my bending/vibrato technique sucks!

[satch_master]

When i want to sustain a note i have it real easy.
Firstly, i have a Les Paul known for their great sustain and tone, secondly i use lots and lots of gain on my amp and use effects like reverb and chorus so this should improve my sustain. However, the best equipment in the world cannot produce good sustain, it is all in the fingers and getting underneath the note. This is why i don't play solos on clean that often as i should, i have bad sustain and i hide it behind lots of distortion and effects. Fair enough i can play relatively fast now but i need to improve my sustain to improve my soloing. My vibrato is short and weak , and makes my solos sound poor. Maybe it is because im afraid to bend the notes.

Can you guys please give me any advice or general tips to improve my sustain/bending/vibrato/extended note length technique.

[EricV]

Hey there
I think it´s great that you wanna focus on tone and vibrato etc. after working on the speed-chops for a while.
First things first: I don´t know whether you have read those 2 articles of mine:
The Quest For Tone - http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/120
Bending Steel - http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/123

The latter is focussing especially on the techniques you asked about.

I think a few basic ideas to get you started would be:
- Do away with all the delay and verb for a while, turn down the gain and work with that. Play some melodies and slower improvs, and do your best to make that sound good. Play some long notes and try adding vibrato to it... a slow, wide one, or a fast narrow one. Try to get used to the motions of that, until you can apply vibrato to each note without even thinking about it. This is something that might take a while, but it´s worth the effort.
- Pick a simple melody, and try to make it sound nice. I know you like Satriani, so take i.e. the melody of "Love Thing". Make those low notes sound as good as you can... add vibrato to make the notes ring a bit longer, try to have your vibrato be in time with the song
- Dial up a nice clean tone on your gear, lean back and just play some lines. Try to add different phrasing elements like those "rakes" to get to a note, then try to add some "tone" to it

- Do the bending exercises from the article. Do them in different variations ( play a scale alone one string, using bends, then apply that to other strings etc. ), play in all areas of the neck.
Skip forth and back from the low areas of the neck and the higher areas to get used to applying more or less strenght ( less strength required in the higher areas, so make suse you don´t overbend )
- Listen to some of your favorite songs ( i.e. some instrumental ballads again ), and pay special attention to how the player employs bendings and vibrato. A lot of people think that "Always With Me, Always With You" is a simple song once you nail the tapping stuff. At the same time, this is a really hard song if you wanna get close to all the bendings and legato-stuff used in the melody. The use of dynamics and vibrato really is very nice, and that is what most people fail at if they try to cover that song.

I am sure some of the others have other advice for you, so for now, I´ll leave ya with those ideas and the two links
And oh yeah, IMO the realization you came to there is a very important one for you as a player...
Eric

[steve0192]

There's some good advice there.

I'd second the suggestion to pick a simple melody and try to inject some real soul into it.

A goodie is "Parisienne Walkways". No doubt there's a backing track somewhere online. It's an easy tune to learn, but has loads of soulful bends in different positions, making it very easy to over or under pitch them.

Dont forget to record yourself. You can be a lot more critical when you listen back.

Steve

[satch_master]

Yeah, thanks for the advice guys. I will be working on those things you said Eric V. and read your helpful articles.

Ive been listening to alot of Thin Lizzy today, great band, maybe that can provide some insipiration.

The most trouble i have with sustain is on the high E, thats where i need to work on it most , especially near the top of the neck near the 22nd where it gets harder to bend, however very essential for screaming high pitched leads.

[satch_master]

i read those articles , very helpful advice. especially that you clarified the difference between sound and tone, ill remeber that forever now. ive been working on those vibrato ad bending exercises. I kinda recorded myself over a easy ballad chord progression in A minor. I tried to keep it slow and just play melodies focusing on sustain, mind the runs its just me get carried away as usual. "for the love of god" is excellent to practice my technique on.

[Bizarro]

Eric made some great points. I firmly believe you should practice without reverb and FX for 90% of your practice. It's the only way to hear the real deal. Try recording yourself too and fix the bad stuff. Off-pitch bends and bad vibrato are two of the worst things in the world! LOL

Thorsten often skips FX completely on his recordings, but it still kicks butt because he has great control and vibrato.

[AlivArmageddawn]

What they have said is true, but the important thing is that, you should play it soulfully, in a very soulful manner (don't think about timing or breaking the string or want to be careful or looks or what ever). You just blast! If not it will sounds like computer. Try to play in pentatonic scale and it will rock you on!

