Phrasing, my nemesis

[ncook]

Phrasing is a weakness of mine. I need to create some exercises to iron this out. The only one I ever heard was to set up a metronome and play one note per beat. Then add another note in between but still maintain the first and last in its place, then another in between and another and so on. Any other suggestions?

[MattW]

Can you sing melodies to music? If you can, then try to recreate those vocal melodies on the guitar.

[Yux]

Hi,
this is somthing that worked quite good for me:

- choose a phrase that you really like (it an be a vocal melody phrase, a lick from another player's solo, an interesting drum fill, a riff, you name it...);
- try to play new melodies using that same rhythm with different notes.

You'll see that you have to pay attention to:
- which notes you choose to play, not only tonality-wise but also with regards to the melodic shape of your phrase;
- you are forced to be very focused on your playing otherwise it's easy to change the rhythm (and you have not to change the rhythm during this exercise);
- your playing's dynamics, a true plus of your phrasing;
- how you can improve a "single phrase": maybe you played an almost good version of the phrase, go back and check what can be improved, than fix it;

I think most of us may improve their phrasing by being focused on what they play, in my opinion "lack of real attention" is what usually bring you to play the same old lick that it's already inlayed in the guitar's fretboard.

My best
Yux



P.S: ...of course I did not created anything, Paul Gilbert shows this exercise in his "Intense Rock II" istructional book...
P.S II: for all you shredders out there, please don't choose a straight 16th-triplet run: the rhythm of these kind of phrases is a little bit boring. Sorry :-)

[Yux]

P.S III: af course you can try to change the rhythm of a phrase that you really like melody-wise.

[silent-storm]

two suggestions:

when learning a melody, learn it well enough so that you can close your eyes, place a finger anywhere on the guitar and play it, which means learning it in every key. This is very hard to begin with, but once you got about 10 down it becomes much easier. You gotta be able to sing them, or it's way more difficult.

another thing that works is play for 2 bars, rest for 2 bars, and keep going back and forth throughout the whole song. That way you gotta say something in 2 bars other then a bunch of notes and it gets you to think in set segments of time...ie phrases

[forgottenking2]

I find that the best way to work at phrasing is to play um... phrases (lol) Seriously, instead of blazing through a set of changes play ONE little phrase or motive (motiff if you wanna be fancy :D ) and just kinda stop and let it hang for a while (Imagine B. B. King sort of style) and then do it again. Try to hear an idea in your head first; that's gonna involve a start-stop process in the beginning but soon your mind will be able to catch up with your hands and you'll think as quick as you can play... it'll sort of become second nature.

I wish there was a specific exercise I could give you but really all there is is jamming with someone, or a cd. Copying other people's playing on the spot is good too, (like have someone play a phrase and you repeat it at once) because it simulates what goes on in your mind. You imagine (play) a phrase in your head and then you have to repeat it by ear.

Now for ear training and hand dexterity there ARE some great exercises but I don't think that was the point of your question.

I hope this helps.

[SyKrash]

There's alot of different excercises.

First off Scott Henderson's "melodic Phrasing" video talks eexactly about this.

Exercises (I use Band in a box, or record my own Guitar tracks on a tape recorder and solo over them with a metronome in the background of the recording).

1. Start every phrase on a certain beat, try just 1/8th note subdivisions first
eg. start every phrase on the '+' of 2.

2. Start Every Phrase on Beat 1, then repeat the lick on another part of a measure
eg. Start a lick on beat 1, then start the same phrase on beat 4 of the next bar.

3. Use only two strings at a time, when you get really good, start using two non-adjacent strings.

4. Pick a set number of Bars to improvise, then a sset number of bars to rest.
eg. solo for 2 bars, rest for 3.

5. Pick up a drum book, and solo using only certain rudiment or written rhythms.

Plenty more, but these will get you started. First try just a standard 12 bar Major Blues. Then a Standard 12 bar minor blues. Pick different keys every day.

I'm not sure if you're interested in changes, but if you are, then you can move on to 2-3 chord vamps. Like going from Gm chord to a Bm Chord. Then go to easy jazz standards. Then improve, all the while still doing the above.

Phrasing will only come if you practice it. Practicing improvising will only improve your ability to play the same licks you know. You really have to break apart everything and put it back together to get your phrasing to come up.

[satch_master]

I read a "Guitar World" artice by Kirk Hammet a few years ago and he said phrasing involves 2 components.

1) The speed that you play the particular phrase/notes/passage and the rest between notes.
2) How you actually play the phrase, i.e, the physical aspect of an individual's tone and the attack and vibrato and so on that they apply to the notes.

hope this can provide some insight!

[Mateo150]

the Henderson vids are good, I've watched through them but haven't lessoned with them yet. I'll get around to it eventually.

Its not the notes that give people trouble, its the space inbetween the notes.

