time and pitch poll

[phantom]

what do you dudes and dudettes think is more important:

time: where and when a note is played
pitch: wich note is played


just a little poll for a change - and maybe start a discussion?

[UKRuss]

Nice one Sven!

I vote: TIME.

Justification:

I've heard pentatonic solos which make you weep they're so good, they're just using a very basic scale obviously but the timing, phrasing and placement of each note is what makes it so good. Such a skill.

Example: Clapton on John Mayall's Bluesbreakers.

[ashc]

I voted TIME as well.

If you play a wrong note at the right time isn't it better than a right note at the wrong time? Most of the time I get them both wrong :mad:

If you play a wrong note by mistake, play a right note then the wrong note again - sounds like you mean't it :D

A great skill (which I don't possess) is to be able to play with time too, to get different feels.. e.g. relaxed behind the beat (Reggae, Keith Richards) really early (Ska) or even the time borrowing rubato (Brian May) thing..

[rmuscat]

i vote time as well!! for many of the mentioned reasons. Good timing makes any note sound right ;)

of course i would prefer both ;)


And also drummers have really no pitch so all their work is based on timing. Drummers also give us the groove to play along. Whicih makes me think.

I was wondering, what if you take a solo played over a funky groove in 4/4 and put it over a straight "normal" groove (maybe just traditional rock) would it loose anything? Would it feel out?

Can you play a cool groove over lame backing tracks (no reference to russ LMAO!) ... always wondered about this. Does it give you just feel or is there somthing deeper going on, maybe theoretical?


WICKED POLL .... zven-the-man always makes the people scratch their head and think!

healthy too after a few "which player will we bust this week?" threads lol :p :D

[EricV]

I took the "easy way out" and voted for both. After all, to me, it´s pretty much impossible to tell which one is more important.
I agree that great timing can make even "dull melodies" sound cool, heck, even strumming on muted strings can sound cool if you have a good timing ( reminds me of "When I´m President" by Extreme )
At the same time, even though good timing makes simple stuff work, there are some melodies that are so beautiful that even bad timing can´t mess them up. Or, if you take Sven´s term "pitch" as "pitch when bending"... I don´t care how great the timing of someone is, if he bends notes badly out of tune ( I am not talking about those "bluesy overbends" which can sound cool ) I can´t enjoy myself listening to that...
Eric

[ashc]

I was wondering, what if you take a solo played over a funky groove in 4/4 and put it over a straight "normal" groove (maybe just traditional rock) would it loose anything? Would it feel out?

Hmmm.. interesting. Certainly the 2 styles can be mixed e.g. John Frusciante, mainly in the Blood Sugar Sex Magik era, and Eddie Hazel (Funkadelic).

On Eric's point/vote. When I voted I was assuming only the pitch of the note and as an absolute - like you hit the wrong fret or key - not any added inflexion like bends, vibrato etc. Of course, once you add bends to the equation they can definitely sound worse than anything (mine often do!).

I suppose violin players might all go with pitch - how you get good intonation on a neck that short I don't know.

[phantom]

good points out there everybody...

i'll keep my opinion secret as i started the thread. har har har...:D.

but by "pitch" i didn't mean "pitch when bend" - i guess eric is right when saying a bad bend kills everything even if it is in time.

i rather meant what's worse: playing wrong notes or playing out of time.
maybe the pollname is misleading...waAAaAAaHHhhHH i hope i didn't deleted by myself for rude language it up.

:eek: :cool:

[ashc]

Of course it could have been Poll about football. You can be there on time, but it's no good without a pitch to play on :D

[mattblack850]

I voted time, music is just like good comedy,

Timing is................................................ .................................................. .......
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everything!!!



Even a bad joke can make you laugh if it's told the right way!!
In the same way a wrong note can make you laugh or cry!!!

