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shredder123569
02-25-2005, 07:14 PM
Has anyone here developed perfect pitch? I'm not talking about the people that were born with it, but someone that started out with a bad ear and developed it.

RohanJM
02-25-2005, 07:20 PM
Has anyone here developed perfect pitch? I'm not talking about the people that were born with it, but someone that started out with a bad ear and developed it.

Im getting ther i can get a C from memory

Ro

silent-storm
02-25-2005, 11:51 PM
A year ago I had nothing. Now I have C, G, F#, C#, F and A on most piano's and about half that on my guitar.

My goal is all 12 notes on any piano by the end of the summer. I'm finding that it starts to get faster after you get the first 2 or 3 down and get a feel for the process. The reason why I do piano is because I've always been able to hear stuff easier on it and it's a lot easier to find people to test me.

Good luck...and yes it can happen. The other day I woke up hearing a C perfectly for the first time...I mean the actual colour loud and clear in my head without having heard a note that day. Rather exciting when it first happens.

RohanJM
02-26-2005, 05:33 AM
yup its crazy, i too woke up one day just knowing what a C sounded like the i checked with the piano it was right. You also get software to help you at OLGA or somewhere.

Ro

rmuscat
02-26-2005, 08:54 AM
you might be interested in these two old still interesting threads:

this (http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157&highlight=perfect+pitch) and this (http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5596&highlight=perfect+pitch)

silent-storm
02-26-2005, 10:07 AM
I would also like to add, and I have stated this a number of times, that I am a firm believer that the 'david lucas burge supercourse,' that you will undoubtedly hear much about if you haven't already, would be absolutely useless to me if I didn't have someone to test me on a regular basis. When I started working with it, it wasn't doing anything for me because my physical memory of my instrument was to the point where I could instantaniously narrow down what note I was playing within a semi-tone or two. Then I got people to test me on a regular basis which led to good results. But I've since started just developing my own tests because I've come to the realization that his method doesn't work best for me. I'm not a big fan of staying within diatonic C Major for the first 12 of the 24 lessons and then slowly adding one note at a time...just give me all 12 chromatics right away and I'll be happy thank you very much.

Money well spent to a degree because I had no idea what I was doing in the begining...so it's all good...but you gotta kinda figure out how best you learn ear training...just like everything else in music.

underfaced
03-15-2005, 03:02 AM
But im wondering.........how can you train your ear ????...no one has really stated a good way to gain near perfect pitch

Mannet
03-28-2005, 06:57 PM
Ok, some reckon now that the brains response to music is refined by age. Young children will prefer consonant sounds compared to the varied dissonance we hear now. This is because their brains have found a pattern in music with how the notes are found, and the weight given to notes of certain frequencies is greater because of this. As we grow up our brains notice more and more patterns, and so our idea of what an A is is effectively watered down.
That should have made enough sense...
Children generally have very good perfect pitch, and as we grow we lose this ability. The only way to reclaim this ability is to listen to the note we want to be able to pitch a lot. By listening to it more, you are gradually putting a label on it (I guess in a way it's a bit like remembering colours, I mean, where does blue end and green begin? Yet we can recognise each with ease). Perfect pitch is obviously useful for playing and transcribing, and later on should allow you to begin hearing the different colours of different strings and such, and so aid composition.

wiechfreak
03-29-2005, 06:39 AM
I too am interested in learning how you guys have gotten as far as u have on it, and how much time it took you to get there?

silent-storm
03-29-2005, 08:52 AM
I've really gone back to the basics in the past while with perfect pitch. I'm just trying to get the notes in my head. I've realized that there is a difference between thinking of the note and knowing what it sounds like and actually physically hearing it in your head as though there was an instrument in the room playing it.

So all I do is sit and play a single note. Sing it, play it and then sit and think about the note until the switch is made between thinking of the note and physically hearing it. If it doesn't happen in a minute or so I play and sing the note again. Then I get up and try and do trivial activities while keeping the note in my head...walk around my house, check the mailbox etc. Stuff that doesn't take thought, but requires you to concentrate very hard on the note in your head. Then when the note is lost I go back, check to make sure it hadn't shifted while in my head and I move on to the next one. I find it's best in the morning when you're fresh and haven't heard much music.

