Question!

[Sir Strumalot]

Hi guys,

I'm new here and decided to make my first post a sort of hello as well as to clear one of my doubts.

The reason i joined this forums becase unlike a lot of other forums you guys actually offer help instead of mindless spam. keep it up guys.

Now here's something that's got me a bit confused. recently i've been trying to learn some theory. now my question is very likely to sound extremely stupid since i really lack in theory :confused: .

Now the ionian mode for e.g..is'nt this the same as the major scale. if yes then why is it called the ionian mode. what exactly is it that makes it different from the major scale. and also when you guys practice a new scale or mode do you learn the formula and then try to play it in different keys? Also, when learning a mode or a scale for example how exactly do you know what kind of chord progression it would go over. is it just experimentation? how do you know?

Anyway i think this is a great forum and most people seem really nice and helpful. I'm sure my post would consist of a few typo's but please ignore since this is sort of rushed.

Also, how exactly do you do a dive bomb using the whammy? i dnt get it, and explination would be much appreciated. i recently got a guitar that has a floating trem and would like to try it out but don't really know what people mean when they say dive. thanks guys.

[ncook]

Hi guys,

I'm new here and decided to make my first post a sort of hello as well as to clear one of my doubts.

The reason i joined this forums becase unlike a lot of other forums you guys actually offer help instead of mindless spam. keep it up guys.

Now here's something that's got me a bit confused. recently i've been trying to learn some theory. now my question is very likely to sound extremely stupid since i really lack in theory :confused: .

Now the ionian mode for e.g..is'nt this the same as the major scale. if yes then why is it called the ionian mode. what exactly is it that makes it different from the major scale. and also when you guys practice a new scale or mode do you learn the formula and then try to play it in different keys? Also, when learning a mode or a scale for example how exactly do you know what kind of chord progression it would go over. is it just experimentation? how do you know?

Anyway i think this is a great forum and most people seem really nice and helpful. I'm sure my post would consist of a few typo's but please ignore since this is sort of rushed.

Also, how exactly do you do a dive bomb using the whammy? i dnt get it, and explination would be much appreciated. i recently got a guitar that has a floating trem and would like to try it out but don't really know what people mean when they say dive. thanks guys.
Well, I can't help you with the ionian mode question, but a dive bomb is about what it sounds like. Its pressing down on the tremolo bar, usually until the strings are flopping ;) . Its cool when you strike some natural harmonics and then dive, you can get some really cool sounds. I like the horsey (although its not really diving), you strike the natural harmonics on the 2nd fret of the g and b strings (I think) and then wiggle the trem rapidly as you raise it a bit the lower it as it dies (still wigglin). Sounds very horse like if you do it right. Simple things like that really amuse me.:p

[Zatz]

Sir Strumalot,

Welcome on board!


Now the ionian mode for e.g..is'nt this the same as the major scale. if yes then why is it called the ionian mode. what exactly is it that makes it different from the major scale.


Technically nothing makes it any different from straight major scale. In fact, every mode is based on that same major scale but when you talk modes you emphasize one of the possible seven roots out of it - so C Ionian, D Dorian etc all share the same set of notes from C major. In case of Ionian the root will coincide with the first note from major scale, in Dorian - with the second and so on.

Why all this ambiguity? Every mode has its melodic and harmonic flavor but only when played over some chord progression, otherwise you'll always get simple major scale again.

Actually this is FAQ type question at iBreathe and you might want to search through the forums to learn more on the subject. Also please read the articles, and of course check out the 'Strictly' series to have a better understanding of what are modes and how they sound:

Ionian - http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7383
Dorian - http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7443
Phrygian - http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7504
Lydian - http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7672
Mixolydian - http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7755
Aeolian - http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7965
Locrian - http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8658


and also when you guys practice a new scale or mode do you learn the formula and then try to play it in different keys? Also, when learning a mode or a scale for example how exactly do you know what kind of chord progression it would go over. is it just experimentation? how do you know?


The progression goes first. The quality of the chord you play over defines the choice of the mode. This is where the experiments begin. Check out these Chord Scales articles by Guni:

Major scale - http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/105
Modes - http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/106
More scales - http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/108

I haven't answered any of your questions but hopefully these links will give you a start on the modes.

