Scales

[The Pecker]

Recently, I have been downloading some Dream Theater songs afterreading many posts that had to do with this band. I heard the guitar player is excellent, so I decided to find out for myself. I in fact found out the guitar player was insane, and so was the rest of the music. Anyways, after hearing and reading some of Petrucci's tabs on Power Tab, I was wondering what kind of scales he uses. I would like to know so that I can learn them myself, for I very much do like the sound of his playing. I was thinking something of Major scales or Harmonic minor, but really I have no idea. If anyone knows, please let me know. Thanks.

[Zatz]

The Pecker,

Now that you've downloaded the tabs of Dream Theater what actually hinders you from playing them? Are you really sure you urgently need to rush into analyzing scales and think modes all the way?

Considering that you've got the sheet music it has to be pretty obvious what's going on and what scales or modes they're currently playing. If not, I recommend you to read some of the articles on this subject and search through the forums to grasp the point about recognizing and handling scales. Also, I think that'd be great if you could post here the problematic bits out of the DT tabs so that we can analyze them together ;) Don't hesitate to ask!

[The Pecker]

Nothing actually hinders me from playing them (except for lack of skill lol). I am currently learning one of their tunes, and from the text that says "Lydian" above, I am assuming he is playing major scales in this portion of the song. I was just wondering if anyone knows exactly what type of scales he normally uses. How do you post Power Tabs on the forum? Thank you for your help.

[Zatz]

How do you post Power Tabs on the forum?

You could either post a whole *.ptb file as an attachment or save a certain staff section as a bitmap image. The latter option can be done this way: in PowerTab editor go to 'Section' menu, choose 'Output As Bimap' and save it to your disk and then attach it to your message.

[oRg]

From what I remember (I haven't listened to DT in awhile), he plays major/minors, and on their new album, Train of Thought, he uses the Diminished scale alot as well as probably some Harmonics and Melodic Minor in various places.

I do agree with Zatz, just learn it part by part and analyze it. This will give you a great insight to how he composes and writes certain licks and phrases. Ask questions if necessary about certain phrases and passages.

[forgottenking2]

For what I've heard of DT and LTE I can tell you confidently that he uses The Major Scale and its modes, the harmonic and melodic minor, Diminished scales, Chromatic and Wholetone as well as an asortment of Major, minor, dominant and diminished arpeggios. ALL of this should take you a long time to learn (a couple of months to just get the mechanics of it all and a couple of years to be able to use it all somewhat confortably... and this would be practicing A LOT) and it will not make you play like Petrucci (knowing all that would definitely give you more options and help you understand what JP is doing, in a theoretical standpoint, which is great if you're gonna be a teacher or if you want to analyze the piece). If what you want is to capture the escense of his soloing I'd recomend you listen to him a lot and lift licks from his records, transcribe and learn DT songs, and MOST important of all: be patient and take your time learning it, realize that JP has been playing for many many years and he practiced for many hours during his teenage years to get where he is at.

So work hard and good luck.

[forgottenking2]

And since you have the sheetmusic already... you could try learning those songs you have.

[Carvinite]

Hey guys a little off topic, fan of DT and all BUT, I would like to know more about the diminished scale, does anyone have a link to an article or the scale formula and pattern it's self i might be able to get?

Thanks

-Ryan

[Music Mania]

If you work out a lot of his stuff, especially Dying Soul and some of the really long ones, he uses lots of chromatic stuff but not the chromatic scale.
What I think he uses is called the 'Be-Bop' Scale. It's basically a blues scale, but in it you add a major 2nd, a major 3rd, and a major 6th!!! there are a lot of notes in that scale, but you can use it to work out almost any Dream Theater Song.
He likes Dominant 7th arpeggios and minor 7th arpeggios too.
Hope this helps. You can never be sure with JP really. lol

[forgottenking2]

There are two diminished scales. One follows the formula whole step- half step (until you reach the note where you started) and the other one follows Half Step - Whole step. An example in the key of E the official UMHGK (Universal Metal Head Guitar Key :D)

Whole Half Diminished

E F# G A A# B# C# D# E

Half Whole Diminished

E F G Ab Bb Cb Db D E

They all turn out to be 8 note scales and one scale degree repeats, it's normally the 7th... My spelling on the scale may be wrong (but give me a break I have a hangover and it's 11 am... :( ) . The sounds you'll get are right though, it's just the way I named them... for some reason look weird to me now.

