How to Warble? Teach me sensei.

[Bobman]

Okay so i've taken a long-hard look at Alexi Laiho clips, Steve Vai and Zakk Wylde. All of them seam to just do a dip the whammy bar and then release it, letting the tremelo go into a violent sonic-vibrato, also known as a warble... I think. But every time I do that I just get the results of just a regular dip, and if I try to do it harder, all the strings just end up vibrating, drownding out any possible recognition of a note. Currently im on a Kramer Vanguard with a Kramer immitation Floyde. I set the springs all in the middle (i.e. 0XXX0). The guitar is only a few days old so I figured perhaps I just needed to let my springs loosen up a bit, but not being able to warble is torturing me.

I always feel dumb asking anything about guitar, but this technique in particular has my mind in a vice! How to warble? Im a little slow at getting things at first so I'd highly appreciate a thorough explanation. Kudos to anyone who can teach me or clarify what i'm doing wrong =) .

PS. I did do a search on the forum and I didn't find anything conclusive. Did a few Google searches too, but to no avail. Sorry if this topic has been covered many, many times before.
-Bob

[UKRuss]

Bob, you should be able to just hit and release the bar and the springs will resonate the bar back and forth to get the warble.

I find i get a better warble if I take the bar vertically off the bottom of the guitar and then HO/PO with the left hand and then us th right hand to clip the bar continuously getting a prolonged warble.

If your bridge is a floating bridge, it sounds like it is, thsi really should be an automatic function as the tension creates he warble.

Dont dip the bar, just clip it as you play, like you are clipping someones ear, minor contact to the bar with your hand and it'l warble away.

[Bobman]

Yeah! I've tried "plucking" the bar, but it's almost as if theres too MUCH tension in the springs, preventing it from achieving any resonance at all! I've takena close look at the bar when I pluck it (pull it vertically/away from the pickups) and it does not vibrate at all, I tried using more force but the thing seams almost incapable of rocking back and forth, so it's like I said, I think it's too tight or something, or maybe Kramer immitation floyd's are weird? I dunno. But thanks on verifying the proper technique. Now I just need to find out how to make it rock back and forth a bit... a lot more.

[UKRuss]

It's a strange one because, the bridge is floating on the spring tension so it really should vibrate at least a little bit even if the springs are tight.

But then they cannot be that tight or it would lift the bridge past the horizontal balance point, or pull it under the body of the guitar.

The tension given by the six strings correctly tuned must be equal the tension of the springs underside the guitar (or a combination of the springs and the turning force applied to the pulling down of the bridge) in order for the bridge to "float" perfectly in the horizontal position so...that should be a fine platform for warbling.

i find more force means less warble btw. the best warble i get is when i just clip the end of the bar ever so slightly so that it sets off a warble, any more force effectively allows the hand in contact with the bar to be used to immediately dampen the warble.

you really just wanna catch it wth the slightest clip, so that bar doesnt even appear to dip first with the naked eye. i.e. you dont want your hand to be in contact with the bar for any period of time other than an immediate on/off contact to start the warble...anything longer than that and the warble dies.

[Bobman]

Perhaps an example of the type of warble im trying to achieve would help fish some explanations/instructions =) What i'm aiming for is something like Alexi Laiho's (children of bodom) disgusting warbles pulled off in any of the following solos:

Kissing The Shadows (he makes it sound like a 200lb insect was being tortured)
Toutch Like Angel of Death (live) (starts off with a dip, goes into a violent warble, then comes back with a 9th fret harmonic thingy)

I've done alot of exploring, I can get the dips and such, it's just making the tremelo rattle that's keeping me at bay, perhaps theres something wrong with my configuration? Do you have to have a specific spring configuration to get the most out of your warbles? Is it best on lower tunings?

[UKRuss]

I don't know much COB to be honest, but if it's warbling after a dip then is it possible he is doing it by actually using his hand to waggle the bar up and down in a violent way?

The warble for me is just the little kind of accent type warble that Vai uses quite alot.

I wonder if I can post a video of what i mean...

[Bobman]

you know thats a good point, he could just be violently abusing his wang bar. I thought about it, although it sounds alot like the warbles ive heard, he'd have to be doing it very fast, i'd love a verification on that though! But if thats not a warble then what is? Ive seen the word used so often I can only imagine how confusing it can get. Do you mean like an inverted dip? Making each of the accent notes sound a little more asian? Or a gurgling resonance that sounds like your guitar had too much to drink? If only I could toss some CoB up on here haha.

[UKRuss]

Well, it can be done by waggling the bar fast of course, i think it probably depends more on the variation from the played note. if there is a fast wobble but it is only slightly sharp an flat from the original note as it wobbles then it is just a flick on the bar.

The massive variation sharp and flat must be performed by actully waggling the bar up and down regardless of the sped of the wobble.

[Bobman]

Ok, i'll give that a whirl, it's not just massive vibratos as in pitch but speed in the vibration that he's achieving. I want to think it's easy and that i'm just doing something wrong but I don't want to underestimate the little guy. If only there were a way to just flick the wang bar and have it gurgle for a good while, otherwise I have alot of violent hand motions to master with my right hand... yeah... hah. Anyways, it's too early to hear myself over the noise my Floyd is making (it squeaks alot). So i'll give it another shot in a few hours, if you ever get the chance to listen to a CoB Tokyo Warhearts CD be sure to check out Toutch Like Angel Of Death (Live). The solo has a pretty intense whammy section. Thanks for all the help Russ!

[UKRuss]

OK, g'luck.

I have a video of something I think you mean, i cant post it here but if you wnt em to e-mail it to you I can do that.

lemme know.

[Bobman]

I'd love the video, you can email me or send it via AIM, im on for a few hours more, thanks again!

[Bizarro]

Zakk Wylde doesn't use a whammy bar. Any warble from him is from his hands.

A whammy needs a fine "knife edge" to warble. As time goes on this edge wears down and you can't warble anymore.

[Bobman]

Knife edge? I just tossed zakk in there to make it look like I did alot of research =P really i've only looked at Alexi and Vai. Whats a Knife Edge? Could it also be feedback that gives the warble the extra kick it needs to make the full gurgle effect?

[<KF>]

what string gauge are you using?

im not positive, but id assume these "flutters" would be easier to do with lighter strings, since the lighter the strings are, the looser the springs in the back will be.

[Bobman]

tuned 1 step down, DiAdarrio 9's :confused:

[Bizarro]

knife edge = the pivot point of the bridge.

[Bobman]

I figured it out! The tremelo has to be completely even/level with the rest of the guitar, the tension was too high since the guitar came with the screws that hold the spring hooks, screwed in too far. So I unscrewed them a little, retuned, rinse and repeated the process til it was perfectly level and bam, once I release the wang bar it was gurgling. I knew something was wrong/the springs were too tight. Welp, thanks to all that helped!

[UKRuss]

Cool.