[ncook]

Satch, vibrato was a weakness of mine up until a few months ago. I made an effort to improve. What I discovered was the more I attack the vibratto the better the result. When I use it, its never in the hand shaking manner violinists use, its more in the grab and yank method Yngwie Malmsteen uses (of course if you dont like his vibrato, you can disregard the rest of this post;) ). When I apply vibrato, I usually end up on my middle finger (how, I dont know), and I pull it intensly, sort of curling my finger like I'm making a fist for the G string and down. I obviously push up for the B and high E. I do it a little slower than most and really deep and with a fierce attack. I'm pretty happy with the result. Now this really doesn't apply to a clean sound, I still use the violin hand shake for that. Hope this inspired some ideas for you.

[Thorsten]

Well, I think bending and vibrato make your guitar playing come alive. Your bending and vibrato technique is like the voice you have on your guitar. It´s a very personal thing and one of the things that make the electric guitar so unique in sound and expression.

I try to think of bends and vibrato like a human voice, like you were singing the part. I think, if you can sing a melody right with soul and emotion you won´t have a problem applying the right amount of bends and vibrato to your instrument you´ve chosen to express your musical ideas...

So the first thing if you wanna bend and vibrate ( ;) ) properly is to develop your ear on music. Listen to yourself while playing and not just concentrate on the technical aspect of getting the notes right but concentrate on your overall sound. Does it sound the way I want it to sound when I´m playing?

E.g. the problem most people have on bends is to find the right pitch or intonation and this, without a doubt, has to do with your abbility to hear correct pitch. In other words, develop your ear on hearing proper pitch and you won´t have a problem bending in tune.

Same thing with vibrato. If you can hear yourself while your playing and listen to your inner voice as if you where singing the part, you should be able to apply the right amount of vibrato.

E.g. most beginners usually either vibrate to fast or not at all when bending a note. So to make the note come alive I think of it like an opera singer who would hold and sustain a note. If you vibrate to fast it can be annoying cause it doesn´t sound natural like a human voice and if you don´t vibrate at all the notes just dead without any expression. So an opera singer would just hold the note for a second and then slowly bring in a very subtle vibrato but which is rich in emotion.

BUT, I have to say: A lot of this ability to express yourself on the instrument comes with age and years of experience. I discovered this with most guitar players your vibrato will mature and get better and better over the years, so don´t expect any miracles...

O.k. just some general thoughts here but that´s the way I would approch it.

Cheers
TK

[ncook]

BUT, I have to say: A lot of this ability to express yourself on the instrument comes with age and years of experience. I discovered this with most guitar players your vibrato will mature and get better and better over the years, so don´t expect any miracles...


I would second that. I've been playing for a long time and I'm just now at a point where I'm becoming satisfied with my vibrato. (although I need to try the bend, hold, slowly come in with vibrato thing, that sounds like a great way to add artistic value to it). Now if I could only fix my phrasing retardation.

[ReinierK]

My vibrato isn't good either, but I tend to think of Jeff Buckley when I want that (his voice, not his playing)... He had the ability to do with his voice what you want to do with guitar... Sometimes he has this fierce quick vibrato and sometimes it's pure and slow... I second the thought that vibrato is the 'voice' of the guitar.

[satch_master]

thanks for the help guys.

And YES, i do like the YJM type vibrato i.e. long ,wide and agressive.
Thorsten - Apart from being a great player and having lots of speed ,you have an excellent vibrato technique, i remember listening to your take on the "Strictly neoclassical" and apart from being blown away from your general playing , your vibrato technique was excellent. Time and experience ay?
Ill have to cut down on my reverb and my effects and concentrate and really think about the notes when i play them. For some reason, its hardest on the high E string, reason being more tension up the top of the neck and im scared i will brake a string.

[ncook]

thanks for the help guys.

And YES, i do like the YJM type vibrato i.e. long ,wide and agressive.
Thorsten - Apart from being a great player and having lots of speed ,you have an excellent vibrato technique, i remember listening to your take on the "Strictly neoclassical" and apart from being blown away from your general playing , your vibrato technique was excellent. Time and experience ay?
Ill have to cut down on my reverb and my effects and concentrate and really think about the notes when i play them. For some reason, its hardest on the high E string, reason being more tension up the top of the neck and im scared i will brake a string.

You might want to go a click lighter on your string gauge, if your on 10s try 9s for a while (or 9s to 8s), it'll make bending a lot easier. Also, have a few extra high Es on hand, that way you can really hit it with out the worry. They don't break as easily as you might think. I can bend my high E up a full step and a half with no worries at all.