There are no methods to go about gaining this skill. There are plenty of useful programs out there that can give you hints along the way but ultimately you're gonna have to sit and listen to a lot of notes for a very long time.

I've been working at it for about a year and am probably only about 1/4 of the way at the most...but I'm in music school so there have been long stretches where I haven't even looked at this stuff...but school has developed my relative pitch so it's kind of a give and take.

Always remember that ear training is a VERY global learning process in that everything you do, if you apply it correctly, will benefit your ear.

Mateo150
03-29-2005, 06:47 PM
Ok, some reckon now that the brains response to music is refined by age. Young children will prefer consonant sounds compared to the varied dissonance we hear now. This is because their brains have found a pattern in music with how the notes are found, and the weight given to notes of certain frequencies is greater because of this. As we grow up our brains notice more and more patterns, and so our idea of what an A is is effectively watered down.
That should have made enough sense...
Children generally have very good perfect pitch, and as we grow we lose this ability. The only way to reclaim this ability is to listen to the note we want to be able to pitch a lot. By listening to it more, you are gradually putting a label on it (I guess in a way it's a bit like remembering colours, I mean, where does blue end and green begin? Yet we can recognise each with ease). Perfect pitch is obviously useful for playing and transcribing, and later on should allow you to begin hearing the different colours of different strings and such, and so aid composition.I did an absurd post about this... "brain plasticity". I don't think all young children like consonat sounds, its just that that is what has been developed in their brains through repitition (of nursary rhymes) and such. The same principle applies to language as well (as far as patterns and all, example is the up down pitch of "Peek-a-boo" and when generally people have postitive/happy inflections in their voices). (my theory, not science -->) Think of latin kids, and hispanic music, its rather minor.

In educational settings, be in a very quiet room without external noise (a.k.a street noise), use headphones if possible, try to focus with attention so its not a chore, make it a game. Kids who suffer from language difficulties are helped by such systems, try to make it so that complete focus can be given to the activity in a like manner as a kid entralled within a video game. I'm not too big a fan of those electronic ear training type programs, its not that fun, but I still do about 10-20 questions a day. Transcribing is much more beneficial and fun IMO.

mac220
03-31-2005, 01:19 PM
you might be interested in these two old still interesting threads:

this (http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157&highlight=perfect+pitch) and this (http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5596&highlight=perfect+pitch)

Just to add credance to the view that is is possible to learn perfect pitch, check out Larry Carltons Star licks master sessions video, he was one of the hottest LA session players in the 80's. On the video he states that when he was learning to play the guitar he learnt perfect pitch by carrying pitch pipes with him all the time and constantly listening and testing himself. On the video he talks about how he can hear a car's engine noice change pitch as i drive past or the pitch of the sqeeky door in the house.

I don't think you need the perfect pitch CD's to learn perfect pitch, i bought a copy of the david L berge tapes years ago and they basicaly say F# has a vibrant sound and eb has a mellow sound. the exercises they give a fairly obvious. and involve learning each not one by one. No surprise there, as for the more advanced stuff you could quite easily work it out yourself.

If you want to learn perfect pitch as has been said spend time listening to the note. the process, as has been desribed already is very similar to learning relative pitch. In relative pitch you have to know the interval in mind, you then sing the interval of play to check it. The point when you acheive success is when you pick a randon note and think i'll sing a descending #5 and you can just hear it. Perfect pitch is the same you have to learn to hear the characteristic of the note which makes it a C. Initially you will hear the characteristic but not have it stored in your memory, this is reconition of the pitch, when you have the characteristic stored in your memory and can think a C sounds like this and sing it, you have vocal recall.

you know you have really got it when you get someone to play 11 out of the 12 notes in an octave and you can hear the missing note, because its own characteristic is missing

Regards,

Mark

wiechfreak
03-31-2005, 05:47 PM
I never quite understood why one would work so hard and long at gaining perfect pitch. I mean I doubt even the majority of great guitar legends have had it. Ive seen a couple people with perfect pitch (one born with it the other my dads friend gained it over a 4 year period) and they were pretty good players but it didnt seem their perfect pitch made them that muchbetter musicians. Just my $0.02

Schmaus
04-01-2005, 02:39 AM
You could be a really good TAB transcriber :P.