Anyway give it a try, apply the formula and come up with your fingerings for it. I'll come back later and post fingerings for it (if you want them) if noone else has already done so.

I hope this helps.

[The Pecker]

Although this is stryaing from the subject, I thought since I have a thread already I might as well post something else while Im at it. I have been having trouble with 3 note-per-string runs high on the fretboard (from the 11th fret and up). Runs like this I can do fine: (using all hammer-ons)
--------------56865---
------------568-------
------235-357---------
----235---------------
--135-----------------
-135------------------

But runs such as this my fingers (especially ring finger), get caught up. The first two strings I play (E and A) are no problem, but once I'm past that my ring finger screws it all up.

----------------------14----19^-
-------------------14h16h17-----
-----------------13h14h16-------
------11h13h14-13h14h16---------
---11h12h14---------------------
-11h12h14-----------------------

I have no problem with the last two nottes, just threw em in there to finish it. Anyways, do you suggest that I practice more slowly, just do high 3NPS runs over and over until I feel combfortable? Thanks for your advice guys.

[oRg]

Anyways, do you suggest that I practice more slowly, just do high 3NPS runs over and over until I feel combfortable?
Well you really answered your own question. If you can't do something while playing it fast then try playing it slower until you become more comfortable and are making no mistakes when playing. Then play it just a little bit faster. Just keep doing this until you reach an ideal speed. It'll take some time and I recommend doing this with all major/minor, harmonic, melodic, whole-tone, and chromatic scales. Also, one very important thing...USE A METRONOME! This will help solidify your timing and will help make it better.

[Carvinite]

There are two diminished scales. One follows the formula whole step- half step (until you reach the note where you started) and the other one follows Half Step - Whole step. An example in the key of E the official UMHGK (Universal Metal Head Guitar Key :D)

Whole Half Diminished

E F# G A A# B# C# D# E

Half Whole Diminished

E F G Ab Bb Cb Db D E

They all turn out to be 8 note scales and one scale degree repeats, it's normally the 7th... My spelling on the scale may be wrong (but give me a break I have a hangover and it's 11 am... :( ) . The sounds you'll get are right though, it's just the way I named them... for some reason look weird to me now.

Anyway give it a try, apply the formula and come up with your fingerings for it. I'll come back later and post fingerings for it (if you want them) if noone else has already done so.

I hope this helps.


man no worries, i've got a pretty bad hangover also (too much Segram's 7 & coke :D ) But when you say the sounds youll get a right rough, do you mean as far as using the scale to solo with? or what?

[Carvinite]

I would like the fingerings you come up with, I am gonna work on my own, but I would like to see your also if you dont mind.

[forgottenking2]

LOL It's now 11 pm... I don't know what the hell I was talking about this morning (Or where I got these cuts in my ankle for that matter :p It was a good party) But the scale is right, maybe you want to name one or two of the notes differently (one of their enharmonic equivalents) but they are right nevertheless. Here are my fingerings:

Whole Half Diminished (A)

e-----------------------------------5-7-8-
B-----------------------------6-7-9-------
G----------------------5-7-8---------------
D----------------6-7-9--------------------
A-------5-6-8-9---------------------------
E-5-7-8-----------------------------------

Half Whole Diminished (G#)

e-------------------------------------4-5-7
B------------------------------4-6-7------
G-----------------------4-5-7--------------
D--------------3-4-6-7----------------------
A-------3-5-6----------------------------
E-4-5-7-----------------------------------

I hope this helps.