[Thorsten]

Hey Satch, thanks for the nice compliment! I try to play from the heart, that´s all I can say...

Well, think of it that way: The guitar is the instrument, the tool you´ve chosen to express yourself, so you should strip away or change everything that prevents you from doing that. In other words: The guitar and gear should be accommodated to you, your hands, your body, your mind and not vice versa...

A good idea definitely would be to strip away everything that´s not you, meaning effects and what not...You should be able to get your sound with just a good guitar and amp! Everything else would be just like make up...the icing on the cake so to speak.

O.k. just some ideas!

Cheers
TK

[forgottenking2]

Hey there guys,

I have to disagree with ncook (but then again string gauge is a strictly personal matter... kinda like toothbrushes :p ) I think working with a heavier gauge will strenghten your fingers more. The way I am doing it is working my way up gauges (I got up to 11s and I think I'm staying there... or I may go back down to 10s) then if you do get beyond the gauge you use when you come back down to it it'll feel a lot lighter and you'd be able to do a lot more. (I played a guitar strung with 9s and once I got over the fact that the lower strings seemed way too loose, I got some pretty cool stuff going on, nice wide vibrato and so forth... I still want to get that confortable with 11s though)

I agree with Thorsten, in this past year I've come to rely less and less on effects... aside from some ambience stuff (a little delay here, a little chorus there) and it's definitely a pay off 'cause you can plug your guitar to any amp and still sound good. It's true what they say, 80% of your tone is in your fingers.

My 2 cents,

NP. Miles Davis: Kind of Blue

[ncook]

Hey there guys,

I have to disagree with ncook (but then again string gauge is a strictly personal matter... kinda like toothbrushes :p ) I think working with a heavier gauge will strenghten your fingers more. The way I am doing it is working my way up gauges
I play 10s on my PRS and 9s on my Jackson. 9s are way easier to bend, thats the only reason I suggested it. Its a quick fix to his problem.

[Len H]

A fresh set of strings helps with tone and sustain, especially as you play up beyond the 15th fret or so. I agree with the others, lose the reverb and other effects, they only detract with what you are trying to accomplish. Gain and distortion are good up to a point, they add to sustain and give you a chance to work your vibrato. Another thing is you might want to raise your action a little bit, even though it might seem harder to play at first, the higher strings give you better control and allow your fingers to get "under" the string instead of sliding off the top of it.

A really good exercise for bending plus vibrato is to fret a note such as "F" on the first string 13th fret and bend it up a whole step to "G". Once you can do that with control, apply vibrato "around" the "G" by bending slightly above pitch and releasing by the same degree below pitch. The next step beyond that is to bring the vibrato on gradually, starting shallow and widening it as the note sustains, mimicing a vocalist.

[satch_master]

A fresh set of strings helps with tone and sustain, especially as you play up beyond the 15th fret or so. I agree with the others, lose the reverb and other effects, they only detract with what you are trying to accomplish. Gain and distortion are good up to a point, they add to sustain and give you a chance to work your vibrato. Another thing is you might want to raise your action a little bit, even though it might seem harder to play at first, the higher strings give you better control and allow your fingers to get "under" the string instead of sliding off the top of it.

A really good exercise for bending plus vibrato is to fret a note such as "F" on the first string 13th fret and bend it up a whole step to "G". Once you can do that with control, apply vibrato "around" the "G" by bending slightly above pitch and releasing by the same degree below pitch. The next step beyond that is to bring the vibrato on gradually, starting shallow and widening it as the note sustains, mimicing a vocalist.

yeah, i read that in Eric V's articles. I have been practising it a bit. Half step and whole step bends with vibrato and to play the actual note to see if i was accurate or not. I may consider putting thicker strings on my cheap guitar( my les paul is perfectly set up and playable), that way it will strengthen my hands for bending and i won't have to worry about braking strings cause the thicker gauges can take a bit of pain. I can just try playing some pentatonic blues based stuff, slow and lots of phrasing with long notes , no shred stuff hehe, that wont help.

Ive recently downloaded some Paul Gilbert albums, i have always known he is a great guitarist with loads of chops but everytime i hear a new song of his it never fails to impress me and his shredding is amazing . His shredding technique is so fresh to hear for me and he is the fastest in the business. His vibrato is also on par, now i know were Thorsten gets his good vibrato technique from, that is by learning Paul Gilbert songs and his by getting his tone. Ill much definatly be getting some more PG songs, he is a good song writer aswell.

