is start simple.

Have a look on this page for some simple songs to play:

http://www.dantheguitarman.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

They might not be the songs you want to play in the long run, but you will be able to pluck a couple of recognizable tunes in less than an hour i reckon, and you can start practicing the basics. If a six yr old can do it!

[joeyd929]

It obviously varies per person - there is no one cut off point for everyone.

It usually comes down to how long it takes for a person to make a sound they enjoy hearing - so it's completely subjective and as much to do with expectations.

I have taught young kids who have 'learned' to play guitar very quickly - we're talking weeks. By this I mean after a few weeks they are playing simple songs they enjoy playing.

However, if by 'learn' the guitar you mean playing like Zak Wylde, or some other guitar hero, you may never 'learn'. By this standard I still haven't learnt and Ive been playing for 25 years!!!

My advice to everyone is start simple.

Have a look on this page for some simple songs to play:

http://www.dantheguitarman.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

They might not be the songs you want to play in the long run, but you will be able to pluck a couple of recognizable tunes in less than an hour i reckon, and you can start practicing the basics. If a six yr old can do it!

Yeah, I started in 1972 for 1 year and quit, then started again in 1977 and since then it's been 32 years. Of that 32 years, overall, I stopped playing here and there for a total of about 5 years. So I guess 25 years is about accurate for me too.

I still can't play my way out of a paper bag when it comes to things like jazz or shred. I think maybe it's genetic. Lol...