Advanced Chord Comping?

[Eccojedi]

I'm trying to figure out or learn some new chords to play with my left hand while soloing with my right hand, the normal arrangements are getting kinda boring to me. To be more specific, chords in the style of what ben folds does during the solo of One Angry Dwarf and 200 Solemn Faces, close set.

[Malcolm]

Not familiar with One Angry Dwarf or 200 Solemn Faces, however, back cycling may help. Back cycling is a way of filling in boring chord progressions. Back cycling will lead you to a basic chord to use as a fill. The actual chord you use (D, Dm, D7, etc) is your choice -- what ever fits best.

Have three bars of the same chord? Back cycling will fill those long voids.
Here is how it works ---in a nut shell:
Think of the circle of 5ths laid out in a line:
C-F-Bb-Eb-Ab-Db-Gb-B-E-A-D-G-C

Suppose you have a chord progression like:
Cmaj7/// | //// | //// | Gm7 / C7 / |F ///|

And would like to fill in between the Cmaj7 and the Gm7 -- looking at the circle of 5ths -- D leads to G so insert a D. That may be enough and you can stop there, but let's go on -- then ask what leads to D? Well A leads to D so insert an A. What leads to A? E leads to A, so insert an E and what leads to E, well a B will lead to an E so insert a B. Now the neat thing about this --- Think of Gm7 as being a temporary dominant, and think only of the basic chord (the left hand side of the chord not the emblished right hand side) that D to Gm7 just gave you a ii-V and the C7 completes a ii-V-I (basic chord). Now think of the D as being a temporary dominant, that A just gave another ii-V and the Gm7 completes another ii-V-I. All you have to do is decide to leave them as a major chords or emblish - remembering some of our key theory - or enhance the sound -whichever - and come up with something like this.

Cmaj7/// | Bm7 / E7 / | Am7 / D7 / | Gm7 / C7 / | F /// |

or really work with the progression and come up with something like this:

Cmaj9 /// | Bm7b5 / E7b9 / |Am7 / D7b9 / | Gm7b5 / C7#9 C7b9 |Fmaj7 ///|

Now all that came from page 105 of the book Chords & Progressions for Jazz and Popular Guitar. I use back cycling, however, I'm still doing "baby steps" nothing like the above -- use as much as you like. Piano chords and guitar chords are still chords.

A Google using the key word backcycling (one word) will point you to several sites that will go into more detail.

Good luck.

P.S. That part about ii-V-I may be a little confusing if so forget about it. It's there automatically --- not necessary to understand it. Just another wonderful thing about the circle of 5ths and music.

[Eccojedi]

Not familiar with One Angry Dwarf or 200 Solemn Faces, however, back cycling may help. Back cycling is a way of filling in boring chord progressions. Back cycling will lead you to a basic chord to use as a fill. The actual chord you use (D, Dm, D7, etc) is your choice -- what ever fits best.

Have three bars of the same chord? Back cycling will fill those long voids.
Here is how it works ---in a nut shell:
Think of the circle of 5ths laid out in a line:
C-F-Bb-Eb-Ab-Db-Gb-B-E-A-D-G-C

Suppose you have a chord progression like:
Cmaj7/// | //// | //// | Gm7 / C7 / |F ///|

And would like to fill in between the Cmaj7 and the Gm7 -- looking at the circle of 5ths -- D leads to G so insert a D. That may be enough and you can stop there, but let's go on -- then ask what leads to D? Well A leads to D so insert an A. What leads to A? E leads to A, so insert an E and what leads to E, well a B will lead to an E so insert a B. Now the neat thing about this --- Think of Gm7 as being a temporary dominant, and think only of the basic chord (the left hand side of the chord not the emblished right hand side) that D to Gm7 just gave you a ii-V and the C7 completes a ii-V-I (basic chord). Now think of the D as being a temporary dominant, that A just gave another ii-V and the Gm7 completes another ii-V-I. All you have to do is decide to leave them as a major chords or emblish - remembering some of our key theory - or enhance the sound -whichever - and come up with something like this.

Cmaj7/// | Bm7 / E7 / | Am7 / D7 / | Gm7 / C7 / | F /// |

or really work with the progression and come up with something like this:

Cmaj9 /// | Bm7b5 / E7b9 / |Am7 / D7b9 / | Gm7b5 / C7#9 C7b9 |Fmaj7 ///|

Now all that came from page 105 of the book Chords & Progressions for Jazz and Popular Guitar. I use back cycling, however, I'm still doing "baby steps" nothing like the above -- use as much as you like. Piano chords and guitar chords are still chords.