[Sage]

I wasn't too familiar with vibrato before but when I accidentaly did it a during lead practicing it just became a part of my style. When I accidentaly did it again during band practice I got some looks and positive reaction from my bandmates when I did a fast vibrato bend. At home, I recorded myself doing a lead with the vibrato bend and I somehow remembered Ozzy Osbourne and other metal bands. Too bad I'm into blues and jazz now. It's still applicable though.

I haven't practiced this technique before but I guess almost 10 years of guitar playing somewhat helped me get this style unconsciously.

[forgottenking2]

While there's definitely not Rock style vibrato in jazz (almost no vibrato at all the older stuff) you can safely apply classical vibrato to lines that have one lingering note in the end (once again I really haven't heard many of those lines in the bebop tunes... guitarist seem to follow a more stacato approach).

And blues... vibrato is where is at man. It will definitely spice up your blues lines. (unless you're talking about the blues changes played within a jazz context). Classic blues players like Albert King, T-Bone Walker and others have insane vibrato techniques (B.B. King goes without mentioning) and some of the more contemporary ones Ruben Ford and Albert Cummings also take their vibrato very seriously.

So not all is lost my friend. Keep working on that vibrato.

[satch_master]

While there's definitely not Rock style vibrato in jazz (almost no vibrato at all the older stuff) you can safely apply classical vibrato to lines that have one lingering note in the end (once again I really haven't heard many of those lines in the bebop tunes... guitarist seem to follow a more stacato approach).

And blues... vibrato is where is at man. It will definitely spice up your blues lines. (unless you're talking about the blues changes played within a jazz context). Classic blues players like Albert King, T-Bone Walker and others have insane vibrato techniques (B.B. King goes without mentioning) and some of the more contemporary ones Ruben Ford and Albert Cummings also take their vibrato very seriously.

So not all is lost my friend. Keep working on that vibrato.
I like blues as in 60s cream, zeppelin and stuff. I dont listen to jazz much. Im thinking more of the vibrato technique used in metal(especially metal when there was actually good guitarists like the 80s). I like Paul Gilbert's vibrato, Richie Sambora's and YJM's to name a few good ones.

[satch_master]

I just discovered reinforced bending and my gosh it has improved my overall technique. I am consciously thinking about my bending and vibrato each time i play guitar and i think i am starting to reap the rewards. Now the task for me is to decide between exactly how much vibrato to add, i don't wanna over do it and at the same time i don't want to under do it, balance is the key.

[Bizarro]

John Sykes (Whitesnake "Still of the Night" album, Blue Murder) and Zakk Wylde have great rock vibrato too. So does Jake E Lee.

Let me add my 2 cents though... :) I've played just about every style and my classical vibrato is very useful for some things. I also have an OK Zakk Wylde/Jake E Lee style vibrato, plus a Van Halen-ish version too. Everything from subtle to over the top, depending on the situation. Sometimes fast, slow, wide (pitch-wise) or whatever. Sometimes you start slow and gradually increase the speed, etc. I like doing some vibrato in quarter notes, 8th notes, 16th notes, or triplet-feel.

The point I'm trying to make is that you don't want just one vibrato that you can do well. Work on your control and try get a huge variety in there. Vibrato separates the hacks from the pros, so make sure you're on the right side of that line! :)

[phantom]

Vibrato separates the hacks from the pros, so make sure you're on the right side of that line!

Very well said Bizarromeister! :)

I've encountered another "problem".. when you get used to do vibratos and they sound good, you spread them all over the place. Recently i've tried to get rid of some "unnecessary" vibratos, or better said: use them more controlled. a plain strong played note is something sweet as well! Like satch_master said - it is a matter of balance. Not only how you vibrate also if you vibrate a note at all!
Sometimes i have to litterly force myself not to shake those strings - i guess it's part of that energy that comes out of you while playing that makes you vibrate all over the place. :confused:

One example of a perfectly bend note without vibrato is the intro of Petruccis solo in the Dream Theater song "Another Day". Such a perfect note/tone - without vibrato.
If you are able to use vibrato just as the topping on your ice-cream then it is even worth more.

sorry .. i'm babbling away ;)

[EricV]

Indeed, that first note of the Another Day-solo is great... the song builds up a lot towards the solo, so the note John played there fit perfectly.
And of course I agree that sometimes, a long note without vibrato is just appropiate as well, especially if you consider how many other ways you have to get to or shape that note... i.e. slide into it ( Vai-style ), or use different dynamics of the right hand to make it sound differently.
Imagine you play only one note, and you pick it once, and let it ring for a bit. Then, you pick it a few more times, adding more dynamics by picking harder. Slowly but surely, you start to add vibrato with the left hand... very slow, very small one at first, then increase the speed and width of it. It´s amazing what you can do with that, how you can build it up from an extremely soft, almost fragile note, to a very energetic, anxious one
Sorry for rambling =)
Eric

[Thorsten]

Well, you can always imitate somebody´s style (vibrato, licks, riffs etc.) like you were imitating somebody´s voice. The important thing is to find your own voice!

