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Stoner2470
05-05-2005, 04:30 PM
I need some help. I have become familiar with quite a few scales, all of the modes, four or so pentatonics, and I can somewhat hear a difference in one mode and another. So I do know some stuff. My question is, how do you put these scales into use in a song? I know you don't just play them up and down EXACTLY in order, because that would get boring, but if you want the feel of a G Ionian mode, how do you play so that it's G Ionian and not E Aeolian, or F#locrian, WITHOUT playing the notes in order? I guess it could have something to do with the chords your playing over. If that's so, someone please help me understand how that works.

Factor
05-05-2005, 04:33 PM
The modes you speak of: G ionian E aeolian and F# locrian are all the same notes, just arranged with another root as reference point.

The point in case is that they aren't really going to sound different unless you play them over chords. In what ever direction or jumps you may take, playing the notes of Gmajor over a Eminor chord will make it sound like E Aeolian. Playing the same set of notes over a Gmajor chord will make it sound like G ionian (Gmajor)

The difference in the modes is subtle, and can only be heard over a corresponding harmony.

UKRuss
05-05-2005, 08:54 PM
much as i hate to self promote...nah who am i kidding.;)


chech the strickly threads in the improvisation forum...i think we covered all the major modes and i provided backing tracks for you to play over and learn by.

one rule?

when your ready post your version!:D

sixstrings121
05-05-2005, 10:43 PM
The 'licks' you play will be determined by the chord. You get the chords by harmonizing the scales. In the key of C you get Cmaj Dmin Emin Fmaj Gmaj Amin Bdim. The formula of chords is the same in every key. its..

Major Min Min Maj Maj Min Dim (MmmMMm-o)

So in the key of G, you have the notes G A B C D E F#

So you have the chords Gmaj Amin Bmin Cmaj Dmaj Emin F#dim.

you can play ANY of those chords together and they will sound good together. You can play them in order, or in any order you want. Just stay in one key. To make A progression modal, just start and end your progression on a Different note than the 1st note (for example if you were in the Key of C, You would base your progression around Dm, but you still use the chords in the key of C.)

Look at the key of Dm (Im showing it as Fmaj scale...theyre the same scale though)

F G A Bb C D E

So in the key of Dm (Fmaj) you have the chords Fmaj Gmin Amin Bbmaj Cmaj Dmin Edim

So to effectivly use the mode, Try to use the chords that are NOT common in the original scale

So if you want to make a D Dorian progression, instead of using the chords in Dm (Fmaj) you would use the chords in D Dorian (Cmaj)

So now pick out the NONcommon chords, contrasting from the modal scale and the original scale (Constrast D Minor to D Dorian)

D Minor (F Major)= Fmaj Gmin Amin Bbmaj Cmaj Dmin Edim

D Dorian (C Major)=Cmaj Dmin Emin Fmaj Gmaj Amin Bdim

the NON common chords between dorian and minor are

Emin, Gmaj, and Bdim.

So now write a Progression using any chords in the key of C, but most commonly you use Noncommon chords (from the original scale)...So a D Dorian progression would be like this

Dm G C

Dm Em F G

ect....just use any chord in the key of the parent scale (Cmajor is a parent to Ddorian) But if you throw the noncommon ones in, itll really emphasis the mode that your playing.

Stoner2470
05-06-2005, 06:53 PM
okay the first reply i've caugt on to but what i dont get is from the last one. why do you use the chords from the d dorian mode instead of the chords from d minor?

i appreciate the responses.

UKRuss
05-06-2005, 07:14 PM
DANGER DANGER DANGER MODE THREAD ALERT MODE THREAD ALERT!!!!!

Do a search in the forums dude and you will find everything yuo ned. This topic has been covered so many times it hurts.

:D

Under Improvisation check "Strickly Dorian" that will give you a good starting point.

mattblack850
05-06-2005, 08:14 PM
Under Improvisation check "Strickly Dorian" that will give you a good starting point.

My particular favourite!!

Mateo150
05-06-2005, 08:44 PM
"Practical use for scales" - measure stuff with them

mattblack850
05-06-2005, 08:45 PM
"Practical use for scales" - measure stuff with them

Scrape them off your fish before cooking!! (Or is this a NON practical use???)!!!

sixstrings121
05-06-2005, 09:53 PM
To Stoner:

You would use D Dorian (Cmajor) if you wanted to play in D dorian (you would use a D Dorian scale to play over it)...lol...but if you want to stay Aelian (natural minor) then use the chords from Dminor (Fmajor) and use a Dminor scale.

curiousgeorge
05-07-2005, 01:30 PM
To Stoner:

You would use D Dorian (Cmajor) if you wanted to play in D dorian (you would use a D Dorian scale to play over it)...lol...but if you want to stay Aelian (natural minor) then use the chords from Dminor (Fmajor) and use a Dminor scale.

Yeah, but make sure to do a forum/web search on pitch-axis theory too. It's a lot less complicated than it sounds!

live
05-09-2005, 04:17 PM
You just have too search! Doesn't matter!
________
CAROLINE OGUMA (http://www.****tube.com/video/34846/caroline-oguma-sex-video)

phil kelly
05-18-2005, 07:17 PM
The difference in the modes is subtle, and can only be heard over a corresponding harmony.


at the risk of started another dreaded "mode" thread:

The differences in modes ARE characterized by certain characteristic tones in each one ..

i.e.:

Ionian: C to C ( western major scale )
Dorian: D to D ( minorsh w/ raised 6th )
Phrygian : E to E (minorish w/ flat 2nd and lowered 7th )
Lydian : F to F ( major w / raised 4th )
Mixolydian: G to G ( major w/ lowered 7th )
Aeolian: A to A ( western natural minor )
Locrian : B to B ( minorish w/ lowered 5th,2nd, and 7 th )

I'll stop now :D

perth
05-18-2005, 09:26 PM
im a little weird in this department, but hopefully you'll get some use out of it.

i no longer think in keys or modes, rather i think in movements (counterpoint)and tensions (intervals and relationships). once i have some musical idea down, THEN i figure out what mode / scale / key i played in for the purpose of communicating those ideas to my band members.

this isnt to say i dont use scales, because i do, but they are more for practice and communication than for playing.