[EricV]

I was wondering, what if you take a solo played over a funky groove in 4/4 and put it over a straight "normal" groove (maybe just traditional rock) would it loose anything? Would it feel out?
Well, I discussed this with a good friend once, and we both agreed that some things are hard to match up.
I.e. some really precise rhythm guitar ( think Steve Stevens or the guys who played rhythm guitar for Michael Jackson ) prolly wouldn´t sound too good about a relaxed reggae- or calypso-tune-
At the same time, that loose, relaxed reggae-rhythm guitar might sound weird over "Billie Jean".
I liked that aspect of the "Beat It Solo". Eddie´s slippery, loose phrasing over that very straight beat...
Eric

[UKRuss]

It was a very specific moment in time that solo...changed the face of acceptability for virtuoso guitar.

I'd kill for that sloppy style he has.

I used to watch the solo he did on the live video with Hagar from the 5150 tour over and over and over. The floating hand part where he does the alternate picking runs on one string...mesmerizing.

Has his hand right off the guitar holding the pick by the thinnest margin...classy stuff.

This was all in stark contrast to Anthony's embarassing bass solo draped in a jack daniels flag. cringe worthy.:rolleyes:

[mattblack850]

This was all in stark contrast to Anthony's embarassing bass solo draped in a jack daniels flag. cringe worthy.:rolleyes:
Sounds very tasteful, that!!!
Wouldn't you find it hard to play if your bass was draped in a JD flag??:D

[Mateo150]

"Music is rhythm, rhythm, and rhythm" - Brahms

I obviously voted time. Its rare to hear someone with proper note selection and "pitch" who also hasn't already developed a great sense of time/rhythm. I'll play with someone who has good rhythm and doesn't hit all the right notes all the time, but I cringe playing with someone who can't stay in time.

As far as what you said Rob, yes, the type of groove is a whole lot of music for me. A funky 4/4 vs. a rock 4/4 is way different and you would have to speak to those differently, and the different phrasing would be natural.

Sorry to disagree with ya Eric, I mean I take most of your opinions and advice serieously, but as far as good rhythm guitarist, they should be able to play a precise funk groove and would most likely be able to play a relaxed reggae well also. I mean, maybe if you compared heavy metal rhythm to funk or reggae, I could see those not translating well.

[EricV]

Mateo

I didnt mean to say that those guys I mentioned were not able to play other styles of rhythm guitar... I just meant to say that if you tried to overdub, say, the rhythm guitar of "Beat It" over some live calypso jam ( where the timing might not be that persistent, but that doesnt matter ), it wouldn´t sound very appropiate.
I guess I am hinting at the different "feels" behind certain styles of music. Where heavy metal is usually precise, on the beat, some blues or reggae stuff might be slightly ahead of the beat or behind... which definitely adds to the feel of that music and sometimes makes it even more attractive.
By no means did I mean to say that the guys I mentioned can´t play more than "their" style of music, or that you shouldn´t work on being able to play different kinds of styles...

Russ... OMG, that New Haven guitar solo. Lemme tell you, shortly after I started playing the electric guitar, I bought a bootleg of a Van Halen Concert ( way over-prized, but I didnt care ! ), and I wasn´t aware that it was the same audio footage as "Live: Without A Net"
That solo mesmerized me. It was so cool... sounded so huge and powerful, and all those sounds... I had no clue about divebombs, the "Cathedral" swells, etc. I listened to that whole 12 min. guitar solo over and over, and I am sure it was quite an influence later on
Then, later, I got to see "Live: Without A Net", and there was that same solo, with video this time. Brought back a lotta memories.
Pure magic. Eddie later said that he wasn´t too fond of his solo on "Live: Right Here, Right Now" ( the one called "316" ). He said "I had all this humming going on, that distracted me. When I listen back now, it lacks the magic". Well, considering the impact that the New Haven-solo on that bootleg had on me, that one WAS magic =)
Eric

[UKRuss]

Pure magic, totally agreed.

I was already playing when I heard it and I thought it was always something I might be able to do if I kept going, it was such an inspiration.

I never did manage to learn it properly though and by that time Vai and Satch, Gilbert et al. had totally put my rock star dreams in perspective LOL.

After those dudes it was some time before I said wow! again..not until I heard Nuno B on Pornograffiti which I think you also mentioned before. When I'm president...wow, my stereo's volume just didnt go loud enough to please me LOL!