Good luck,
Zatz

[EricV]

Interesting... I always thought that "ionian" and "aeolian" simply were different names or older terms for the major and minor scale respectively =)

>and also when you guys practice a new scale or mode do you learn the formula and
>then try to play it in different keys?
Aye. When it comes to the strict fingering of the new scale ( the patterns ), I like to memorize and get comfortable with them by playing them a lot, applying sequences and licks, and moving them through different keys.
When it comes to "using" the scale in a muscial context, getting an idea of the sound etc., I like to apply it to a song or chord progression. Which leads to the next question:

>Also, when learning a mode or a scale for example how exactly do you know what
>kind of chord progression it would go over

For the modes, I applied them ( at first, when I was first getting into them ) to a few chords from the respective major scale, later I used chords from that scale with changing bass notes ( i.e. for D Dorian, I´d use triads from C major over a D bassnote to get the "sound of the mode" to come out more )
For other scales, like exotic scales etc., I first do the "memorizing" ( see above ), and then try any of the following: if the scale works over one or two regular triads from any other scale, I play teh scale over that to get used to it.
Example: Hirajoshi, a japanese 5-tone scale, in E, looks like this: E-F#-G-B-C-E
If you look closely, it looks a lot like the E minor scale minus A and D. So it would work over an E minor chord, for example.
I also like to harmonize the scale and create chords from it, which I can use the scale over. I did so for the "strickly hirajoshi" thread. I did the same thing you do with a major scale or mode ( harmonize it in thirds ) to get the chords ( this was just my first approach, you can try to harmonize it differently as well ), and then I used the chords I got out of it to create a progression and jam track. Check the ptb I attached for some basic fingerings and chords made up from that scale.

Hope this helps
Eric

[Sir Strumalot]

Hey thanks a lot guys. That really helped. You guys are great! Thanks again.

[Sir Strumalot]

Here's a doubt, Now a dorian mode is derived by making the second note of an inonian mode the root right? so take A ionian as an example, now if i used b as the root this would be B dorian correct?

[Sir Strumalot]

Also, if i created another scale (still bearing A ionian as an example) with the third note of A ionian (that would be C#)..Would that be C# Phyrgian??

Sorry for the double post but when i tried editing i could'nt, it just allowed deletion. sorry.

[Zatz]

Here's a doubt, Now a dorian mode is derived by making the second note of an inonian mode the root right? so take A ionian as an example, now if i used b as the root this would be B dorian correct?

Yes.

[Zatz]

Also, if i created another scale (still bearing A ionian as an example) with the third note of A ionian (that would be C#)..Would that be C# Phyrgian??

Sorry for the double post but when i tried editing i could'nt, it just allowed deletion. sorry.

Yes :) You got it right.

[Sir Strumalot]

Yes :) You got it right.
Yay!:) ...Btw, i don't get the point of creating all this confusion. A lot of the modes e.g. A aeolian, D Dorian, C ionian in the key of C, contain the same notes am i right?

[EricV]

Yes. They do. You could i.e. say "A D Dorian scale is a C major / ionian scale played from the second note to the octave of that, so in case of D Dorian, D to D".
Technically, this is true.
But the modes-system does make sense, cuz if you i.e. play in D Dorian, you ( should ) treat the scale by itself, just like you use the C Major scale. So you should treat the D as the root. Also, it depends on the backing you have... I have mentioned this example many times before, but:
If you i.e. play the three major triads of C major... G, F and C, and you play D Dorian over it, it will not sound as "dorian" as if you´d add a D-bassnote to the chords... this will KINDA enforce the idea of D being the current root, and if you play D Dorian over this: G/D - F/D- C/D, you will most likely hear the sound of the mode a bit better.
this is it in a nutshell, it´s a huge topic though
Hope this helps anyway
Eric

[Schmaus]

Now you just gotta practice all this to reinforce the knowlege you have :)

[Sir Strumalot]

Yes. They do. You could i.e. say "A D Dorian scale is a C major / ionian scale played from the second note to the octave of that, so in case of D Dorian, D to D".
Technically, this is true.
But the modes-system does make sense, cuz if you i.e. play in D Dorian, you ( should ) treat the scale by itself, just like you use the C Major scale. So you should treat the D as the root. Also, it depends on the backing you have... I have mentioned this example many times before, but:
If you i.e. play the three major triads of C major... G, F and C, and you play D Dorian over it, it will not sound as "dorian" as if you´d add a D-bassnote to the chords... this will KINDA enforce the idea of D being the current root, and if you play D Dorian over this: G/D - F/D- C/D, you will most likely hear the sound of the mode a bit better.
this is it in a nutshell, it´s a huge topic though
Hope this helps anyway
Eric
Thnks mate. Really appreciate you taking the time to type all of that.