[Mateo150]

Well, coming from a bonefide hack here. How do you improve your vibrato? I've been playing in those genres that emphasize vibrato for 4.5 years, but mine is still awful. Even when I do an impractical B.B. style vibrato and bring my hand all the way off the guitar, it still sounds weak, even though my hand and the string sounds like its vibrating well while I'm playing it. I listen to it coming back on a recording, and I'm very disappointed at the results. My bend + vibrato is something I'm very new to, but I have a real problem not sounding other strings as I'm releasing the bend.

Also, does gear help vibrato? If I add distortion, will it make the vibrato more noticible? I almost never use distortion.

[EricV]

Mateo
Of course bending also requires some muting technique... use parts of both hands ( i.e. fingertips of left hand, parts of fingers of right hand / tunnel ) to mute the adjacent strings when you apply a lot of vibrato to a given string ( to avoid the noise ).

Also, yes, distortion and compression might make a very slight vibrato more noticeable, but you should be able to make it heard even with a clean tone. Listen to guys like Mark Knopfler, or listen to old Clapton or Beck records when those guys didn´t have a lot of distortion available. You can still hear different kinds of vibrato.
Hope this helps a bit
Eric

[Mateo150]

question for the teachers, when you bend a string, where do you try to get the other strings to land on your finger? Say for example, you bend a high e-string at the 17 fret up a whole step (a support bend using the ring finger), your going to have to cross the b and g strings. Do you try to keep them on the very tip of your finger as you go up, preventing them from touching the fretboard so when you release, those strings don't pop back into place? Or do you let them slide a bid under your finger into the fingerprint portion a tad? I've been doing it the former method of preventing contact with the fretboard, but lately I think I sound better when I allow the string to slip under a bit, this allows me to mute with my left hand (I never focused on muting much before, and my bends sounded like it...mushed together sounds). I'm not sure how I could mute with my left hand If I had the other strings on my fingertips since theres no spare finger left to mute with. Just wanted to get some feedback, since this isn't something you can really spot on someone's playing and I don't take lessons.

[live]

Bending and Vibrato are two factors which I must improve too, two solos helped me in the very beginning of my contact with "tone"...
Check 'em out,
try to play those solos:

Metallica - Fade To Black
Skid Row - In A Darkened Room


live

[jan 87]

hey man, if you want to keep your bends and do bens with vibrato in, bring your thumb over the top of the neck, use 3 fingers for the bend to add strenght to it and give the ring finger support. and if you have your fingers at a slant, straighten them up for the bends. and bend with vibrato, grip with thumb at top, then move your fingers from the knuckles up and down slightly with the thumb gripping over the top. when you have got the desired note of you bend.

hope that helps

[wiechfreak]

My classical vibrato is amazing. However my normal bending vibrato (is there really a name for that?) is pretty slow. I need to work on that.

[Mateo150]

umm... I did specify supportive fingering in my post, and a bend with vibrato pretty much implies that I use my thumb as a main fulcrum. Anyway, guess the lack of replies suggests its one of those grey areas there isn't too much teaching applicable to. No problem though, Its coming along just fine.

[satch_master]

Bending and Vibrato are two factors which I must improve too, two solos helped me in the very beginning of my contact with "tone"...
Check 'em out,
try to play those solos:

Metallica - Fade To Black
Skid Row - In A Darkened Room


live

Two incredible 80s metal bands indeed. In fact, "fade to black" was one of the first solos i ever learnt on the guitar(but couldn't play competently back then). Maybe i will give it a re-visit. I think, same in Eric V's article , the most beautiful and inspiring song that is the best example of glorious vibrato tecnique is Vai - "For the love of God". It is definatly my fav song of Vai's and evokes so much emotion and passion within the playing. No one can emulate his playing on that perfectly, only the man himself. Like fair enough i can play the notes but not with the same delivery,passion and tone.

[forgottenking2]

I absolutely love the tone on Vai's records and also the Satch but the one that I totally wish I could emulate is Eric Johnson... man! What a great vibrato.