But even transcribing, I think just knowing the intervals really well is good enough.

I guess it could help playing with other musicians as well. :cool:

silent-storm
04-01-2005, 03:53 AM
I never quite understood why one would work so hard and long at gaining perfect pitch. I mean I doubt even the majority of great guitar legends have had it. Ive seen a couple people with perfect pitch (one born with it the other my dads friend gained it over a 4 year period) and they were pretty good players but it didnt seem their perfect pitch made them that muchbetter musicians. Just my $0.02 I see what you are saying and I have never personally met someone around my age with perfect pitch that is significantly better then anyone else my age.

That being said...I read an interesting article a while back that basically said use history as your judge. In the average music school probably about 10% of the students have perfect pitch. The top schools have around 20%. The top orchestras have around 30-40% and around 60% of the top performers have perfect pitch. But if you look back at what we now consider to be the top composers of all time that number jumps to around 90% of them having perfect pitch...Now that isn't a number I find easy to ignore.

Speaking from experience, although limited, in my oppinion you haven't heard music until you've heard it with some degree of perfect pitch. Your awareness of everything just jumps astronomically.

I just view it as a skill like any other.

shredder123569
04-01-2005, 05:36 AM
Do you have perfect pitch? If so how long did it take to develop it? How old are you?

btangel
04-01-2005, 07:09 AM
I think we can get away with composing without having perfect pitch. Especially since we have all these neat programs like FL studio, reason and such. I'm sure there's a certain edge you'll have if you do have perfectpitch, or relative pitch. But I don't think it's a must for you to make good music.

Steve Vai doesn't have perfect pitch, and to me he's one of the greatest composers of today.

Mateo150
04-01-2005, 07:19 AM
Some interesting reading:



http://perfectpitch.ucsf.edu/ppstudy.html

follow the links of press releases for more info... My university is pursuing the "brain plasiticy" angle, in relation to perfect pitch, this would mean that perfect pitch is developed/established in dormant domanince before the age of 7 - thru genetics and/or cerebral development.

All of those who claim they have perf. pitch... take the test and let us know if you get into the survey... DO IT FOR SCIENCE

EDIT -funny thing too... most people who claimed to have Perf. pitch didn't have perfect pitch, whereas most of the people who DO qualify for being classifed as having perfect pitch claimed they didn't have perf. pitch..... guess all the guys in the previous threads talking up relative pitch probably have a point on that one...

Mateo150
04-01-2005, 07:50 AM
That being said...I read an interesting article a while back that basically said use history as your judge. In the average music school probably about 10% of the students have perfect pitch. The top schools have around 20%. The top orchestras have around 30-40% and around 60% of the top performers have perfect pitch. But if you look back at what we now consider to be the top composers of all time that number jumps to around 90% of them having perfect pitch...Now that isn't a number I find easy to ignore.

I just view it as a skill like any other.
Hmmm... sorry to ask, but can you reference the article. I'd sure like to read it. What do they consider perfect pitch and what do they consider a "top performer"... theres a lot of guys I can think of who admitt they don't have perf. pitch but I would consider a top performer.

Mateo150
04-01-2005, 08:06 AM
you might be interested in these two old still interesting threads:

this (http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157&highlight=perfect+pitch) and this (http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5596&highlight=perfect+pitch)
Just got done reading thru these, Thx for that Rob... d/l that GNU software, gonna check it out right now...

mac220
04-01-2005, 09:52 AM
I see what you are saying and I have never personally met someone around my age with perfect pitch that is significantly better then anyone else my age.

That being said...I read an interesting article a while back that basically said use history as your judge. In the average music school probably about 10% of the students have perfect pitch. The top schools have around 20%. The top orchestras have around 30-40% and around 60% of the top performers have perfect pitch. But if you look back at what we now consider to be the top composers of all time that number jumps to around 90% of them having perfect pitch...Now that isn't a number I find easy to ignore.

