i am no good at barre chords

[fortymile]

i really suck at a few important things on guitar.

how many of you, when you make a fifth string major barre chord (1, 5, octave, 3) use just your index and ring finger? most players i see do this. but i cant get it to sound properly all the time. it is also difficult to shift down to a minor chord if your fingers are arranged this way. consequently, i have always made this chord by using an extra finger--my pinky. it's still hard to minorize the chord when i need to shift from major to minor, but i seem to be faster at it using the extra finger. but im unhappy: it can be hard to squeeze all three fingers into a small fret accurately and it seems amateur. what should i do? is it important to be able to use the ring finger for a second barre on that type of fifth string major chord or doesnt it matter too much?

question 2: generally, i SUCK at picking the individual notes of barre chords. this is a problem because i use barre chords a hell of a lot. almost exclusively, in many songs. but ask me to pick notes from the chord and i either 1) miss them with my picking hand (im not going to practice this because it bores me--only if i need to learn a passage will i bother doing picking exercises. too many other problems to worry about now) or 2) i dont get a clean sound, or the note is muted, because dont have the notes solidly fretted in the left due to an unstable barre. but the thing is: i do have a strong hand, and my action is low (i think). so whats my problem and how can i fix it? am i supposed to be minutely adjusting the pressure in the barre in the left hand to be stronger over a particular string when i want to directly pick a note on that string? or shouldnt it matter? should a proper barre always sound any given picked note the instant you pluck it?

[Mateo150]

yes, you should be able to pluk any note in a barre chord you intend to sound. On the 5th string triad you talk about, I actually use my ring and pinky finger, this is much better in my opinion since it allows for easier sliding, little licks you wanna throw in, and is generally more effiecient. These problems your having are just a practice thing. Keep playing, in a couple months it'll feel more comfortable and you'll have better tone, and it'll just be easier. Just part of the overall skill with guitar. Also, you should try to fret the strings with the tips of your fingers, perpendicular to the strings... use the area a centimeter below your fingernail tip. For picking individual notes, practice songs to get better, I feel that the right hand is more important than the left hand. Watch some banjo players or some bluegrass flatpickers, that all right hand stuff. Remember to relax, one tip, when you barre a chord, you should be relaxed enough that if someone comes and gives you a light slap down on your left forearm, it should be knocked off easily. No easy fix for ya here, just practice... or better yet, learn songs.

[fortymile]

but dude ive been playing for 12 years.

barre chords, a lot of them, always and forever.

are we talking about the same chord, btw? you should need more than just pinky and ring. the chord is root, then 5th, then octave, then third. i need index, middle, ring, and pinky.

[rmuscat]

fortymile ...

i usually use the ring finger to do those barre chords, generally its clean enough ... often though the 1st is muted, when that happen it means my mini-barre is not curved backwards enough or my ring finger should move slightly up.

as for barre chords in general take in consideration whether you hand is tired (maybe after an instense barre chord session obviously they will start sounding worse as the hand gets tired).

1 more thing - do you just use your thumb for strength? Maybe you should help a bit with you arm by pulling all of it to make pressure on the fretboard? If you don't see how it feels, don't do it too strong or you actually change the intonation of the guitar (been there done that lol) or break the neck :eek: :rolleyes: :D

anyway my 2c don't know if it makes anysense

[ashc]

I realised that my chord playing was bad a while back. I can only suggest..

1. add systematic chord workouts to your practice. 2. do them on acoustic too - esp. the 1st position ones - are you as good as you think at these even, I found that I wasn't outside of my favourites.

I think that chords really do need to be worked on just like picking, legato etc. It's curious that most of these workout programs neglect them since you'll play these more than solos.

Right, now I'm off on holiday

[Factor]

Hmm hard to address this over the net. Have you thought of getting a teacher, for sorting out this specific problem?

[debaser]

More practice usually holds the answer to these mechanical issues. I'd go with that.