[Thorsten]

I just noticed that on phrasing no two people are alike. A good friend of mine is an excellent blues player and his phrasing is just awesome. Though he´s just using the same pentatonic notes and scales that I would use, the licks and phrases he comes up with I never would think of. It´s somewhat the rythmic accentuation and note choice that´s competely different from what I would play. On the other hand I would play lines that he wouldn´t think of. I guess when improvising and building phrases that´s really when your personality comes through. I just follow my gut feelings and what ever comes out, comes out...

[tucker97325]

Funny this subject should come up now. I've been talking with UKRuss, and I know he's working on a new stricklys thread called something like "Strickly Phrasing". I know I'm looking forward to it.

[satch_master]

Sounds good tucker man, i can't wait!

[UKRuss]

Funny this subject should come up now. I've been talking with UKRuss, and I know he's working on a new stricklys thread called something like "Strickly Phrasing". I know I'm looking forward to it.

Uh oh! I better get to it then...;)

[Los Boleros]

Something occurred to me last week and it's such a Huge Idea for me that i have spent the past week wood-shedding this Idea. Now that it seems to have proven it-self, it's time to share the wealth.

When it comes to improving timing, I have always been pro-metrapgnome and against drum machines because the simplicity of a single beat forces you to keep better time. Or so I thought.

I have recently started working my excercises to not a metrognome but a Clave beat and found that my phrasing is improving real fast! I am sold on this new idea and only wish I had thought of it years ago. The Clave beat is at the heart of all Afro-Cuban Son and a big part of all Latin music in general. Excersising to a Clave will help you to phrase on the Clave beasts which are the coolest part of a beat. Even if hte music you are playing does not have a Clave Beat, if your phrasing is based on one, you will be a real koOol kat!

Anyway, Here is a site with some Clave examples (http://www.rhythmweb.com/shed/clave.htm) but you can program you drum machin to do the same. If you do nat have a Clave sound, then a rim shot or a Cow bell would work out.

Let me know what you think!!!!!

[tucker97325]

I think your idea has great merit. Afterall, the key to phrasing, I think, boils down to rhythm and timing.

The clave beats may work especially well for you, since they are, as you say, at the heart of Afro-Cuban music. (BTW, I was unable to hear the clave beats examples at the clave site you offered.) However, not everyone plays this style. That being said, I think the root of your discovery (to improvise using alternate rhythms with differing accents) is very sound. Whatever style someone may play, there are almost always rhythm variations, or accents, they can use as you have suggested.

I'm excited about this thread. I asked the questions months ago "Why is it when someone asks how to improve their improvisation, you guys are always so quick throw more notes and scales at them. When in many cases it's really their phrasing that requires the work?" I know I need help with both. :p

This is part of the reason I say "It ain't what you play man, it's how you play it."

[Mateo150]

for the stictly phrasing, I had an idea about making one but passed up on it as I knew it was probably a work in progress already. But an idea, limit the note selection. Only allow the use of 5 notes, 5 places on the fretboard. This will allow for variety as well, some might go pentatonic, some with 5 major scale tones, others with a different mix. Leaving an ambiguous maj/min backing would also help open it up.

As for the phrasing, the more you simulate a real playing environment while practicing, the better. This is generally true with human activities IMO, from sports to music to making speeches.

[tucker97325]

Uh oh! I better get to it then...;)
Oops, I didn't mean to put you on the spot regarding this "Strickly Phrasing" thing. I apologize. On the other hand, there seem to be some good ideas in this thread for how you might go about creating it. (Gee, and I thought I was the only one with these problems/questions.)

[UKRuss]

No problem. I should get off me arse and do it!

I'm assimilating all the ideas, but i think I like your original plan the most. Pick a lead line and ptab it. Provide the backing track, then lets hear everyone's pharsing of the same line.

simple but effective. Not what but how. Class.

[ncook]

No problem. I should get off me arse and do it!

I'm assimilating all the ideas, but i think I like your original plan the most. Pick a lead line and ptab it. Provide the backing track, then lets hear everyone's pharsing of the same line.

simple but effective. Not what but how. Class.
Man, that is an AWESOME idea.

[satch_master]

Wow, that is great idea Russ. So everyone will be playing the exact same notes but we will all have different interpretations of it when we execute it.
So get to work, make a backing track, a nice slow melody over the relevant chords and then a Ptab so we can play it over it. Man i can't wait! Try using some extended and technical jazz chords for this one.

[Los Boleros]

(BTW, I was unable to hear the clave beats examples at the clave site you offered.) "Try right clicking on it and select,"save target as". You will automatically start to think of phrasing when you hear these. good luck

[UKRuss]

**STOP PRESS**

Not my idea, definitely Friar's idea so we thank him for that, cheers Tuckerdude.

I'm not sure about the extended jazz chords...not really my forte. but we'll see what we come up with!