Speaking from experience, although limited, in my oppinion you haven't heard music until you've heard it with some degree of perfect pitch. Your awareness of everything just jumps astronomically.

I just view it as a skill like any other.It really depends on what kind of music you are looking to do. If you a playing improvisational music such as Jazz then Perfect pitch is of massive benefit. I've found my ability to learn lines, understand what other musicians are doing when playing live, transribing improved dramatically through having perfect pitch. Of Course it's different strokes for different folks.


The musicians who i played with who inspired me to learn perfect pitch were exeptional. Both of them piano players, and there grasp of music harmony and theory whilst improvising was beyond belief, not in a mechanical way but in a musical way, they always sounded musical. They both wrote amazing chord progressions. I once went to meet up with one of them, he got to the pub early. I found him transcribing the latest Branford Marsiellis CD he'd just brought, but not just the sax the piano and double bass as well. He'd been there an 1 1/2 and had done 3/4 of the first tune. Including solo's. I used to play a game with the other guy when improvising and trading 4's, i would play the most complex line i could imagine, everytime he could copy it and play it back note for note from one listen. For me ear training is integral to musicianship, with a limited ear you limit you abiility significantly. Alot of musicians especially rock players/shredders spent way too much time on technique and virtually no time on ear training, there playing reflects their practice, they sound like technial exercise.

After a quick search here's a list of people who are said to have perfect pitch, i don't know how accurate it is through

http://www.perfectpitchpeople.com/

Regards,

Mark

rmuscat
04-01-2005, 10:06 AM
I see what you are saying and I have never personally met someone around my age with perfect pitch that is significantly better then anyone else my age.

That being said...I read an interesting article a while back that basically said use history as your judge. In the average music school probably about 10% of the students have perfect pitch. The top schools have around 20%. The top orchestras have around 30-40% and around 60% of the top performers have perfect pitch. But if you look back at what we now consider to be the top composers of all time that number jumps to around 90% of them having perfect pitch...Now that isn't a number I find easy to ignore.

Just a question. Not putting down perfect pitch or anything.

These statistics are slightly unrelevant. Let me explain. 90% of the most famous composers had perfect pitch (as you said). Did that happen before they got famous or after? I mean if i (or anyone else for that matters) had a job composing and hence having to spend my days composing music, or just playing around and gigging i think it naturally follows.

Just my 2c

wiechfreak
04-01-2005, 05:58 PM
Im not saying they absulutely cannot because i dont know for sure but I highly doubt guys like kirk hammet, slash, etc have perfect pitch. The reason I say this is because in an interview slash said he cant even tell you the notes on a guitar. Same with Hendrix. And they seemed to do fine :D

Mateo150
04-01-2005, 06:55 PM
Sorry mac... read that list you have a link to... Hendrix is on it... He didn't have perfect pitch. Miles I'm not quite sure of either... anyway... don't trust that. Its just trying to sell you stuff. Oh, yeah, click on the explanation of why that person has "perf. pitch"... for Hendrix it said he would go to the local music store, strum some open strings, and go home and tune up.... Sounds like relative pitch memory to me.

Glad to hear you have perf. Pitch Mac... are you gonna take the University of California test? Most people who say they have perf. pitch don't.

mac220
04-01-2005, 11:57 PM
Sorry mac... read that list you have a link to... Hendrix is on it... He didn't have perfect pitch. Miles I'm not quite sure of either... anyway... don't trust that. Its just trying to sell you stuff. Oh, yeah, click on the explanation of why that person has "perf. pitch"... for Hendrix it said he would go to the local music store, strum some open strings, and go home and tune up.... Sounds like relative pitch memory to me.

Glad to hear you have perf. Pitch Mac... are you gonna take the University of California test? Most people who say they have perf. pitch don't.

Just took the test after getting back in from a night out, hear here's my results:

Below are the results of your Perfect Pitch Test

Congratulations! You have Perfect Pitch.

First name: Any

Last name: Any

Age: 29

AP rank: 1.00

Pure tone score: 35.75

Piano tone score: 21