[Mateo150]

but dude ive been playing for 12 years.

barre chords, a lot of them, always and forever.

are we talking about the same chord, btw? you should need more than just pinky and ring. the chord is root, then 5th, then octave, then third. i need index, middle, ring, and pinky.thought you said a power chord... Ok, I use my index and ring finger for that one, most of the time. But Sometimes I play it like how you mentioned before if it involves lots of licks and such, most of the time I play it with index and ring, and it sounds very clean. 12 years... hmmm. I dunno then. I think getting a teacher might help, If you can't pick individual notes in a barre chord after 12, that may be a testiment to the kind of music you play than the material you practice. Most people I meet that have been playing that long don't have these problems, and can usually pick like a madman.

[fortymile]

well i mean, i can pick the notes, but they just dont sound ALL the time. in any barre chord i can always pick the first three or four notes cleanly (unless i'm doing the 'two finger major barre,' which is sketchier). after that it is hit or miss.

rmuscat can you explain what you mean about the thumb? i'm having a hard time understanding what you're getting at there but i assume youre asking if my thumb braces itself against the back of the neck? yes: very solidly. (is it really possible to screw up intonation just through something youre doing w/ your thumb?)

ok, so mainly this thread was asking to see how unusual what ive got going on is, among i guess what youd call longtime intermediate players like myself. i was curious as to how many of you actually forego the two-finger barre in favor of using all your digits to fret a 5th string major barre. (i want to know i'm not alone in that.) and wanted to see if anyone else is fairly inconsistent in sounding notes within a barre and if there are specific things to do with your hand that can remedy this. i shouldnt have capitalized 'suck' because this problem is just bad enough to make me feel like a sloppy player. but its not as if every note in there is muted.

[mjo]

....but ask me to pick notes from the chord and i either 1) miss them with my picking hand (im not going to practice this because it bores me--only if i need to learn a passage will i bother doing picking exercises. too many other problems to worry about now).....

fortymile, This sounds like you're asking "how can I get better at this without practicing ?" :confused: If this is something you want to execute, you will have to practice it.

As far as the chording, I use the technique you're talking about, (index / ring) exclusively for that voicing. If I'm using more than two fingers, it will be a slightly different voicing, (playing the 5th on the 1st string, etc..)
Try changing the angle of your arm. Try bracing your thumb a little differently, (position). Try some stretching excersises, on the fretboard. This may help you to apply the pressure the way you need to.
It doesn't really matter how long you've been playing, if you can't do something to your satisfaction, you need to practice it more and / or modify your approach / technique.

[insert debaser quote here] ;)

-best,
Mike

[fortymile]

"fortymile, This sounds like you're asking "how can I get better at this without practicing ?" :confused: If this is something you want to execute, you will have to practice it."


--thanks, but no. i have no patience for picking exercises and dont do a lot of intricate picking anyway. i have the ability to 'forgive' my picking hand and focus on the broad structure of what i'm working on until such time as i need to execute well, at which point i practice the right hand. i'm a songwriter who learns proper execution of his parts only when he needs to. but i do need to have the general ability to fret any chord cleanly, and that i would practice eagerly.

[joe34]

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If your talking about that chord i generally use index and pinky. The only time i use index and ring is higher up the neck when space starts to get tight i probably switch around the 7th fret or when the song calls for it like the the start of van halen - panama where you need to use pinky to fret extra notes.

If your putting your index on the low E string that might cause some problems. Only have it on the A string and have it mute the low E. I had some problems with the A shaped barre chord till i did that. Other than that i dunno it took me a few months to really get barre chords down (fast switching) after i already had a handle on them.

Something must be up if your playing 12 years and still have problems. Are you using really thick strings or anything weird with your guitar setup, is this on an acoustic guitar? If its not the guitar i guess you'll just have to get someone to check you out in person and see whats up.

[rmuscat]

rmuscat can you explain what you mean about the thumb? i'm having a hard time understanding what you're getting at there but i assume youre asking if my thumb braces itself against the back of the neck? yes: very solidly. (is it really possible to screw up intonation just through something youre doing w/ your thumb?)

sorry for not being clear ...

what i meant is that maybe you should use more your arm to make strenght on the barre chord ...

be patient for a second ...
start second
imagine not using the thumb at all you just make pressure on the fingerboard by pulling all you arm back against it - you get what i mean with that? Obviously pushing or pulling against the neck will change intonation (you're actually forcing it forward and backward). So there no use of the thumb in here.
end second

Now having tried that ... you can use that (little) extra strength in conjuction with the thumb at the back of the neck to get them clean. Obviously you don't want to put too much strength to bend the neck or to stop you from moving to the next chord.