A Google using the key word backcycling (one word) will point you to several sites that will go into more detail.

Good luck.

P.S. That part about ii-V-I may be a little confusing if so forget about it. It's there automatically --- not necessary to understand it. Just another wonderful thing about the circle of 5ths and music.

I understand iiVI and a lot of theory, but this is the kind of stuff they don't teach you in classical theory composition classes!

Thanks!

[Eccojedi]

PS. this may take me a bit to process.

[Factor]

Excellent post Malcolm!

In addition to the circle of fifths, something I've learned is the tonal circle of fifths/fourths. That is the circle of fifths/fourths for each specific key.

Cmajor: Cmaj7 Fmaj7 Bm7b5 Em7 Am7 Dm7 G7
Bbmajor: Bbmaj7 Ebmaj7 Am7b5 Dm7 Gm7 Cm7 F7
Gmaj7: Gmaj7 Cmaj7 F#m7b5 Bm7 Em7 Am7 D7

Roman numerals: Imaj7 IVmaj7 viim7b5 iiim7 vim7 iim7 V7

Learning all of these with different voicings will help you out I think. In essence this is several diatonic ii-V-I after each other. You might want change some of them into secondary dominants as well. I can only add that it is important that any "inbetween" harmonization go well along with the melody, at least with slower songs.

[Eccojedi]

Thanks Factor.

I really wish there were jazz classes at my school.

[Factor]

Well, you can learn alot with a couple of basic books, good friends on IBM and dedication and study.

Once you understand the fundamentals, branching out theorywise becomes easier.

[Eccojedi]

Well, you can learn alot with a couple of basic books, good friends on IBM and dedication and study.

Once you understand the fundamentals, branching out theorywise becomes easier.

I know my fundamentals. I'm just stuck a bit, on some chord substitutions and inversions. Another song which has the kind of chords I'm looking for is You To Thank by... yes, Ben Folds. The chords in the left hand during the solo, again.

[Factor]

Oh I didn't mean to imply that you didn't know the fundamentals. Just that I've never taken formal jazz lessons and that you can learn a lot by yourself once you get a feel for the basics.

I'm sorry I can't help you with that song, I'm not familiar with it. Could you perhaps post a small snippet for the forum members with big ears? =)

[Eccojedi]

Wait, are we allowed to do that?

If I do that, I'm gonna post little snippets of a few different songs that do this sort of thing. under 45 seconds won't get you in trouble I don't think.

[Factor]

I'm not sure, but I think that a little snippet is allowed. Perhaps we can have some assistance from some of the more legally oriented members?

[Eccojedi]

if you want to know the truth, I doubt ben will sue me.

[Eccojedi]

Okay, By the time you guys will have read this, there will be two clips up, both Ben Folds solos. The clips are about 27 seconds a piece, so it's pretty legal, as well. For your enjoyment, I've faded them in at the beginning and out at the end. :D

You To Thank (from Songs for Silverman):
http://www.SdoubleL.net/YouToThankSolo.mp3
Get Your Hands Off My Woman (The Darkness Cover; from Super D)
http://www.SdoubleL.net/GetYourHandsSolo.mp3

I'm mostly interested in the atonal-sounding chords (a lot of tritones, I just can't really work out which and where!) used in the left hand, though there's some cool modal stuff going on in the right hand that I'm still trying to work out, some of them chromatic scales which merely involve me getting my finger dexterity up to par (I'm ALMOST up to the level of the right hand stuff in GYH, I just need to learn more!)

[TheMusic]

hello Malcolm

I want to buy the book Chords & Progressions for Jazz and Popular Guitar who's the publisher?

[Malcolm]

Chords & Progressions for Jazz & Popular Guitar by Arnie Berle
Amsco Publications, NewYork/London/Sydney

Amazon has it.

[gersdal]

I have also noticed the books Voice Leading for Guitar : Moving Through the Changes by John Thomas and Modern Chord Progressions by Ted Greene at Amazon. Anyone have any knowledge about these books? Would they be redundant if I bought Chords & Progressions for Jazz & Popular Guitar by Arnie Berle?

[TheMusic]

thanks