To be honest i don't know how right/valid this is ... but there was a period i've been doing this.

as you know i'm not really an expert (usual disclaimer) so i may be waaaayy wrong...

[fortymile]

hey yes that's the chord. i've never heard of anyone using a pinky . i'll have to try that.

yes, i am very good at muting extra strings. my sixth never rings when i dont want it to. i'm not always as good at UNmuting unintentionally muted strings, though: if i try to do the ring-finger barre for this chord, for instance, the first string (high e string) is almost always muted. often too, in the attempt to get that finger lifted up so that the high E will ring, i lose the B string to poor pressure and it just mutes and dies. it's a conundrum!

my strings are nothing too thick. i often use slinky hybrids, which i think are thicker low strings and thinner highs. otherwise i get a mid grade slinky set.

and i think rmuscat is telling me to exert more downward force from my arm while keeping my thumb as a brace, thus solidifying the barre's contact upon the neck...

[joe34]

You can play that chord with or without the high e string ringing personally i think it sounds better without it and i think most people play it without it?.
The chord sounds more wimpy to me with the high e thrown in and i dont think theres that many situations where you need it. So dont worry about the high E. Heres a piece of useless information play the rhythm guitar behind gnr - sweet child of mine solo with the high e ringing and it sounds exactly like that kate bush song i cant remember the name right now :D

As far as pinky vs ring goes alot of people use pinky its not an unorthodox way to play the chord i say more people play it with the ring finger because thats how they play powerchords and they learnt powerchords first. I learnt barrechords first and found pinky easier i use ring finger for powerchords but again you can play powerchords with pinky aswell, theres nothing weird about it.

[Mateo150]

I got this tip way back when I first started. It was for a full barre chord, with the lowest string as the bass. But I was told to visualize it this way. The outside part of your index finger is bony. Holding a ball in your left hand, gradually bring your index finger and thumb closer together. Your index finger will approach the thumb with the bony outside part of the finger. This is the part you should fret with, and also the type of pressure you should apply to get the cleanest sound with the least pressure. Don't know if this helps for the chord your talking about since it doesn't really involve the index finger to fret more than one string.

[rmuscat]

and i think rmuscat is telling me to exert more downward force from my arm while keeping my thumb as a brace, thus solidifying the barre's contact upon the neck...

yes!

phew... ;)

[fortymile]

thanks guys

[debaser]

"fortymile, This sounds like you're asking "how can I get better at this without practicing ?" :confused: If this is something you want to execute, you will have to practice it."


--thanks, but no. i have no patience for picking exercises and dont do a lot of intricate picking anyway. i have the ability to 'forgive' my picking hand and focus on the broad structure of what i'm working on until such time as i need to execute well, at which point i practice the right hand. i'm a songwriter who learns proper execution of his parts only when he needs to. but i do need to have the general ability to fret any chord cleanly, and that i would practice eagerly.

I think you may be misunderstanding mjo's intent.

Also, I can't help but notice that whenever the subject of practice comes up, you are very quick to disavow any need to spend more time practicing guitar, because you are primarily a songwriter. While this may be accurate, I also think that you are re-classifying yourself unecessarily. A musician, is a musician, is a musician, to paraphrase Gertrude Stein. In point of fact, I don't consider myself a shredder by any means, nor is playing lead guitar well my exclusive goal - most of the time, it's strictly an amusing diversion. I'm sure a lot of others here would say the same. However, the fact that composition is my primary goal doesn't prevent me from practicing guitar for at least an hour a day because I like to be able to use the instrument as I see fit at any given time, whether that entails sweeping an arpeggio, fretting a barre chord, or any number of useful effects which practicing has allowed me to achieve.